AWD vs 4x4, need opinions

[Denali09Sierra]

Hey guys, 

 

Title sums it up. I bought my 09 Denali just before this last winter, and overall I was not too impressed. Between stabilitrac, traction control, blacklion h/t tires, and my first AWD vehicle I did not feel in control like I did in my 99 Ram 4x4. 

 

So my main question, is the AWD really that bad in these Denali's?

 

I haven't driven a newer 4x4 but I'm betting their better in snow and mud than my AWD has performed thus far. Im not used to getting stuck, and its happened to me 3 times so far. Last time was in mud, and I didnt even see the front wheels spinning.. Whats the deal? 

 

Sorry for the rant, but I'm seriously debating on whether I should sell for a 4x4, or just invest in better tires.. Which would cost me $1k and potentially still leave me dis-satisfied. 

 

TIA 

[swathdiver]

19 hours ago, Denali09Sierra said:

Hey guys, 

 

Title sums it up. I bought my 09 Denali just before this last winter, and overall I was not too impressed. Between stabilitrac, traction control, blacklion h/t tires, and my first AWD vehicle I did not feel in control like I did in my 99 Ram 4x4. 

 

So my main question, is the AWD really that bad in these Denali's?

 

I haven't driven a newer 4x4 but I'm betting their better in snow and mud than my AWD has performed thus far. Im not used to getting stuck, and its happened to me 3 times so far. Last time was in mud, and I didnt even see the front wheels spinning.. Whats the deal? 

 

Sorry for the rant, but I'm seriously debating on whether I should sell for a 4x4, or just invest in better tires.. Which would cost me $1k and potentially still leave me dis-satisfied. 

 

TIA 

AWD is great in those trucks.  Never heard of Blacklion tires before.  AWD Denali is not a 4x4 Ram and not going to behave like one.  It'll be better in many respects and worse in others.  

 

First thing I'd do if in your shoes is compare those tires against the industry leaders.

[Denali09Sierra]

22 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

AWD is great in those trucks.  Never heard of Blacklion tires before.  AWD Denali is not a 4x4 Ram and not going to behave like one.  It'll be better in many respects and worse in others.  

 

First thing I'd do if in your shoes is compare those tires against the industry leaders.

Dont get me wrong, for everyday driving the AWD is great. I did not feel great about it in deep snow though.. Which is why I had a 4x4 truck to begin with. I thought an AWD Denali would be an upgrade over a 4x4, but now I am unsure of that. However, in every other aspect the Denali is 1000x's better than my old Ram. 

 

The tires I have now were thrown on there from the dealer I bought the truck from. They got surprisingly good reviews online, but I had never heard of them before either. I'm just hoping to get some feedback from the GM community before I sink another $1000 into BFG T/A KO2s

[aseibel]

My opinion- you either have crappy bald tires that suck in snow, or there's something wrong with your drive system. I've never heard of those tires before either. Lets see if we can figure it out:

 

You got stuck 3 times? how deep was the snow? wet, ice underneath? off road?

You mentioned not seeing the front tires spin- Do you know that the front axle is engaged, or is there something wrong with your vehicle?

 

If you are in very slippery conditions and two wheels break loose (often opposite corners) then you are just screwed. I high centered my truck in deep heavy snow last winter and the only way I got out was dumping a bunch of sand on and around the tires, but that was with the OEM goodyear SRA's. Which look like similar tread to your blacklions when I googled them. If you are driving in deep snow that much, you probably should spring for some good A/T snow tires.

[Denali09Sierra]

27 minutes ago, aseibel said:

My opinion- you either have crappy bald tires that suck in snow, or there's something wrong with your drive system. I've never heard of those tires before either. Lets see if we can figure it out:

 

You got stuck 3 times? how deep was the snow? wet, ice underneath? off road?

You mentioned not seeing the front tires spin- Do you know that the front axle is engaged, or is there something wrong with your vehicle?

 

If you are in very slippery conditions and two wheels break loose (often opposite corners) then you are just screwed. I high centered my truck in deep heavy snow last winter and the only way I got out was dumping a bunch of sand on and around the tires, but that was with the OEM goodyear SRA's. Which look like similar tread to your blacklions when I googled them. If you are driving in deep snow that much, you probably should spring for some good A/T snow tires.

 

Thanks for your input! The tires I have now arent bald at all, perhaps they just suck more than what they have been rated for in snow, mud, and ice. Other than that they seem fine.

 

I believe my drivetrain is functioning properly, I think I'm going to put the truck on jackstands and see what the front/rears do under light throttle with ABS Enabled and disabled. I found out the hard way - the traction control/stabilitrac button in these trucks do absolutely nothing. 

 

First time I got stuck was heading down a slight incline. There was a layer of ice underneath the snow and I slid straight off the road into a bolder. Steering did absolutely nothing, and with my foot slammed on the brake pedal all it did was pulsate until the bolder stopped me, the woman, and our dog abrubtly in our tracks. Had to be pulled out.. My buddy with a 10' sierra 4x4 came with a plow and pulled me out, we couldnt believe how poorly the Denali reacted. I figured, crap luck with the Ice and the tires must be garbage. 

 

2nd time, I pulled into a unplowed parking lot in maybe 8" of snow and Immediately got stuck. I had to keep going over my tracks in reverse and drive until I could get back to the paved road. Sure - you could call it stupid on my part, but I know my old 4x4 would have made a playground of that parking lot that day. 

 

Last time was in the mud. Got stuck in a yard doing some landscaping. Rears were spinning like crazy, and although I couldnt see the front right tire under throttle, I know front left tire was not spinning whatsoever. Luckily I got out with a set of ramps I put in the mud rutts to help gain traction. 

 

 

[Wiggums]

A locking rear axle helps for me. That way, at least 3 are spinning. I thought AWD's would have 4 spinning?

My F-150 had electronic locking axle with 4x4 so at least 3 were spinning and I never got stuck anywhere even when a 3-ft snow hit Big Bear Mountain. The parking lot had about 1 1/2 foot of snow and I had no problem.

If your front wheels are not spinning, do you have the option to turn on 4x4? I have 4L and 4H, and also "Auto" - the Auto is reserved for snowy days.

[aseibel]

20 minutes ago, Denali09Sierra said:

I believe my drivetrain is functioning properly, I think I'm going to put the truck on jackstands and see what the front/rears do under light throttle with ABS Enabled and disabled. I found out the hard way - the traction control/stabilitrac button in these trucks do absolutely nothing. 

 

yeah, you definitely need to verify that everything is working properly/ the way you think it should. on jack stands you should be able to see all 4 wheels turning under throttle.

 

ABS should not affect the drive system's ability to spin the wheels, it only affects the reaction when you brake and are sliding, like the first time you got stuck.

 

Traction control/stabilitrack is more sophisticated and I think it only affects amount of power delivered to the wheels, so if you are flooring it and spinning tires, it should take power away, attempting to correct a skid. You should read your owner's manual to see what your model "should" be doing in that situation.

 

I think after some experimentation, you will either discover what the problem is, or figure out that something doesn't do what you thought it should (stabilitack)

[Denali09Sierra]

3 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

A locking rear axle helps for me. That way, at least 3 are spinning. I thought AWD's would have 4 spinning?

My F-150 had electronic locking axle with 4x4 so at least 3 were spinning and I never got stuck anywhere even when a 3-ft snow hit Big Bear Mountain. The parking lot had about 1 1/2 foot of snow and I had no problem.

If your front wheels are not spinning, do you have the option to turn on 4x4? I have 4L and 4H, and also "Auto" - the Auto is reserved for snowy days.

I do have the locking rear axle, those spin like crazy. Its got me wondering if the front end isnt doing its part, the tires are garbage, or maybe ABS prevents front wheels from spinning. 

 

The newer Denalis have selectable 4x4, the older ones like mine are full time AWD 

[aseibel]

5 minutes ago, Wiggums said:

A locking rear axle helps for me. That way, at least 3 are spinning. I thought AWD's would have 4 spinning?

another good question to consider. If you don't know what axle you have, it might be worth talking to a dealer who can run your VIN.

I don't think you can ever force all 4 tires to spin equally since there are basically 3 differentials in the system allowing power to be released at the wheel with the least traction. Unless you want it to turn like a tractor.

[Denali09Sierra]

2 minutes ago, aseibel said:

 

yeah, you definitely need to verify that everything is working properly/ the way you think it should. on jack stands you should be able to see all 4 wheels turning under throttle.

 

ABS should not affect the drive system's ability to spin the wheels, it only affects the reaction when you brake and are sliding, like the first time you got stuck.

 

Traction control/stabilitrack is more sophisticated and I think it only affects amount of power delivered to the wheels, so if you are flooring it and spinning tires, it should take power away, attempting to correct a skid. You should read your owner's manual to see what your model "should" be doing in that situation.

 

I think after some experimentation, you will either discover what the problem is, or figure out that something doesn't do what you thought it should (stabilitack)

I thought I read that with these trucks the ABS wheel speed sensors play a part in how the traction control/stabilitrac reacts? 

 

I know for sure if you pull the ABS fuse the traction control and stabilitrac 100% shut off, seen videos on youtube and even tried it on my truck.. The button on our consoles that "shuts them off," doesnt.. It basically retards the funtion of the systems from what Ive seen. 

 

I'll have to throw the truck on stands later (if its not downpouring) and see whats going on. 

[aseibel]

6 minutes ago, Denali09Sierra said:

I thought I read that with these trucks the ABS wheel speed sensors play a part in how the traction control/stabilitrac reacts? 

 

I know for sure if you pull the ABS fuse the traction control and stabilitrac 100% shut off, seen videos on youtube and even tried it on my truck.. The button on our consoles that "shuts them off," doesnt.. It basically retards the funtion of the systems from what Ive seen. 

 

I'll have to throw the truck on stands later (if its not downpouring) and see whats going on. 

I'm sure those systems do all work together. The stabilitrac system overrides the ABS function if it wants to slow down an individual wheel. I went from a truck without any of those features to my current 2015, so I don't know how your 09 works. I just don't think that's your problem when you got stuck in a parking lot, its more for saving you from skidding into a ditch.

 

That's why I like turning them off when I'm driving in snow, so I know what the heck my truck is doing. I find it much harder to drive with them on. My Daily is an 04 Pontiac without antilock brakes. I've never once felt like i needed or wanted them on there either. I know on my truck even if you "shut it off" like you said, that it automatically turns on again once you hit 35 mph.

 

maybe pull that fuse when you do your testing, just to verify all your wheels spin together without the nanny systems interfering.

[Denali09Sierra]

2 minutes ago, aseibel said:

I'm sure those systems do all work together. The stabilitrac system overrides the ABS function if it wants to slow down an individual wheel. I went from a truck without any of those features to my current 2015, so I don't know how your 09 works. I just don't think that's your problem when you got stuck in a parking lot, its more for saving you from skidding into a ditch.

 

That's why I like turning them off when I'm driving in snow, so I know what the heck my truck is doing. I find it much harder to drive with them on. My Daily is an 04 Pontiac without antilock brakes. I've never once felt like i needed or wanted them on there either. I know on my truck even if you "shut it off" like you said, that it automatically turns on again once you hit 35 mph.

 

maybe pull that fuse when you do your testing, just to verify all your wheels spin together without the nanny systems interfering.

Im in the same boat as you, my 99' Ram had none of the newer features this truck does.. And like you, I can't stand them. Thanks to others here on the forum, I found a way to run a switch to the cab to temporarily turn off those features.. But I have yet to test it in snow, and wont be able to until next year. 

 

I'll definitely check out how the drivetrain is doing today or tomorrow, it was pretty embarrassing getting stuck in that parking lot I've got to say. Im hoping it will be "problem solved" with a nice set of tires, I just dont want to dump $1k to be disappointed again. 

[17SierraDenali]

On 4/8/2019 at 1:36 PM, Denali09Sierra said:

Hey guys, 

 

Title sums it up. I bought my 09 Denali just before this last winter, and overall I was not too impressed. Between stabilitrac, traction control, blacklion h/t tires, and my first AWD vehicle I did not feel in control like I did in my 99 Ram 4x4. 

 

So my main question, is the AWD really that bad in these Denali's?

 

I haven't driven a newer 4x4 but I'm betting their better in snow and mud than my AWD has performed thus far. Im not used to getting stuck, and its happened to me 3 times so far. Last time was in mud, and I didnt even see the front wheels spinning.. Whats the deal? 

 

Sorry for the rant, but I'm seriously debating on whether I should sell for a 4x4, or just invest in better tires.. Which would cost me $1k and potentially still leave me dis-satisfied. 

 

TIA 

I currently have a 2017 Sierra Denali 4x4, and previously had a 2008 Sierra Denali AWD.  I would recommend that you read through my write up on the www.denalitrucks.com forum (my user name is the same) http://www.denalitrucks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18180 as I think it will be helpful for you to understand the way your AWD system actually works.  Based on your description I do not think that there is anything mechanically wrong with your truck. 

 

I can tell you having owned both that you cannot compare my 2017 Sierra Denali 4x4 to my 2008 Sierra Denali AWD in the snow or mud.  I too got stuck on several occasions with my 2008, and, like you, my front wheels were not spinning and/or would spin very little when I was stuck.  My 2017 on the other hand has been EXCELLENT in both the snow and mud and I have never gotten close to getting stuck with it and I’ve had it in some pretty deep snow.  The selectable (2H, Auto, 4H, 4L) 4WD in my 2017 is in everyway superior to the AWD that I had in my 2008.

[Denali09Sierra]

39 minutes ago, 2008Denali said:

I currently have a 2017 Sierra Denali 4x4, and previously had a 2008 Sierra Denali AWD.  I would recommend that you read through my write up on the www.denalitrucks.com forum (my user name is the same) http://www.denalitrucks.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18180 as I think it will be helpful for you to understand the way your AWD system actually works.  Based on your description I do not think that there is anything mechanically wrong with your truck. 

 

I can tell you having owned both that you cannot compare my 2017 Sierra Denali 4x4 to my 2008 Sierra Denali AWD in the snow or mud.  I too got stuck on several occasions with my 2008, and, like you, my front wheels were not spinning and/or would spin very little when I was stuck.  My 2017 on the other hand has been EXCELLENT in both the snow and mud and I have never gotten close to getting stuck with it and I’ve had it in some pretty deep snow.  The selectable (2H, Auto, 4H & 4L) true 4WD in my 2017 is in everywhere superior to the AWD that I had in my 2008.

THANK YOU! 

 

This has been my feeling about the truck ever since I drove it in the snow. Unfortunately I can't see your post on the other forum unless I sign up for it.. Sounds like it might be worth it though, I'll have to do that later tonight. 

 

Man that is so aggrevating though, I still owe a sizeable amount on this truck and I really dont wanna deal with the whole hassle of selling this truck for another one.. Its too bad cause in every other way its an awesome truck. 

[17SierraDenali]

2 hours ago, Denali09Sierra said:

THANK YOU! 

 

This has been my feeling about the truck ever since I drove it in the snow. Unfortunately I can't see your post on the other forum unless I sign up for it.. Sounds like it might be worth it though, I'll have to do that later tonight. 

 

Man that is so aggrevating though, I still owe a sizeable amount on this truck and I really dont wanna deal with the whole hassle of selling this truck for another one.. Its too bad cause in every other way its an awesome truck. 

I hear you, I really liked my 2008 Sierra Denali as well with my only real complaint with that truck being the poor (IMO) AWD system.  I would highly recommend that you sign up with the other forum so that you can read my posts related to this AWD system.  I know you'll find it helpful as I went through 3 or 4 separate occasions with bringing it back to the dealer for this very complaint only to finally find out the truck was operating exactly as designed.  Needless to say, I was quite disappointed in finding this out right after I had bought it in 2009.  Best of luck, you still have an awesome truck!