AWD vs 4x4, need opinions

[ftwhite]

I am not positive on the transfer case in the 2008 but if it is like the awd systems in Denalis I have read about, you basically have three open diffs. One on each axle and one in the center. The center is geared to split about 60-40 front to back. Just like any open diff, spin is your enemy because that's where all your power will go. The only way to control that spin in an open diff is brakes. So the ABS watches for it, and applys the brakes to keep that wheel from eating up all the engine power/torque. If there is hardly any traction anywhere, brakes probably stop the fronts from spinning. you basically have 2wd. Without some sort of limited slip locker in the rear, you hope both rears have at least some traction. Else, your stuck because power will end up at one spinning rear wheel. If you have a limited slip in the rear, applying some manual braking while the wheel slips can help the rear axle lock up to split the torque to both rear wheels. Only traction at the front will send power back up there. It sucks.

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[swathdiver]

11 hours ago, Denali09Sierra said:

Dont get me wrong, for everyday driving the AWD is great. I did not feel great about it in deep snow though.. Which is why I had a 4x4 truck to begin with. I thought an AWD Denali would be an upgrade over a 4x4, but now I am unsure of that. However, in every other aspect the Denali is 1000x's better than my old Ram. 

 

The tires I have now were thrown on there from the dealer I bought the truck from. They got surprisingly good reviews online, but I had never heard of them before either. I'm just hoping to get some feedback from the GM community before I sink another $1000 into BFG T/A KO2s

A friend of mine had a Duramax 4x4 with Toyo highway tires on it.  Going down a trail, he had to engage his 4WD while I could stay in 2WD as my tires are KO2s.  

 

The front differential is open and does not lock up or have posi/limited slip.  Pressing the Traction Control  button turns just that feature off.  But hold it down for 5 seconds and both TCS and StabiliTrak systems are turned off.

 

A fella who just bought an AWD Denali had the same issues as you in the snow over on the Tahoe Yukon forum but I forget the outcome of his woes. 

[Denali09Sierra]

12 hours ago, ftwhite said:

I am not positive on the transfer case in the 2008 but if it is like the awd systems in Denalis I have read about, you basically have three open diffs. One on each axle and one in the center. The center is geared to split about 60-40 front to back. Just like any open diff, spin is your enemy because that's where all your power will go. The only way to control that spin in an open diff is brakes. So the ABS watches for it, and applys the brakes to keep that wheel from eating up all the engine power/torque. If there is hardly any traction anywhere, brakes probably stop the fronts from spinning. you basically have 2wd. Without some sort of limited slip locker in the rear, you hope both rears have at least some traction. Else, your stuck because power will end up at one spinning rear wheel. If you have a limited slip in the rear, applying some manual braking while the wheel slips can help the rear axle lock up to split the torque to both rear wheels. Only traction at the front will send power back up there. It sucks.

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Great. That sucks ass. And that is essentially whats happened to me everytime I have gotten stuck. I spent hours researching the AWD Denali before I got it, but I think most of whats out there was feedback about AWD in general.. The Denalis do not compare to the Subarus, Honda's, etc. 

 

As far as stabilitrac and traction control go, they have really irritated me as well. Its not like my 06' Mustang is.. You hit the traction control button and its actually OFF. It may not be the same for every year, but try jacking up your rear ends (2H obviously) with the ST/TC "disabled" and rev it up.. You might be surprised at what you see. 

 

I think I may have to sell for a 4x4. I'm the kind of guy that enjoys driving (I drive a tanker for a living), and I need a truck that can get me places. I've owned a 4x4 my whole life, think thats what made it real hard for me to come around on AWD to begin with. Unfortunately I cant afford to upgrade, Ive been thinking an older duramax 2500 4x4 might be my next vehicle. 

 

 

[Denali09Sierra]

17 hours ago, 2008Denali said:

I hear you, I really liked my 2008 Sierra Denali as well with my only real complaint with that truck being the poor (IMO) AWD system.  I would highly recommend that you sign up with the other forum so that you can read my posts related to this AWD system.  I know you'll find it helpful as I went through 3 or 4 separate occasions with bringing it back to the dealer for this very complaint only to finally find out the truck was operating exactly as designed.  Needless to say, I was quite disappointed in finding this out right after I had bought it in 2009.  Best of luck, you still have an awesome truck!

I got on denalitrucks and read most of your forum, you got quite the feedback from a lot of members!.. And you definitely experienced the same thing I am now. 

 

I wish I had read that before I went out and bought this truck.. What did you end up doing? You obviously upgraded at some point, but did you live with it, get better tires, or sell it? Appreciate the input - from you and the other members thus far. 

 

It might make sense for me to get an older 4x4 for a few years anyway.. I just bought my first house (Im 26) and cash got real tight - real quick! Only reason I sold my Dodge was I got sick of working on it all the time.. I rebuilt the engine, trans, and the last straw was the differentials producing metal shavings. At least with the Denali all Ive done is brakes and fluid changes! Thanks again

[17SierraDenali]

36 minutes ago, Denali09Sierra said:

I got on denalitrucks and read most of your forum, you got quite the feedback from a lot of members!.. And you definitely experienced the same thing I am now. 

 

I wish I had read that before I went out and bought this truck.. What did you end up doing? You obviously upgraded at some point, but did you live with it, get better tires, or sell it? Appreciate the input - from you and the other members thus far. 

 

It might make sense for me to get an older 4x4 for a few years anyway.. I just bought my first house (Im 26) and cash got real tight - real quick! Only reason I sold my Dodge was I got sick of working on it all the time.. I rebuilt the engine, trans, and the last straw was the differentials producing metal shavings. At least with the Denali all Ive done is brakes and fluid changes! Thanks again

Glad to hear you signed up for the other forum and read through my posting (it was far too much to try and copy/post here).  As frustrated as I was with the AWD in my 2008 I did end keeping that truck until I upgraded to my 2017.  I ended up putting Michelin LTX MS 2’s on that truck and that did help some vs. the Pirellis I had on it initially.  After really understanding the way the AWD system worked I just knew what to expect out of it and “accepted” its limitations even though I always was very unhappy with its performance the snow.  I will tell you that it did help some with applying the emergency brake slightly to redirect power back to the front wheels when I started to become stuck.  This was a recommendation given to me by a Senior Tech at GM.  Also disabling the Traction Control/StabiliTrak systems helped a bit too.  The biggest issue by far for me with the AWD in my 2008 was when you became stuck, you were pretty much screwed at that point.  When you became stuck, at least in my case, the power would always only go to the rear wheels.  My 2008 did have the G80 locking rear differential, so that helped, but to me it really was no more than a 2WD truck when you actually became stuck due to the way the AWD system works.  I can tell you that your AWD truck will never perform the way a 4WD truck does.  I’ve owned them both and can say that with absolute certainty.  

 

As I said in my earlier post, my 2017 Sierra Denali 4WD is truly amazing in the snow.  If you have already had issues with getting stuck with your ’09, that will likely continue to be an issue for you even if you do upgrade to better tires…etc.  It honestly may make the most sense for you to just get out of the truck and get a true 4WD if this is a real concern for you.  Best of luck again, and if you have any additional questions, please let me know.

[MaverickZ71]

Forgive my Denali ignorance, but isn't there such a thing as a 2WD Denali?  You sure you don't have one?

 

For the other 4WD experts on here, how would an AWD Denali differ from a Sierra SLT 4WD with the transfer case selector switch set to Auto 4WD? 

 

I must admit that my '09 Silverado has been an awesome snowmobile.  I have driven through 15+ inches of snow with my Silverado set to Auto 4WD and never had any problems.  Never gotten stuck.  Front plastic air dam was blading the top of the snow; just kept going.  Drove on black ice and didn't slide into anything.  With the factory original Bridgestone Dueler A/T RH-S tires, stock size.  No lift.  Truck has only been in 4WD Hi a couple of times--didn't really need to, and has never been in 4WD Lo except as a test when it was new.  Followed the HUMVEE guys around in the snow on the Army base where I work, and they were amazed that I didn't get stuck.  

[KARNUT]

I’ve spent half my life off road for my work on pipeline and utility ROWs. I wasn’t looking for recreational 4WDing, I did in counter challenging terrain almost daily. The trucks I had with the auto 4WD option I found was more than adequate. The only time I used low range was in mountainous terrain for creeping purposes.


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[Denali09Sierra]

1 hour ago, 2008Denali said:

Glad to hear you signed up for the other forum and read through my posting (it was far too much to try and copy/post here).  As frustrated as I was with the AWD in my 2008 I did end keeping that truck until I upgraded to my 2017.  I ended up putting Michelin LTX MS 2’s on that truck and that did help some vs. the Pirellis I had on it initially.  After really understanding the way the AWD system worked I just knew what to expect out of it and “accepted” its limitations even though I always was very unhappy with its performance the snow.  I will tell you that it did help some with applying the emergency brake slightly to redirect power back to the front wheels when I started to become stuck.  This was a recommendation given to me by a Senior Tech at GM.  Also disabling the Traction Control/StabiliTrak systems helped a bit too.  The biggest issue by far for me with the AWD in my 2008 was when you became stuck, you were pretty much screwed at that point.  When you became stuck, at least in my case, the power would always only go to the rear wheels.  My 2008 did have the G80 locking rear differential, so that helped, but to me it really was no more than a 2WD truck when you actually became stuck due to the way the AWD system works.  I can tell you that your AWD truck will never perform the way a 4WD truck does.  I’ve owned them both and can say that with absolute certainty.  

 

As I said in my earlier post, my 2017 Sierra Denali 4WD is truly amazing in the snow.  If you have already had issues with getting stuck with your ’09, that will likely continue to be an issue for you even if you do upgrade to better tires…etc.  It honestly may make the most sense for you to just get out of the truck and get a true 4WD if this is a real concern for you.  Best of luck again, and if you have any additional questions, please let me know.

Thanks a bunch. Im surprised you were able to stand it for that long. For what Im paying for this truck, it doesnt make sense for me to keep it if it doesnt do what I need it to.. Which is be a reliable snow beast in the winter time. *SIGH* Im gonna miss the 6.2L, it really is a sweet truck otherwise. 

[Denali09Sierra]

1 hour ago, MaverickZ71 said:

Forgive my Denali ignorance, but isn't there such a thing as a 2WD Denali?  You sure you don't have one?

 

For the other 4WD experts on here, how would an AWD Denali differ from a Sierra SLT 4WD with the transfer case selector switch set to Auto 4WD? 

There are 2wd Denalis, mine isnt one of them. I double checked from the (subaru) dealer before I bought it to make sure there was a front drivetrain. 

 

As stated about the AWD Denali, it is highly based upon ABS and wheel slippage before power is/isnt distributed.. Which is why it sucks. If it was a true 60-40 split, it would work the nuts! You would think 4WD Auto would function similarly, but clearly it functions better than my AWD does. It makes perfect sense that when in full time 4wd it would be superior to my trucks AWD system - In 4wd the driveshaft is always spinning and supplying power to one of the front wheels. Mechanical vs "brains" 

[17SierraDenali]

Duplicate entry

[17SierraDenali]

16 minutes ago, Denali09Sierra said:

Thanks a bunch. Im surprised you were able to stand it for that long. For what Im paying for this truck, it doesnt make sense for me to keep it if it doesnt do what I need it to.. Which is be a reliable snow beast in the winter time. *SIGH* Im gonna miss the 6.2L, it really is a sweet truck otherwise. 

Yeah, in retrospect, I’m actually surprised that I ended up keeping it as long as I did.  I loved the truck in every other way minus the AWD, so I just dealt with it.  I defiantly contemplated on several occasions getting rid of it, but the truck was otherwise so trouble free I just hung on to it.  I will tell you that there is ZERO chance I would have gotten another Sierra Denali 1500 had they not moved from the AWD to the traditional 4WD back in 2014.  Offload it now as it’s clear it’s not the snow beast you’re ultimately looking for.

[17SierraDenali]

1 hour ago, Denali09Sierra said:

There are 2wd Denalis, mine isnt one of them. I double checked from the (subaru) dealer before I bought it to make sure there was a front drivetrain. 

 

As stated about the AWD Denali, it is highly based upon ABS and wheel slippage before power is/isnt distributed.. Which is why it sucks. If it was a true 60-40 split, it would work the nuts! You would think 4WD Auto would function similarly, but clearly it functions better than my AWD does. It makes perfect sense that when in full time 4wd it would be superior to my trucks AWD system - In 4wd the driveshaft is always spinning and supplying power to one of the front wheels. Mechanical vs "brains" 

I’m by no means an expert here, but what I can say is that the AWD in my 2008 Sierra Denali was defiantly not the same as the “Auto” setting in my 4WD 2017 Sierra Denali.  The difference in the two is that with the AWD it can redistribute ALL of the wheel power to the rear wheels only which defeats the whole purpose of AWD to me.  In the Auto setting in my 2017 Sierra Denali it functions very similar to 4H in that if it detects wheel slippage it will engage the front axle and will continuously provide power to one of the front wheels until the slippage is no longer present, the Auto setting works excellent.  With the AWD Sierra Denali it has a mind of it’s own in terms of which wheel(s) it decides to send it’s power to, and every time I got stuck with it power would always only go to the rear wheels with very little power (if any) going to the fronts. 

[Denali09Sierra]

36 minutes ago, 2008Denali said:

Yeah, in retrospect, I’m actually surprised that I ended up keeping it as long as I did.  I loved the truck in every other way minus the AWD, so I just dealt with it.  I defiantly contemplated on several occasions getting rid of it, but the truck was otherwise so trouble free I just hung on to it.  I will tell you that there is ZERO chance I would have gotten another Sierra Denali 1500 had they not moved from the AWD to the traditional 4WD back in 2014.  Offload it now as it’s clear it’s not the snow beast you’re ultimately looking for.

It is a glaring sign when you think about it - if the AWD was such a good design they would have stuck with it.. I'll be listing this truck soon and looking for another, possibly trade it in. What sucks is I've always ran an older truck, and when I bought this "new" truck I had every intention on running it into the ground. Oh well, Thanks again! 

[swathdiver]

You could always convert from AWD to 4WD, transfer case, front differential, Dash knobs and programming and voila!  There were more than a few 6.2 4WD Tahoes (2009) and a few 6.2 4WD Yukon XLs (2010) built and you can replicate that.

[Denali09Sierra]

1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

You could always convert from AWD to 4WD, transfer case, front differential, Dash knobs and programming and voila!  There were more than a few 6.2 4WD Tahoes (2009) and a few 6.2 4WD Yukon XLs (2010) built and you can replicate that.

I had wondered that myself initally.. I'll look into it, but more than likely it's going to be quite expensive. It would be pretty awesome though.