Covid19 Spare time

KARNUT · February 18, 2023

49 minutes ago, Donstar said:

I ride a motorcycle/trike for the enjoyment. (wind in my face and shifting gears ). Like most boomers, I had some youth related experience with bikes, but didn't get my endorsement and first bike until I was 60. It goes on a trailer for service as the distance to a dealer is beyond my comfort level. This will not preclude going electric. A towing requirement of over 2k lbs. will be needed but this is inherent with any EV I have in mind or am anticipating.

Keep an eye on the Ford lightning. Apparently it’s the right name. Just keep it away from the house

Donstar · February 22, 2023

Past few weeks, I've enjoyed some nice rides around town on my Harley "tuk tuk". Yesterday, we dried our laundry on the clothesline. This morning, I need to fire up my snow thrower. We'll be Skyping my daughter in a couple of hours who has been living in the aftermath of cyclone Gabrielle. Every morning lately has presented new opportunities and unexpected surprises. Yesterday, I heard two popular hosts on XM spewing the horrors of the Covid mandates that were imposed in 2020. Their points were made early in the broadcast but rather than going on to better options for next time they kept beating up the "mandates". Regardless, the covid time is a valuable experience and has taught me to be much more self sufficient and prepared. My snowblower is next to my leaf blower which are both beside my trike c/w extra fuel!

KARNUT · February 22, 2023

2 minutes ago, Donstar said:

Past few weeks, I've enjoyed some nice rides around town on my Harley "tuk tuk". Yesterday, we dried our laundry on the clothesline. This morning, I need to fire up my snow thrower. We'll be Skyping my daughter in a couple of hours who has been living in the aftermath of cyclone Gabrielle. Every morning lately has presented new opportunities and unexpected surprises. Yesterday, I heard two popular hosts on XM spewing the horrors of the Covid mandates that were imposed in 2020. Their points were made early in the broadcast but rather than going on to better options for next time they kept beating up the "mandates". Regardless, the covid time is a valuable experience and has taught me to be much more self sufficient and prepared. My snowblower is next to my leaf blower which are both beside my trike c/w extra fuel!

Hindsight is always 20/20. In saying that. There’re were vast differences in how it was handled and there should be honest comparisons. There wouldn’t be of course. So you have to be diligent. Even now there’s differences on who should get vaccinated and who shouldn’t. The possible side effects aren’t mentioned much. Most medications advertised on TV have chilling list of side effects. Honest decisions can be made. My blood pressure medicine for instance. I’d be dead now without them. And I do experience some side effects. Mostly fatigue in the afternoon and enhanced low blood sugar. It took me 30 years to manage that. So if they’re saying there’s little to no side effects. There’re fibbers.

Grumpy Bear · February 22, 2023

2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Hindsight is always 20/20. In saying that. There’re were vast differences in how it was handled and there should be honest comparisons. There wouldn’t be of course. So you have to be diligent. Even now there’s differences on who should get vaccinated and who shouldn’t. The possible side effects aren’t mentioned much. Most medications advertised on TV have chilling list of side effects. Honest decisions can be made. My blood pressure medicine for instance. I’d be dead now without them. And I do experience some side effects. Mostly fatigue in the afternoon and enhanced low blood sugar. It took me 30 years to manage that. So if they’re saying there’s little to no side effects. There’re fibbers.

I NEVER thought I would be in any kind of agreement with you on this topic. But you've made it easy. What a wonderfully BALANCED view.

All medication should be viewed from a risk/reward perspective.

Early on this got out of hand in a heartbeat. On BOTH sides.

KARNUT · February 22, 2023

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I NEVER thought I would be in any kind of agreement with you on this topic. But you've made it easy. What a wonderfully BALANCED view.

All medication should be viewed from a risk/reward perspective.

Early on this got out of hand in a heartbeat. On BOTH sides.

Fear does that

Grumpy Bear · February 23, 2023

22 hours ago, KARNUT said:

Fear does that

Seems @customboss is confused. How about an example then.

My daughter-in-law is having a run it with breast cancer. They've run test galore on her to determine the best path forward which turned out to be surgery followed by targeted radiation and hormone therapy. They choose hormone over chemo on statistics and side effects. She has a 5% chance of it coming back with the current treatment plan and a 4% chance if they use chemo instead of hormone but there is a drastic increase in liver issues using chemo. Possible side effects determined the final outcome. This isn't that hard.

People are getting to be about medicine like they are about war. They demand the win and demand zero downside too. Unreasonable expectations that are common to this generation and a few preceding it. I demand bacon but don't want to kill a pig logic is rampant.

Most of the side effects of the top two Covid vaccines were no worse than any other deep tissue injection. MOST. For a few, a very SMALL FEW some heart issues and a few had allergenic reactions. Very early, first few months, 50% of those contracting COVID-19 died. Today that number is about 1%. Thanks to vaccines and other treatments that were developed along the way. And isolation until those tools were in play.

It is a reasonable course of action to ask relevant questions and weigh all evidence. What was unreasonable was mass disinformation and drawing conclusions based on 3 or 4 outcomes in a sample of tens of millions of doses. Using treatments for political gain.

Let's game theory this. 3 in say 50 million death outcome side effects taking it verses a 50% loss of life without. Even now, and I speak only for myself, even at the current rate of death, 1%, the rate of side effects is still in the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the cases. I'll stay current until the odds change AND I will not force my choice on anyone else.

KARNUT · February 23, 2023

6 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Seems @customboss is confused. How about an example then.

My daughter-in-law is having a run it with breast cancer. They've run test galore on her to determine the best path forward which turned out to be surgery followed by targeted radiation and hormone therapy. They choose hormone over chemo on statistics and side effects. She has a 5% chance of it coming back with the current treatment plan and a 4% chance if they use chemo instead of hormone but there is a drastic increase in liver issues using chemo. Possible side effects determined the final outcome. This isn't that hard.

People are getting to be about medicine like they are about war. They demand the win and demand zero downside too. Unreasonable expectations that are common to this generation and a few preceding it. I demand bacon but don't want to kill a pig logic is rampant.

Most of the side effects of the top two Covid vaccines were no worse than any other deep tissue injection. MOST. For a few, a very SMALL FEW some heart issues and a few had allergenic reactions. Very early, first few months, 50% of those contracting COVID-19 died. Today that number is about 1%. Thanks to vaccines and other treatments that were developed along the way. And isolation until those tools were in play.

It is a reasonable course of action to ask relevant questions and weigh all evidence. What was unreasonable was mass disinformation and drawing conclusions based on 3 or 4 outcomes in a sample of tens of millions of doses. Using treatments for political gain.

Let's game theory this. 3 in say 50 million death outcome side effects taking it verses a 50% loss of life without. Even now, and I speak only for myself, even at the current rate of death, 1%, the rate of side effects is still in the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the cases. I'll stay current until the odds change AND I will not force my choice on anyone else.

Prayers for the first part. Been there, most people have. I’m going to pass on the second. I don’t need that debate again.

customboss · February 23, 2023

5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Seems @customboss is confused. How about an example then.

My daughter-in-law is having a run it with breast cancer. They've run test galore on her to determine the best path forward which turned out to be surgery followed by targeted radiation and hormone therapy. They choose hormone over chemo on statistics and side effects. She has a 5% chance of it coming back with the current treatment plan and a 4% chance if they use chemo instead of hormone but there is a drastic increase in liver issues using chemo. Possible side effects determined the final outcome. This isn't that hard.

People are getting to be about medicine like they are about war. They demand the win and demand zero downside too. Unreasonable expectations that are common to this generation and a few preceding it. I demand bacon but don't want to kill a pig logic is rampant.

Most of the side effects of the top two Covid vaccines were no worse than any other deep tissue injection. MOST. For a few, a very SMALL FEW some heart issues and a few had allergenic reactions. Very early, first few months, 50% of those contracting COVID-19 died. Today that number is about 1%. Thanks to vaccines and other treatments that were developed along the way. And isolation until those tools were in play.

It is a reasonable course of action to ask relevant questions and weigh all evidence. What was unreasonable was mass disinformation and drawing conclusions based on 3 or 4 outcomes in a sample of tens of millions of doses. Using treatments for political gain.

Let's game theory this. 3 in say 50 million death outcome side effects taking it verses a 50% loss of life without. Even now, and I speak only for myself, even at the current rate of death, 1%, the rate of side effects is still in the fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the cases. I'll stay current until the odds change AND I will not force my choice on anyone else.

Sorry for your DIL struggles. Vaccines save lives for the overall good. If you have underlying conditions thats where the pros come in and decide with the patient. Not some blanket post about minority or fractions of a minority driving decisionmaking. Not confused just know where you stand on vax overall thus the mark made. Few understand statistics let alone logic and when it comes to medicine I leave it to the pros and get vaxed unless I am told not to by a pro. Majority do well to get vaxxed. Why in the US MILITARY goining overseas we got vaxxed and had no choice.

KARNUT · February 23, 2023

I love it when people cherry pick information on medical issues. Even the CDC has pulled back on the effectiveness of the vaccines. It may be like the flu vaccine with limited effectiveness. My take is an honest assessment of who really needs it and the side effects. Not oh yeah just take it there’s no harm. That’s just not the case. There’s been well regarded doctors who say caution is advised. As with any medication caution is advised.

Grumpy Bear · February 24, 2023

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

I love it when people cherry pick information on medical issues. Even the CDC has pulled back on the effectiveness of the vaccines. It may be like the flu vaccine with limited effectiveness. My take is an honest assessment of who really needs it and the side effects. Not oh yeah just take it there’s no harm. That’s just not the case. There’s been well regarded doctors who say caution is advised. As with any medication caution is advised.

And we were doing so well...... :sigh:

1 hour ago, customboss said:

Sorry for your DIL struggles. Vaccines save lives for the overall good. If you have underlying conditions thats where the pros come in and decide with the patient. Not some blanket post about minority or fractions of a minority driving decisionmaking. Not confused just know where you stand on vax overall thus the mark made. Few understand statistics let alone logic and when it comes to medicine I leave it to the pros and get vaxed unless I am told not to by a pro. Majority do well to get vaxxed. Why in the US MILITARY goining overseas we got vaxxed and had no choice.

Now this is the sort of statement that happens when you hear the words and don't listen to their meanings.

Where I stand is; I have them all and will continue too. I'm old, I'm overweight and I smoked for 35 plus years. A fever from the vaccine or a sore arm is at the bottom of my concerns. I'm more likely to succumb to the virus than die of some heart issue that happens in .0003% of the cases.

KARNUT · February 24, 2023

24 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

And we were doing so well......

Now this is the sort of statement that happens when you hear the words and don't listen to their meanings.

Where I stand is; I have them all and will continue too. I'm old, I'm overweight and I smoked for 35 plus years. A fever from the vaccine or a sore arm is at the bottom of my concerns. I'm more likely to succumb to the virus than die of some heart issue that happens in .0003% of the cases.

The flu vaccine is recommended for older and at risk people. The COVID vaccine is recommended for everyone even the very young and healthy. That’s where most side effects are showing up. If people haven’t seen those reports they’re not researching enough. I saw reports on the news on just that tonight. OH well I tried. It will bare out eventually. I give up. As for me I did 2 shots and got it anyway when they said I wouldn’t. I actually had it worse than my wife who got no vaccine. Fool me once….

customboss · February 24, 2023

16 hours ago, KARNUT said:

The flu vaccine is recommended for older and at risk people. The COVID vaccine is recommended for everyone even the very young and healthy. That’s where most side effects are showing up. If people haven’t seen those reports they’re not researching enough. I saw reports on the news on just that tonight. OH well I tried. It will bare out eventually. I give up. As for me I did 2 shots and got it anyway when they said I wouldn’t. I actually had it worse than my wife who got no vaccine. Fool me once….

To be fully protected from Covid as of 9/2022 a normal healthy person needed 2 vaxes with 3 boosters.....so you weren't fully protected. YES there are people who can't take the vax or at least higher levels of it but you just shared that you got it but you weren't fully protected. Another point is that because virus's mutate. They do even more so when many refuse vaxes so they become mass human petry dishes of mutation that even the FULLY Vaxed can get a mutation that pharma could not cover. From what I read and understand being vaxed saves the person from severe aspects of infection so its a benefit that even with ONLY 2 shots it probably limited your symptoms and suffering in spite of your opinion. Not saying I am right, just sharing what is more broad based than sharing the fact after 5 shots we have had no infection. This fall or summer maybe there will be a more broad based vax that is good for a year. We will take it.

customboss · February 24, 2023

16 hours ago, KARNUT said:

The flu vaccine is recommended for older and at risk people.

Wrong. Its recommended for everyone by public health folks in our nation so we don't help mutate the flu virus's even faster. Man you need to go back to biology class you must have slept through......LOL

Grumpy Bear · February 24, 2023

31 minutes ago, customboss said:

..........because virus's mutate. They do even more so when many refuse vaxes so they become mass human Petry dishes of mutation that even the FULLY Vaxed can get a mutation that pharma could not cover.

And there it is.

:uhoh:

KARNUT · February 24, 2023

1 hour ago, customboss said:

To be fully protected from Covid as of 9/2022 a normal healthy person needed 2 vaxes with 3 boosters.....so you weren't fully protected. YES there are people who can't take the vax or at least higher levels of it but you just shared that you got it but you weren't fully protected. Another point is that because virus's mutate. They do even more so when many refuse vaxes so they become mass human petry dishes of mutation that even the FULLY Vaxed can get a mutation that pharma could not cover. From what I read and understand being vaxed saves the person from severe aspects of infection so its a benefit that even with ONLY 2 shots it probably limited your symptoms and suffering in spite of your opinion. Not saying I am right, just sharing what is more broad based than sharing the fact after 5 shots we have had no infection. This fall or summer maybe there will be a more broad based vax that is good for a year. We will take it.

At the time it was one shot 1 booster. They kept changing when it wasn’t as effective as originally suggested. The rest of your theories I just ignore. I’ll go with the John Hopkins Doctors as well as others who aren’t censored anymore for not following government mandates.

Edited February 24, 2023 by KARNUT