'02 4L60E Rebuild- what kit?

[Idahoan6-0]

I currently have an '02 Sierra with the 6.0L and the 4L60E. Tranny started shifting weird when going to overdrive, figured I need to do a rebuild sooner than later. I started looking at master kits, and they're all labelled "stage 2 heavy duty", "stage 3", "stage 4", and even "stage 5". I've heard that this is the shifting hardness, with higher stages shifting harder. If I'm looking for something to stand up to some fairly heavy towing, what stage should I be going for? One of the sites have suggested a stage 2, but I'm not sure if that's universal for the 4L60E or just for that company. And- just to double check, as I'd rather not get 'er open and realize I'm missing parts- a master kit is all I need for something like this, correct? Any help is appreciated. And yes, I do know what I'm getting into. I'm working with a friend who's done a tranny rebuild before, and I'm expecting a 4-5 day project.

[davester]

With a stock tune on the motor, you don't need the higher stages, as they typically are for when there is higher input HP.

 

I would suggest going through the kits description and see.  I  don't have a 4l60e, but when I rebuilt my 4l80e, bushings were sold separately, as well as pistons (course, those are more of a "part" than a gasket/seal).

 

As for rebuilding your transmission to minimize downtime (I'm assuming you would like this), if your current transmission is still mostly working well enough, I would suggest getting a used 4l60e that's compatible with the one you've got, rebuild that one, then swap the transmissions.  I don't know anything concrete about 4l60e compatibility, just heard that GM would change things up a lot with them, so you want one for the same year as the existing one, and you probably also want to make sure it's either setup for 2wd or 4wd to match your truck.

[Idahoan6-0]

Thanks for the advice. I'll definitely look through the parts lists and make sure everything is there, and I have thought about swapping in a used and reselling afterwards. There are a few local, including a few for under $500.

Reason I'm thinking of doing a higher stage kit is that I do have some aftermarket work and my trailer's pretty heavy, so I figured going above and beyond wouldn't hurt. Some of these kits were advertised as having a stronger gears 3 and 4, so would there be any downside to a higher stage kit (outside of cost, of course)?

Edited June 16, 2020 by Idahoan6-0

[carkhz316]

Is you truck a factory 6.0 setup (like the Sierra C3 or whatever)? If so, you'll have a 4L65, which is virtually the same transmission, save for a few small differences. Most of the kits will be the same between 60/65 and work, but you'll need the 65 kit for the additional 3-4 clutches. In either case, expect things to take longer than you think it will, especially with a transmission rebuild. Different manufacturers of rebuild kits call them different things, depending on what's in the box, but generally speaking you'll want frictions, steels and seals at a minimum. The more comprehensive kits will include the bushings and/ or pistons as well. I wouldn't be too concerned about the bushings, as most are in nearly perfect condition as they see very little wear in most positions; unless your transmission suffered a catastrophic death. I would for sure replace the pump bushing as it is a high wear one. I would get a kit that includes Borg Warner "High Energy Green" frictions for the 3/4 clutches as they are about the best clutches for any stock-ish application. I would stay away from the Z-pac and the ones that add in additional frictions. They sacrifice steel thickness for more friction counts, which is counter intuitive as it causes them to run hotter.

[Idahoan6-0]

I definitely do have the 4L60E, as I have the 8 bolt axle but not the HD. I'll definitely look into the frictions and make sure they don't add additionals, thanks for the advice.

[Black02Silverado]

It is great that you can do this yourself.  Saves a ton of money that's for sure.

[Grumpy Bear]

The purpose of extra friction plates is to increase clamping pressure for the same give piston/line pressure. More area, more grip. Elimination of slip reduces heat, not build it. High gear is the one most prone to slip as it has the least mechanical advantage. 

[carkhz316]

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

The purpose of extra friction plates is to increase clamping pressure for the same give piston/line pressure. More area, more grip. Elimination of slip reduces heat, not build it. High gear is the one most prone to slip as it has the least mechanical advantage. 

The problem is diminishing returns with the amount of frictions and steels. The steels act as a heat sink for the frictions. When there is insufficient mass present in some of the very thin steels available, they are prone to warpage which causes them to slip, defeating the purpose of the additional quantities. The factory only adds one additional friction and steel to the 65 and 70 transmission, vs the 60. This is a very well known issue with the 3-4 clutch pack in the 60/65/70 transmissions.

Edited June 16, 2020 by carkhz316

[Grumpy Bear]

4 hours ago, carkhz316 said:

The problem is diminishing returns with the amount of frictions and steels. The steels act as a heat sink for the frictions. When there is insufficient mass present in some of the very thin steels available, they are prone to warpage which causes them to slip, defeating the purpose of the additional quantities. The factory only adds one additional friction and steel to the 65 and 70 transmission, vs the 60. This is a very well known issue with the 3-4 clutch pack in the 60/65/70 transmissions.

Diminishing returns? Sure, if the plates become to thin to self support. Tin foil. If you believe it's ill advised then don't. I've personally never had a problem with them. I've blued and warped factory plates that slipped in high gear but never an extra plate setup. I drag raced for years and had them cure more problems then they ever gave. (Provided there were zero fluid leaks to the 3/4 apply piston).

 

On a fun note:

 

I order a chicken AND an egg from Amazon. I'll let ya all know....

 

This may be useful.

 

https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/659-all-over-the-map-attacking-4l60-e-burnt-3-4-clutches-with-confidence

[carkhz316]

9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Diminishing returns? Sure, if the plates become to thin to self support. Tin foil. If you believe it's ill advised then don't. I've personally never had a problem with them. I've blued and warped factory plates that slipped in high gear but never an extra plate setup. I drag raced for years and had them cure more problems then they ever gave. (Provided there were zero fluid leaks to the 3/4 apply piston).

 

On a fun note:

 

I order a chicken AND an egg from Amazon. I'll let ya all know....

 

This may be useful.

 

https://www.sonnax.com/tech_resources/659-all-over-the-map-attacking-4l60-e-burnt-3-4-clutches-with-confidence

Whatever man. I'm just trying to help OP fix his STOCK transmission for towing, not drag racing, unless I missed that part somewhere. I don't know why you're getting defensive about anything, but you do you.

 

As an aside, your Sonnax article points to everything BUT the stack-up of clutches being a culprit, pretty much eliminating the need for additional/ aftermarket clutch setups.

Edited June 17, 2020 by carkhz316

[Grumpy Bear]

56 minutes ago, carkhz316 said:

Whatever man. I'm just trying to help OP fix his STOCK transmission for towing, not drag racing, unless I missed that part somewhere. I don't know why you're getting defensive about anything, but you do you.

 

As an aside, your Sonnax article points to everything BUT the stack-up of clutches being a culprit, pretty much eliminating the need for additional/ aftermarket clutch setups.

Being defensive? No sir I am not. I am supplying additional relevant information as to cause and cure and adding alternatives.

 

Towing heavy or drag racing lockup in the 3/4 drum doesn't matter. Trans doesn't know what is causing the load it's just being asked to handle it. 

 

How ticked off would you be to spend four days rebuilding to end up in the same place a month from now because he didn't have all relevant information?  Ask yourself how he would feel to be in that place because the advice he asked for was lacking full content that may/did prevent a repeat. You mentioned the chronic 3/4 clutch issue and without a cure or cause and blamed it on add a disc. I just added to that comment to provide context and reason. 

 

 

 

 

[tnbubBA]

unless you built one before  get a used junker and  go to oregon tranmission parts  and get a rubild.. the 4 l60E are finkiy as carp on the fluidn circuits and interal valvel body leakes and piston leaks wreak havoc

so yo need ot chekc all the clearances.. the 3/4 and tcc pistions wear out the housing. that shy i suggest gettign a junker and goign thru it if you  neve been insoted one before..  but losts of guys just slup in new pisotons seals and cluthes and keep trucking if the trannys been serviced and kept clean.  read up lots of 4 l60E info on sonnax website.  sorry for the shitty tying i type like a fingerless drunken kungfu master

Edited June 19, 2020 by tnbubBA
i type shitty