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What is really meant by the term "these engines like to run warm"?

14burrito

By 14burrito
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14burrito Enthusiast

14burrito

Posted
Posted

Question for those with the Gen5 5.3 L83 engine (2014+ Silverado, 2015+ GM SUVs).

I keep reading online about a lot of owners "complaining" that these engines run warm. I never really see what "warm" means in temperature terms.

Lot of users on HPTuners are getting ECU unlocked and one of the first things they do is adjust the cooling fan strategy to get the fans working harder, sooner.

Few have gone so far as to install lower temp t-stats and aftermarket radiators.

Wanted to reach out and see if anyone here actually has experiences, details and temperatures they would like to share in regards to these engines "running warm". Yes I have searched, I have also sent DMs and replied to a couple threads.

Some helpful info such as: loads/weights, conditions, location (or amb temps) would provide to be helpful as well.

What are people considering warm?

 

--- Is warm being referenced as the normal op temp of 210F ECT?

 

--- Are people seeing upwards of a 20F spike in ECT under moderate to heavy acceleration? (Getting up to speed to enter the freeway for example) 

 

--- Is it only increased temps under payload, towing weights?


Please feel free to drop links to this and other forums with some useful info, I might have missed some threads through my searching. Please, before posting links, ensure that they do have some useful info with #s, details and actual data - not just some verbiage along the lines of "runs warm" with no #s to reference to what warm represents.

 

Thank you very much.

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Grumpy Bear
Grumpy Bear

No my motor isn't a 5.3. It's the 4.3 but it is the same architecture. The water and oil don't know what motors it's in.     I'm one of those old guys Cameron is talking about. I ditched my

lucas287
lucas287

I'm beginning to think that either:   1) the previous owner of my truck swapped the tstat for a cooler one   -or-   2) my tstat is indeed stuck open.    As long

14burrito
14burrito

@Grumpy Bear   Thank you for your response and information.   Very well stated: "OEM's have their reasons. The EPA have theirs. I have mine. We don't all agree."  

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CamGTP Senior Enthusiast

CamGTP

Posted
Posted

Seeing 210-215 is normal, I see that all the time driving around in the summer time. When I'm beating on it or when I went to the track, it's easy to see 225-230 but it comes right back down to "normal". The hotter summer days does make it way easier to reach those temps.

 

I'm sure the people that say they run warm are used to older model trucks that run around 190-200 all the time even though the temp gauge on the cluster says 210. The K2XX trucks are more accurate with the real temp on the cluster.

 

I own HP Tuners myself and don't have any issues with the temps I see.

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

No my motor isn't a 5.3. It's the 4.3 but it is the same architecture. The water and oil don't know what motors it's in.  

 

I'm one of those old guys Cameron is talking about. I ditched my 207 F stat as soon as I found a way to do it.  Same one that's in your 5.3. OEM's have their reasons. The EPA have theirs. I have mine. We don't all agree.

 

They say Oxides of Nitrogen. They are lower with hotter jacket temperatures. Thing is....they form near peak BMEP's. So...they tuned the cooling system to control a condition that happens how often? In 127 K miles I'll bet I haven't had my motor matted a dozen times. The rest of the time its just cooking the oil. Cooking oil belongs in a fryer. Besides other 6.2's in the lineup that are also of this platform get the 197 F stat. Corvette. 

 

I rolled with it in a GM 2.4. Drank their Kool_Aid. Used Dexos approved oil. Left the controls alone. Even babied the OCI's running 5 K instead of the OLM which would have it done at 7.5 K. (GM had a memo on that) Guess what. By 75 K it started using oil but not enough to get help from GM. Extended warranty ran out at I believe 115 K and AFTER that by the next oil change is was using well over a quart in a thousand. We cleaned it up twice now and I'm watching closely. There was a bill I didn't like. So what happened? Rings gummed up. Not from poor maintenance. I change more often. Used QSUD and WIX filters. No it just cooked itself to death. Replace a VVT solenoid. Screen was covered in oil cooked to death. I have two of these motors in the stable. Yes they use low tension oil rings and perhaps would have been okay if it had been fitted with standard tension rings. But that wouldn't have stopped varnish and gum which would have eventually cause a motor failure.

That's the point. People say what people say about 'this new oil can take it". Yea, it can't.  

 

Likely to late for this motor. But not for my pickup or the Buick. 

 

My economy numbers do not suffer for my choices and my motor life will not suffer for theirs. 

 

On a 95 F day my water runs 172 to 175 F. My oil 192 to 195 F. My trans 160 F. It gets 20% better fuel economy that the EPA average.

 

  • Like 2
14burrito Enthusiast

14burrito

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, CamGTP said:

Seeing 210-215 is normal, I see that all the time driving around in the summer time. When I'm beating on it or when I went to the track, it's easy to see 225-230 but it comes right back down to "normal". The hotter summer days does make it way easier to reach those temps.

 

 

I'm sure the people that say they run warm are used to older model trucks that run around 190-200 all the time even though the temp gauge on the cluster says 210. The K2XX trucks are more accurate with the real temp on the cluster.

 

I own HP Tuners myself and don't have any issues with the temps I see.

Thank you for some feedback with real world numbers you are seeing, experiencing. 

 

210 is the baseline the IP shows us under normal conditions as well, also this is exactly what my OBD reader is showing. Whenever there is a slight increase in coolant temps the guage is quick to respond, so your comment about the clusters showing accurate readings is my experience as well. Little unusual and takes a little getting used to IMO.

 

What's a little worrisome is how "easily" te ECT can rise off nominal. I'm worried about how it would behave with 6klbs behind it.

 

Regarding your beating on it comment: let's say you needed to enter the freeway in a short distance. You accelerated with 75%+ throttle input (moderate, heavy throttle application),  up to 75mph with an amb temp high 80s...with your experience driving your vehicle, how would your ECT react?

 

What's your location? (So I can get an idea of amb temps)

 

With your HPTuners, what modifications have you made within the ECM?

Edited by 14burrito
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, 14burrito said:

@Grumpy Bear

 

Thank you for your response and information.

 

Very well stated:

"OEM's have their reasons. The EPA have theirs. I have mine. We don't all agree."

 

 

I drug out my notebook as I was curious about my gauge and took notes several times comparing my dash gauge with the scanners numbers which are the ECM numbers. I gave values to the dash gauge for the intermediate values that disply as dash for clarity. Both motors use the same DIC and sender units. Here's what I got:

 

DIC    showed 160 173.5 185 197.5  210  222.5

Scan showed 110   125   143   168    210   225

 

image.thumb.png.f414be1b07ea3d99c6aedef6a445718b.png

CamGTP Senior Enthusiast

CamGTP

Posted
Posted

I live in Minnesota, temps range from 75-95 in the summer on avg. A more humid day would make things worse of course.

 

I'd see a 7-10 degree jump if I merge in traffic. A full throttle pull for 10+ seconds would be higher. I've done just about everything with HP Tuners. Engine, transmission changes, added flex fuel and all that.

14burrito Enthusiast

14burrito

Posted
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, CamGTP said:

I live in Minnesota, temps range from 75-95 in the summer on avg. A more humid day would make things worse of course.

 

I'd see a 7-10 degree jump if I merge in traffic. A full throttle pull for 10+ seconds would be higher. I've done just about everything with HP Tuners. Engine, transmission changes, added flex fuel and all that.

Do you not find that ECT rise odd?

 

My Tundra maintains pretty constant ECT and Im running close to 1000lb over curb weight on a daily basis. Even maintains nominal ECT rather well when towing 6k lbs.

 

The few other Chevy vehicles I have driven, as of late a Traverse, the ECT decreases with a WOT pull.

 

Regarding HP tuners,

Altered your cooling fan signal to come in stronger, sooner?

Edited by 14burrito
14burrito Enthusiast

14burrito

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Side note,

 

Could someone during their next commute entertain me...

 

Cruise speed about 65mph, drop the trans into maybe 4th gear (2750ish RPMs) and let it run there for a little bit....what happens with your ECT?

 

Curious, thanks

CamGTP Senior Enthusiast

CamGTP

Posted
Posted

In these direct injected engines, no I don't find it that odd. It's a different thermostat and water pump setup. The older engines just from the looks of it have a larger water pump that flows more coolant. Just look at how far the coolant has to travel just to reach the pump on these engines, the GEN3 and GEN4's have the pump bolted directly to the water passages coming out of the block.

 

electric-to-hydraulic-adding-power-steer

 

 

14burrito Enthusiast

14burrito

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, CamGTP said:

In these direct injected engines, no I don't find it that odd. It's a different thermostat and water pump setup. The older engines just from the looks of it have a larger water pump that flows more coolant. Just look at how far the coolant has to travel just to reach the pump on these engines, the GEN3 and GEN4's have the pump bolted directly to the water passages coming out of the block.

 

electric-to-hydraulic-adding-power-steer

 

 

https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/gm-engines/l83/amp/

 

Based off some reading, seemingly the L83 has "a revised cooling system with an offset water pump and thermostat for more efficient performance".

 

Personally, I find it odd that curb + minimal weight with spirited acceleration is showing a quick 10+ rise in ECT. 

Screenshot_20200915-171353_Chrome.jpg

Edited by 14burrito
CamGTP Senior Enthusiast

CamGTP

Posted
Posted

If you ask me the " efficient performance " is all for the emissions and pleasing the EPA.

 

The hotter it can keep the engine the more efficient it's going to be. If an engine could run at 250 degrees all the time with no issues, they would totally do that because it's going to be more fuel efficient at those temps.

  • Like 1
14burrito Enthusiast

14burrito

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Posted
5 minutes ago, CamGTP said:

If you ask me the " efficient performance " is all for the emissions and pleasing the EPA.

 

The hotter it can keep the engine the more efficient it's going to be. If an engine could run at 250 degrees all the time with no issues, they would totally do that because it's going to be more fuel efficient at those temps.

Thermal efficiency, or lack of. Ok, so I can understand where the arguement where the "efficiency" = hotter = happier EPA.

 

At what point do we start reaching too warm? One seeing 228F ECT on a spirited acceleration with high 80s for amb temp is not very comforting especially being that the vehicle has a 6400lb towing capacity. What's too happen then?

 

Dex-cool, from my understanding, is also not too resistant to "gelling" at higher temps. Has the coolant formulation changed from the usual fleet running 190 ECT for the L83 seeing 210F+ as a norm? Sure, yes BP, pressure, etc. Anything changed in those regards? 

 

I was not really able to find many details, specs on the coolant aside from their "awesome" start into mainstream use.

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, 14burrito said:

Side note,

 

Could someone during their next commute entertain me...

 

Cruise speed about 65mph, drop the trans into maybe 4th gear (2750ish RPMs) and let it run there for a little bit....what happens with your ECT?

 

Curious, thanks

It goes up. My numbers wouldn't translate to you but it goes up. 

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