Jump to content

Estolide's in PCMO

Grumpy Bear
 Share

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 64
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Days

Popular Posts

diyer2
diyer2

At $10 a quart I will use Amsoil OE. 

diyer2
diyer2

I think he does this to yank your guys chain, is he really that ignorant? 

Grumpy Bear
Grumpy Bear

How tall is a mountain? How deep is the sea? How far is a star?😉 

Posted Images

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
  • Author
Posted

This is how you get my business.

 

Biosynthetic® Motor Oil 5W-30

 

IMG_0681.thumb.JPG.bdfa07e6583bacac0ef3d94a03d8e088.JPG

 

Let me know what is in that bottle I'm pouring into my motor and I will!

😉

 

Figure 27.25 from the previous link provided (credit) shows a few points of interest.

 

Estolides are NOT Group III+++ fluids. No such thing. It ends at Group III+. 

 

Like any other ester they are Group V and in this case a large part of the product is an Estolide ester. Which means the esters made come from natural oils  such as Soya and Castor Bean and not chemical feed stocks from crude refining such as ethane/ethylene.

 

Conformation that the mineral portion is a Group III is a plus as is the very low percent of VIM.

Infineum is a joint venture of Exxon/Mobil and Royal Dutch Shell. Very top shelf....

 

The formula Biosynthetic received it's API certification on. This is good news. If they change the formula they would have to resubmit the testing and that cost more than this start up wishes to speed at present. In fact the reason they went with a "off the self' add package. That is to assure first pass certification. @customboss put up a video on this not long ago.  

 

 

  • Like 1
customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted

Interesting because when I first queried them the petroleum base was GRP II+. So they must have improved it.  Thanks for sharing. I THINK the video said it was GRP II+ from Chevron world of hydrocracked bases oils....LOL  I can't hear so I might have misheard. 

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
  • Author
Posted
1 hour ago, customboss said:

Interesting because when I first queried them the petroleum base was GRP II+. So they must have improved it.  Thanks for sharing. I THINK the video said it was GRP II+ from Chevron world of hydrocracked bases oils....LOL  I can't hear so I might have misheard. 

 

If you can find that video can you repost it here please? 

customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, customboss said:

Interesting because when I first queried them the petroleum base was GRP II+. So they must have improved it.  Thanks for sharing. I THINK the video said it was GRP II+ from Chevron world of hydrocracked bases oils....LOL  I can't hear so I might have misheard. 

I misheard because I can't hear.  Just being careful not to mislead.....LOL  

  • Thanks 1
diyer2 Senior Enthusiast

diyer2

Posted
Posted

At $10 a quart I will use Amsoil OE. 

  • Like 3
customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted

Found it.......

 

Hydrocarbons from Plants

 

One of the players in this area is Novvi, whose NovaSpec products meet the APIs Group III criteria and are produced from sugarcane cellulose. As they are biodegradable, use of these hydrocarbons in the appropriate amounts allows formulators to produce environmentally acceptable lubricants that meet the specifications for hydraulic environmental polyalphaolefins and related products, according to ASTM D15380. (Novvi did not respond to requests for comments at the time of publication.)

 

https://www.lubesngreases.com/magazine-emea/3/a-new-way-forward/

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
  • Author
Posted

 

My dog has four limbs, brown eyes and hair. So does my son. Can I conclude my dog is my son?

 :crackup: 

 

Lubes and Greases is WRONG. The criteria for a Group III starts with being derived from a MINERAL OIL. It isn't. It is derived from plant oils. Oh it may meet the API specs for sulfur, minimum saturation and viscosity index but it does not and can not meet the CRITERIA. Lubes and Grease is not the organization who is doing the certifications nor making the rules. Neither is BT or RLI or EVOLVE or some quality lab or Tribologist or  anyone else. The API is the standard. Writes the standards and no one gets a Cert without their approval with REQUIRES conformity to the RULES. Some may not like it but some people don't like allot of things they have little say in. Absent such finality you are left with chaos. 

 

POA's also meet the specs for a Group III and yet they are not a Group III. Why? Not a mineral oil based material and synthetically produced. 

 

Review API doc 1509  Appendix E below:

 

API Base Oil Categories

 

Esters, ALL Esters are Group V

 

Thought we had the nails in this coffin lid hammered down

🤔

 

 

 

  • Haha 1
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Why I'm interested in Estolides. A personal note. 

 

Aniline point and oxidative/hydrolytic degradation resistance. But mostly Aniline point. 

 

PCMO's contain detergents but those Adpack chemistries can only inhibit deposits. They can not clean existing deposits. Detergents are not solvents. Estolides are HUGE solvents. The lower the aniline point of the finished product the better it's solvency. Aniline point is blendable. Biosynthetic is 35% Estolide base oil. About double the the polyol ester content of Red Line at half the aniline point. Major upgrade in solvency. 

 

A motor oil detergent is a surfactant that envelopes a particle and the dispersant package keeps those particles from finding each other preventing precipitation as sludge. The base oil has a resistance to those particles forming and antioxidants to increase that tendency/ability. Each has limits of saturation that once exceeded leave behind deposits that are hard to remove. 

 

A solvent dissolves those particles into solution even after they have amalgamated and precipitated. It too has a limit of saturation and why we change oil even with the best chemistries. Dilution trumps them all. 😉

 

But there is a practical $$$$ limit. In problem motors such as the GM 2.4 this ability to clean and not just prevent is HUGE. Same principle used in CUMMINS Restore. I don't know how they compare in finished aniline point but it matters not if I can no longer source a steady supply of Restore. 

 

 

  • Thanks 1
customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

My dog has four limbs, brown eyes and hair. So does my son. Can I conclude my dog is my son?

 :crackup: 

 

Lubes and Greases is WRONG. The criteria for a Group III starts with being derived from a MINERAL OIL. It isn't. It is derived from plant oils. Oh it may meet the API specs for sulfur, minimum saturation and viscosity index but it does not and can not meet the CRITERIA. Lubes and Grease is not the organization who is doing the certifications nor making the rules. Neither is BT or RLI or EVOLVE or some quality lab or Tribologist or  anyone else. The API is the standard. Writes the standards and no one gets a Cert without their approval with REQUIRES conformity to the RULES. Some may not like it but some people don't like allot of things they have little say in. Absent such finality you are left with chaos. 

 

POA's also meet the specs for a Group III and yet they are not a Group III. Why? Not a mineral oil based material and synthetically produced. 

 

Review API doc 1509  Appendix E below:

 

API Base Oil Categories

 

Esters, ALL Esters are Group V

 

Thought we had the nails in this coffin lid hammered down

🤔

 

 

 

WE! who’s we kimosabe? 🤩

Youz.  
🤪

All in good fun of course. 
 

Night. 

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share
Go to topic listing

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.

  • Forum Statistics

    250.5k
    Total Topics
    2.7m
    Total Posts

  • Member Statistics

    342,902
    Total Members
    8,960
    Most Online
    whenindoubtuseahammer
    Newest Member
    whenindoubtuseahammer
    Joined

  • Who's Online   2 Members, 0 Anonymous, 454 Guests (See full list)

  • Latest Articles

  • Posts

    • Chuck FB
      OCI, not when but why?

      By Chuck FB · Posted

      Its no wonder you've gravitated to the oil types and brands you have in later years after trying certain brands and one being a specialty oil or at least very hard to come by up here and the other would have been a commonly found oil of the era and the vastly different outcomes as a result to using the vehicles in question the same distance for an OCI . It shows what marketing hype can do without actually having the product to back up the claims and that is no different now with the insane claims that are written on the side of a bottle of oil from some of the off the shelf oils.    What has surprised me and I was already finding this out before I bought my truck with the GDI engine, that this newer fancy technology that seemingly would suggest better fuel economy/emissions with this high pressure spray of fuel is not in reality kind at all to the engine or at least the oils life. Yet they insist on claiming long OCI with this technology just like they did with the port or similar type fuel injection systems when in reality its a step back in oil life to have a GDI system.    I think the mistake your making Grumpy is that your not sending your samples to Blackstone and getting the feel good glowing report that you can run it another 1000 or more miles and then send another sample where they say run it yet another 1000 miles and on and on it goes until your sending in something that looks a lot like road tar and then they may suggest you change your oil within the next 1000 miles 😆
    • Chuck FB
      OCI, not when but why?

      By Chuck FB · Posted

      I am guessing that engines of that design back then had a better ability to be abused and survive longer than a new design engine with the long timing chain and the overhead cams and phasers etc. But I would never guess that an engine could go that far and not fail spectacularly or at least die a slow death. 
    • Grumpy Bear
      OCI, not when but why?

      By Grumpy Bear · Posted

      In the 80's 90's I'd run Honda's 7,500 miles between changes using Red Line HP 5W20 and do it for hundreds of thousands of miles with issues. Back in the day it was an SAE 20 with the HTHS of a SAE 30 and SN add load. It was also very polar. Oxidation VOA was over 120. Besides those motors were SPFI and lean burn tech. I could have likely run it longer but never did.    We had a Toyota bought new I ran on Pennzoil's latest and greatest synthetic of the day with "Penthane". A made up word for a very low dose of PAO. Tried 7,500 mile OCI's in that Group III/VI chemistry and the rings tapped out at 90K. Rocker box wasn't as bad as the one Punch put up but it wasn't good either. Also a SPFI motor.    I'm around 3,750 across the board on these GDI monsters and the oil it tapped out by then usually on TBN/TAN crossover and color. Red Line HP Euro.    The AMSOIL SS brochures tell you to follow the OEM values for the service class but that it can be run up to 25K if monitored. I can't imagine what motor could go that distance and not tap out. I've never owned one.    Yes, I know. Lot's of people do. I'm just not going to be one of them. 
    • Grumpy Bear
      OCI, not when but why?

      By Grumpy Bear · Posted

      I knew a guy in the early 80's that bought a new Monte Carlo and ran it a 100,000 miles without ever changing the filter or the oil. Just kept adding. It looked like that inside.     
    • whenindoubtuseahammer
      My First Project and GMC has me stumped

      By whenindoubtuseahammer · Posted

      Good evening. I was lucky enough to get passed down to me a 2007 GMC LBZ that was my great uncle's. While the underside and rockers are more or less gone I feel like with time I can restore it to working order since it only has 110,000 miles and he put nearly every option he could get without getting the new body style since he did not trust DEF. So far I have done everything I can think of but when I put the key into the ignition nothing happens. I put 2 brand new batteries in it. Cleaned the terminals. Check all the fuses and relays and they all pass with my multimeter. I know I'm missing something that I just cant think of. The only odd thing is the OBD2 port works which makes me think its not the mega fuse. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. 

  • GM-Trucks.com Clubs

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...