Where are the 8.1s??

More Throttle · January 22, 2004

I'm planning to buy a (slightly used) truck in the next few months, I'm interested in the GMC 2500HD Crew Cab. Since I like a lot of low-end torque, I like the 8.1L Vortec but I never see any on the dealer lots. I'm in San Antonio, TX and all I see here are the 6.0s and the Duramaxes, I've never seen any 8.1s on dealer lots, ever (at least from their on-line inventory listings). Is it just because Texas is pretty much diesel country or is there another reason: poor reliability, bad rep, etc. or do buyers simply order them instead of choosing from dealer inventory?

I know a Duramax is an option, but I don't tow anything, and don't drive enough miles to pay for the higher up-front and maintenance costs, although it probably would be pretty cool to have...

Any info is appreciated.

Thanks

linda · January 22, 2004

i got mine late in the year (2003) but i had the same problem, and im in Maryland. I didnt want anything except the 8.1L ECSB LT. It took the dealer about 30 minutes to search one out, but he finally found one in PA. I bought it sight unseen and i love it. He only came up with 3 available in my region like i was looking for, and he did a 200 mile radius search. I dont think there is a reliabilty problem, i just dont think they sell as many 8.1L's as the 6.0's or Dmaxes, maybe not as much of a demand.

gcope63 · January 22, 2004

From what I have been told they are not very popular.. Plus I imagine when they do have them they can't mark them up as much as the Dmax's.. I was able to find one yesterday and took it for a test drive.. Went right back in and had them write me up a order quote on one!! Those 8100's are sure a hoot to drive!! Should have mine towards the end of March!

Gary

MCourson · January 22, 2004

Same problem here except I never even see any Dmaxes, all 6.0l. I think they are able to move the 6.0s faster.

More Throttle · January 23, 2004

Thanks for the replies. I guess that all makes sense.

Does anyone have a torque curve graph of the 6.0? I'd like to know what kind of low-end this engine has, since I can get one for less $$$ than the 8.1 and, of course, the Duramax. 360ft-lbs of torque sounds good, but it's at 4000rpm. Wondering what it has at, say, ~2000rpm.

linda · January 23, 2004

here ya go

linda · January 23, 2004

http://www.gm.com/automotive/gmpowertrain/...vehicle/lq4.htm

BRUTONMOTORSPORTZ · January 23, 2004

I am new here but, I wanted to add that I was going to order a 2500HD Crew with the 8.1L and ML6 trans. I was told GM will not build that combo until the 2nd Qtr of 04. April 04 to be exact. My order could not be taken until around March. I do not want to wait until May until truck possibly hits the ground so, I may have to settle for a 6.0L.

QUIKAG · January 23, 2004

If you guys aren't regularly towing over 9000lbs, the 6.0L will be more than sufficient. The 8.1L certainly isn't any faster than a 6.0L around town, it can just tow a lot more weight.

The 8.1L is derived on the old, tried and true Big block, the 6.0L is derived from new LS1 architecture which is proving to be a very solid setup.

Can't go wrong either way, unless you're towing a ton of weight, well, more than 4-5 tons to be exact.

linda · January 24, 2004

i have to respectfully disagree QUIKAG. I have an 8.1L and have 2 friends that have the 6.0L, one is a reg cab long bed, and one is a ext cab short bed. Off the line there is no contest, im outta the hole much faster than the 6.0L (thats where the extra 100 ft/lbs of torque come in). From 0-90mph i beat both of them by 2 trunk lengths. All three vehicles are completely stock. I am not trying to start anything because there maybe some stock 6.0's out there that can beat the 8.1 stock, but not in my experience. Both vehicles are a great choice, i just dont want someone to spend a wad of cash and not be happy a year down the road when their dream vehicle is available. My sugestion is to test drive both of them, if you like the 6.0 as much as the 8.1 then drive it home. I can tell you, punching the pedal in a RAT is way different than punching it in a small block. Either way im sure you will enjoy your new Chevy...

HillHound · January 24, 2004

here ya go

The graph is for pre-2004 8.1Ls.

Not that the graph will look much different, but GM down-rated the peak HP & Torque numbers for the '04 8.1L engines.

The new ones are rated 330hp @ 4200rpm and 450lb-ft @ 3200rpm.

I like gasoline engines over diesels as a matter of preference and you won't go wrong with the 8.1L. Just take your time and find what you want. Don't talk yourself into buying the 6.0L if it's not what you really want!

You run into the same thing with other makes/engines too. When Dodge was still making the 8.0L for their HD Rams it was almost impossible to find one without ordering it. The salesman where I bought my F250 told me they only order 1 out of every 7 Superduties with the 6.8L V10. Most of them are basic V8s or loaded $40K+ diesels.

More Throttle · January 24, 2004

linda,

Thanks for the link. I had seen this site before but lost the address, now I've bookmarked it. It looks like the 6.0 still has a decent amount of torque at the low-end, though. I'll find out when I drive one; good thing is it should easy to find a 6.0.

Most of them are basic V8s or loaded $40K+ diesels.

That's definitely the problem down here. Most of the trucks I see are either company work trucks (totally stripped down) or fully loaded diesels - I've actually seen many come close to $50K I'm also looking at the Super Duty and the V10 is also tough to find, too. I always seem to want the things that are hardest to find...

linda · January 24, 2004

sorry, HILLHOUND is correct. I should have prefaced that reply with the fact that those were 2003 and <. I doubt the layman will notive the 10HP and 5 ft/lbs of torque difference, but it is there non the less. I just like the fact that no matter where i am in my RPM band, from 900rpm - 4800rpm, im never out of the 400+ft/lbs of torque range. I am not a direct recipient yet, but ive been told that with a new air intake, exhaust, and the westers tune the numbers are more along the lines of 405hp and 550ft/lbs of torque. I will let you know soon enough....

blue2kzr2 · January 24, 2004

Why not order the vehicle you want? My dad's done this 2x now, though with a different manufacturer. He couldn't find what he wanted on the lot, no dealers were stocking the optimum towing config for the vehicles he was looking at with the other options he wanted, so he ended up ordering. Both times they had to build a second truck for him though. The first truck (in 2000) never left the plant, the other one, that's still on order never made it to the dealer, damaged in shipping along with all but 14 out of 300 on the boat his was on. Oh yeah, at least on the second truck he ordered, this was reflected in the RPOs, that the order was pushed as far to the front of the line as it could be, and that it was a re-order, as well as 2 others but can't remember them.

Anyway, ordering is the only way to get EXACTLY what you want, otherwise you're just "settling" for what the dealers think you want. I've been happy buying used trucks, but I'm not looking for optimal towing configs, I'm just commuting and running misc. errands.

More Throttle · January 24, 2004

Unfortunately, in my case ordering is pretty much out of the question. First is the cost, ordering a brand-new 8.1 would hit around $40K, definitely out of my range. Second is the time required - I think the average build-time is around 6-8 weeks or something like that, and I'm planning to sell my car privately (I'll see what dealers will offer on a trade-in but I know it'll be ridiculously low) which means once I sell my car, I won't have anything to drive to work. I guess I could rent a car for two months, but that would add up, too. Finally (this is related to #1), is the huge depreciation of a new vehicle, I really don't want to get hit with that. I bought my current car new, and the amount of depreciation in the first 1-2 years is staggering.

I guess it boils down to the high cost of a new vehicle (maybe I should have tried getting into law school...). I think getting something that's slightly used, not beaten to death, but enough to take some of the bite out of the price (like 1-2 yrs old), is the most cost-effective option.