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Bilstein 5100 + 1.75 Level

David Sherill
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David Sherill Enthusiast

David Sherill

Posted
Posted

Has anyone installed 5100's along with a level kit?  If so, how did it work out and what circlip setting did you use?  I've got a 1.75 Zone level w/upper control arms installed and now wanting to upgrade shocks.  I assume there are no issues if you use the stock setting but what if you used the middle or high?  Would that net additional lift but cause too much stress on other components?  I was thinking of using the middle setting that gives ~1/2" so would my total come out to 2.25?  Just not sure how that math actually works out.  Thanks guys!

asilverblazer Senior Enthusiast

asilverblazer

Posted
Posted

You would get additional lift. It would increase operating angle of the lower ball joint and CV-shafts they would be operating out side of their designed parameters and the result is usually decreased service life. 

 

The aftermarket upper control arms might rectify the upper ball joint angles, and increase suspension down travel to make up for the taller strut assembly moving the suspension geometry closer to the droop limit. 

 

If the aftermarket upper control arms DO NOT fix those, then the upper ball joint would be subject to the same limitations as the lower ball joint - reduced service life from operating outside the design parameters. Additionally, the ride would suffer by hitting the droop stops prematurely in the suspension cycle.

Diamond817 Enthusiast

Diamond817

Posted
Posted (edited)

What is a zone level? Is it a just a spacer? If so, remove the spacer and set the 5100's to 1.5 or 2" lift and install. 

 

What model truck do you have? Is it a Trail Boss or RST/LT/Custom?

 

Edited by Diamond817
Diamond817 Enthusiast

Diamond817

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/12/2023 at 2:35 PM, asilverblazer said:

You would get additional lift. It would increase operating angle of the lower ball joint and CV-shafts they would be operating out side of their designed parameters and the result is usually decreased service life. 

 

The aftermarket upper control arms might rectify the upper ball joint angles, and increase suspension down travel to make up for the taller strut assembly moving the suspension geometry closer to the droop limit. 

 

If the aftermarket upper control arms DO NOT fix those, then the upper ball joint would be subject to the same limitations as the lower ball joint - reduced service life from operating outside the design parameters. Additionally, the ride would suffer by hitting the droop stops prematurely in the suspension cycle.

Guys with Trail Boss models put 2" leveling kits in them all the time without any issues. That equals 4" of total front end lift over the RST. The Trail Boss and RST/LT use the same upper and lower control arms, ball joints etc. Look under a TB if you get a chance  the control arms are just about level, there is nothing extreme about the angles. 

The CV shafts on the TB are different/longer. If going more than 2" lift/level on the RST/LT you should get the TB CV's. 

Edited by Diamond817
romeactual Enthusiast

romeactual

Posted
Posted

Funny enough, I just had this accidentally done to my truck over the weekend. I paid a shop to install the 5100s and they kept my 1.5” level blocks in place, even though I told them to remove. I used highest clip setting on the shocks for the 2” level. I went back and had the shop remove the level blocks. The truck had a slight squat so I didn’t want to keep that look. But if you get a 1.5-2” block in the rear it would look better. Since I have 22” wheels, my tires look so small so not a fan of the look with the truck higher. 

IMG_9977.jpeg

asilverblazer Senior Enthusiast

asilverblazer

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Diamond817 said:

Guys with Trail Boss models put 2" leveling kits in them all the time without any issues.

...yet... However, no one will ever have enough data to know how much is too much and at what rate.

 

5 hours ago, Diamond817 said:

The Trail Boss and RST/LT use the same upper and lower control arms, ball joints etc.

I thought the TB had different upper control arms, but I might be making that up. 

 

5 hours ago, Diamond817 said:

That equals 4" of total front end lift over the RST.

That's more than I would do. With out a different upper control arm there is no way the ride is not compromised. They would almost certainly have to be riding on the droop stops. 

David Sherill Enthusiast

David Sherill

Posted
  • Author
Posted
6 hours ago, Diamond817 said:

What is a zone level? Is it a just a spacer? If so, remove the spacer and set the 5100's to 1.5 or 2" lift and install. 

 

What model truck do you have? Is it a Trail Boss or RST/LT/Custom?

 

My Zone level uses preload spacers and a top spacer to get the lift, similar to the Readylift SST.  I'm considering removing the preload spacer then circlip on #2 or #3  on the Bilstein 5100's to make up that lift.

Amcguy1970 Enthusiast

Amcguy1970

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 4/17/2023 at 3:34 AM, Diamond817 said:

Guys with Trail Boss models put 2" leveling kits in them all the time without any issues. That equals 4" of total front end lift over the RST. The Trail Boss and RST/LT use the same upper and lower control arms, ball joints etc. Look under a TB if you get a chance  the control arms are just about level, there is nothing extreme about the angles. 

The CV shafts on the TB are different/longer. If going more than 2" lift/level on the RST/LT you should get the TB CV's. 

 

They have problems, shoot auto 4wd doesn't work with some of those kits. Stacking kits is never a good idea. Some don't have issues that they share or know about, they will still wear out parts sooner in the long run and have other handling/driving characteristic issues that are more an annoyance than an issue... Not sure why someone would want to do this, it is the equivalent of cutting your springs to drop, just the cheap and incorrect way of doing it that causes more harm than good. Pictures show they have some good angles, not extreme but not good for longevity either. I don't know about you, but I don't care to replace front end parts before 100k if I don't have to. 

 

Trail Boss Leveling with Diff Drop? | Chevy Trail Boss Forum

 

Tyler

Edited by Amcguy1970
DrNick Enthusiast

DrNick

Posted
Posted
On 4/17/2023 at 9:52 AM, David Sherill said:

My Zone level uses preload spacers and a top spacer to get the lift, similar to the Readylift SST.  I'm considering removing the preload spacer then circlip on #2 or #3  on the Bilstein 5100's to make up that lift.

 

How did this end up?  I've got a set of 5100s with the Bilstein B8 UCAs waiting for for install.  I'd really like to get closer to 2" of lift in the front (with a little rake) and have considered stacking.  Trying to determine if this puts anything in a bind or at unacceptable levels and which spacer (top vs bottom) has the least amount of downside.

Would love to see some after pics and what you ended up with lift wise. Thanks!

David Sherill Enthusiast

David Sherill

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I ended up using the stock setting on the Bilstein's so no change other than the shocks.  Wasn't comfortable trying something that most recommended not to do.  I also called Zone and asked their opinion and was told they don't test with anything other than stock shocks so they couldn't give a solid answer.  I don't see why it wouldn't work, but again wasn't a chance I was willing to take.

  • 10 months later...
DrNick Enthusiast

DrNick

Posted
Posted
On 4/28/2023 at 10:21 AM, David Sherill said:

I ended up using the stock setting on the Bilstein's so no change other than the shocks.  Wasn't comfortable trying something that most recommended not to do.  I also called Zone and asked their opinion and was told they don't test with anything other than stock shocks so they couldn't give a solid answer.  I don't see why it wouldn't work, but again wasn't a chance I was willing to take.

 

Update.  I ended up going through some trial and error, but finally got everything installed and I think i'm to a stable point with the truck.

I ended up grabbing a set of Bilstein 5100s and a set of their B8 Upper Control Arms (very nice kit btw).  Huge upgrade in both ride quality and handling even with the additional ride height.  Even if you're not using the "lift" settings (BTW in previous versions of the 5100s there were 4 different height settings to choose from.  These only have 3 and IMO the settings are too far apart to be helpful for my situation) the 5100s are a huge upgrade over the Ranchos.  Unfortunately, I did not get the advertised 1.1" of lift at the highest setting.  I saw a gain of 7/8" and 15/16" in the front, which is close but also sucks b/c the truck sat level from side to side with the OEM struts / shocks.  The rear a tiny increase in height of 1/8" and 1/16".  

 

I tossed a set of BFG KO2 tires in a 295/70/18 (~34" tire) and had a small amount of rubbing.  I don't tolerate rubbing tires and wasn't interested in trimming, so I grabbed a ReadyLift 1.5" lift for the non AT4 Sierras to stack on top of the 5100s.  

 

With the 5100 and RL 1.5" lift combo I ended up with a level truck and 2 9/16" and 2 3/8" of lift in the front over stock.  There is no zero rubbing in any circumstance (I tried to get it to rub) and the truck still aligns to factory settings with very little force required during reinstall.  Nothing looks to be in a bind, steering effort is low, axle angles look happy, and ride has been minimally impacted.  

This seems to be a non typical, but good combination to level the truck and the 5100s provide superior handling and ride even with larger / heavier tires.  The longer shocks seem to take the place of the lower spacer w/o the negative side effects.

fondupot Senior Enthusiast

fondupot

Posted
Posted

It's not recommended to stack leveling kits. In this case you would be stacking the bilstein level with a spacer level. This would have detrimental effects on your ride quality and longevity of suspension components.

 

Others have tried this and have regretted it.

DrNick Enthusiast

DrNick

Posted
Posted (edited)
49 minutes ago, fondupot said:

It's not recommended to stack leveling kits. In this case you would be stacking the bilstein level with a spacer level. This would have detrimental effects on your ride quality and longevity of suspension components.

 

Others have tried this and have regretted it.

 

The effect of stacking kits in my case mirrors the ReadyLift and other 2.5" lifts.  However instead of the lower spacer you get the same effect from the longer strut.  It has not resulted in any noticeable stiffness in the front and the ride improvement from the 5100s is significant.

Edited by DrNick
asilverblazer Senior Enthusiast

asilverblazer

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, fondupot said:

It's not recommended to stack leveling kits. In this case you would be stacking the bilstein level with a spacer level. This would have detrimental effects on your ride quality and longevity of suspension components.

 

Others have tried this and have regretted it.

His use of alternate upper control arms has likely been the key to preserving a reasonable ride quality. 

 

This might also preserve the life span of the upper ball joints. 

 

Lower ball joints will have a decreased life span, by how much is debatable.

 

Same goes for cv-shafts.

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