Wow I'm in a pickle. (Broke down truck) and a story.

[Atlas]

The truck is a 1995 Chevrolet S10 Blazer, 4.3 VIN "W" engine. :cracks knuckles:

 

On a whim - because I needed a headache - this truck was for sale so I stopped to take a look. Doesn't run. Well, it does, but barely. Long crank, choppy idle, bad misfire(s), it REEKS of fuel. I can DO this..I'm thinking. Diamond in the rough. One owner until last year. A young guy is selling it, he bought it 6 months ago. It stranded him more than once, he's got a newborn. It was in the shop 10 days ago and he "thinks" they said it needs a new fuel injection system. He can't put any more money into it, needs it gone. I was thinking of upgrading my Macbook, which is a total want, not a need. For less than the price of a new laptop I can have fun for months tinkering on this truck and enjoying it. I'm taking this truck home. The guy was beyond thrilled, his wife was there, she thanked me profusely, I could tell they were hurting. They seemed like good people in a bind.

 

Some parts, a wash, maybe a set of tires, and I can have a few months of fun and then turn it for beer money (or the next project).

 

Sure enough, there's a work order from a shop last week in the INCHES of paperwork on this truck dating back to when the first owner bought it. They put a new distributor in it, fuel injection work describes basically opening the plenum and putting it back together. He said he couldn't afford any more work so he had them button it up and that's when he put it up for sale.

 

I'm not well versed in 4.3. I did discover 1995 uses the 1992-1995 SCPI "Spider" injector which is riddled with issues from splitting lines, clogged or cracked poppet valves and plastic spider legs that crumble over time. Cool. I'll just order me a ne---. Oh, the auto parts store doesn't have it? Rock Auto doesn't have it. eBay? $$$$$$ for used. These are UNAVAILABLE period end of story unless you know "a guy" who's still got one in a box somewhere.

 

Can't upgrade to the '96-'04 injector, it's a different plenum, wiring/pinout and sensor config.

 

There are a few kinda "know a guy" -guy rebuild services for these injectors out there for about $350. Okay, Okay... I'd like to know if anyone has used them? Anyone got a lead on these crappy 92-95 spiders?

 

I also don't want to send MY spider to Narnia and back without knowing if that's truly the problem. I guess I'll need to pull apart the plenum and do some digging.

 

I was also thrown for a loop. This 1995 model year truck has an OBD-II connector. The interface is decidedly not OBD-II. I can read and reset trouble codes and view live data, but there's not a lot of data. Like misfire count and on what cylinder, that's not there. It's OBD-1.5.

 

Nothing is ever easy. Now it makes sense why this guy wanted to disappear this thing for cheap. I'm guessing the shop told him the injector is toast, the part is unobtainable and they're not going to sort sending the thing to a rando offering rebuild service on craigslist, and the kid likely can't be without a working car for 3 weeks even if they'd facilitate that.

 

Experience with these early SCPI's? Stories? Things to check? Sympathy? (..Nah...)

 

This can sit until I sort it. But I haven't had a problem with a vehicle I couldn't easily solve in a long time.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 10:32 PM by Atlas

[KARNUT]

14 minutes ago, Atlas said:

The truck is a 1995 Chevrolet S10 Blazer, 4.3 VIN "W" engine. :cracks knuckles:

 

On a whim - because I needed a headache - this truck was for sale so I stopped to take a look. Doesn't run. Well, it does, but barely. Long crank, choppy idle, bad misfire(s), it REEKS of fuel. I can DO this..I'm thinking. Diamond in the rough. One owner until last year. A young guy is selling it, he bought it 6 months ago. It stranded him more than once, he's got a newborn. It was in the shop 10 days ago and he "thinks" they said it needs a new fuel injection system. He can't put any more money into it, needs it gone. I was thinking of upgrading my Macbook, which is a total want, not a need. For less than the price of a new laptop I can have fun for months tinkering on this truck and enjoying it. I'm taking this truck home. The guy was beyond thrilled, his wife was there, she thanked me profusely, I could tell they were hurting. They seemed like good people in a bind.

 

Some parts, a wash, maybe a set of tires, and I can have a few months of fun and then turn it for beer money (or the next project).

 

Sure enough, there's a work order from a shop last week in the INCHES of paperwork on this truck dating back to when the first owner bought it. They put a new distributor in it, fuel injection work describes basically opening the plenum and putting it back together. He said he couldn't afford any more work so he had them button it up and that's when he put it up for sale.

 

I'm not well versed in 4.3. I did discover 1995 uses the 1992-1995 SCPI "Spider" injector which is riddled with issues from splitting lines, clogged or cracked poppet valves and plastic spider legs that crumble over time. Cool. I'll just order me a ne---. Oh, the auto parts store doesn't have it? Rock Auto doesn't have it. eBay? $$$$$$ for used. These are UNAVAILABLE period end of story unless you know "a guy" who's still got one in a box somewhere.

 

Can't upgrade to the '96-'04 injector, it's a different plenum, wiring/pinout and sensor config.

 

There are a few kinda "know a guy" -guy rebuild services for these injectors out there for about $350. Okay, Okay... I'd like to know if anyone has used them? Anyone got a lead on these crappy 92-95 spiders?

 

I also don't want to send MY spider to Narnia and back without knowing if that's truly the problem. I guess I'll need to pull apart the plenum and do some digging.

 

I was also thrown for a loop. This 1995 model year truck has an OBD-II connector. The interface is decidedly not OBD-II. I can read and reset trouble codes and view live data, but there's not a lot of data. Like misfire count and on what cylinder, that's not there. It's OBD-1.5.

 

Nothing is ever easy. Now it makes sense why this guy wanted to disappear this thing for cheap. I'm guessing the shop told him the injector is toast, the part is unobtainable and they're not going to sort sending the thing to a rando offering rebuild service on craigslist, and the kid likely can't be without a working car for 3 weeks even if they'd facilitate that.

 

Experience with these early SCPI's? Stories? Things to check? Sympathy? (..Nah...)

 

This can sit until I sort it. But I haven't had a problem with a vehicle I couldn't easily solve in a long time.

 

 

Google converting 98 4.3 spider injection to carburetor if all else fails. 

[richard wysong]

You could try a used 1, they used that engine in the Astro vans, Plenty of them in the boneyard. Look for a wrecked or rotted 1 so the chance that it was scrapped for that reason and not a mechanical issue will be greater

[Atlas]

Sadly, there's a drought of good 92-95 4.3 cars at junkyards in the area otherwise I would have gone fishing for parts. Not that they don't come up, there's just nothing good in the yards right now.

 

I tore into the intake yesterday evening, easier than I thought, and I might have this problem licked for cheap. Two of the intake studs came up with the bolt on removal, no big deal but that's why it looks funny with studs only on one side.

 

There's pooled gas on both sides of the plenum. Highlights boxed in green. Picture-right side has an obviously split pressure line from rubbing on the #5 injector nylon line. #5's line is worn in that spot but not all the way through. Passenger side intake (picture left), not sure, but I think the pressure regulator is hosed. Rebuilt spiders don't come with the pressure and return hoses so I'll need to replace those no matter what. A pressure regulator is $30 so I'll try that and if I end up having to swap the whole spider, it was $30. I'll be grinning ear to ear if that's all I need.

 

Parts arrive Tuesday.

 

Sure enough the shop was here before. That's a new gasket. Vacuum lines and wiring are a tangled mess, I sorted that out last night as well. Spent about an hour just picking up general slack and shoddy reassembly around the engine bay. Cheek-pokered the battery tray, got it all cleaned up. Sometimes things just need a little elbow grease and a few minutes of time to be right again.

 

[Atlas]

tl; dr I've now reached the 6th floor of hell. I'm chronicling my journey for my morning readers.

 

Pulling the top of the intake apart was moderately easy but it involved a lot of parts, connections, and minutae. I was preparing for the new fuel lines to arrive ("nut and bolt kit" it's called). The fuel line connections are notched and held in place by the manifold and a metal plate with a T27 screw.

 

It's on the back of the intake, under the firewall, with little clearance, and two hard metal fuel lines in the way. I was using Franken-tools (weird combinations of 1/4 inch ratchet with/without an extension, with a bit holder for my T27) to get in there. One of my sockets and bits fell off and has yet to emerge on the floor. I lost a second setup and that's when I almost started throwing tools. But that was the point at which I had gotten traction on the Torx head, and it promptly stripped. No more traction.

 

I started humming "1-877-kars-4-kids" because I was about at that point. You know what? I'm $1500 into this thing and I can make it disappear just as quickly. This isn't fun anymore. I had spent a lot of time already "tidying" around the engine bay: Fixing all the "someone's been here before!" BS. The truck has been exclusively dealer- and shop- serviced and I'm reminded of why I never let other people work on my cars unless absolutely necessary.

 

Speaking of dealer service. This truck has a 1" stack of records going back to 1995. I put them all in an excel spreadsheet, date/mileage/description.

 

The CPI spider has been replaced 4 times in 85k miles. The EGR? Another 4. Multiple, multiple O2 sensors. One Cat. 4? Sets of plugs and wires, and I swear half the stack is diagnosis paperwork for "misfire, runs rough, extended crank, dies at stoplights".

 

GM was producing some proper crap back then. And it was still well within the era of brittle/crappy plastic. (Windows 95 was released the same month this truck was sold new, we HAD the technology!!)

 

There (was) a plastic shroud around the evaporator core and HVAC fan in the engine bay. I noticed a chunk of it missing so I poked at it some more and it literally shattered. Touched it some more and pieces were crumbling off. Had a good laugh. Clearly whatever plastic garbage they were using had broken down over 30 years and was literally turning to dust. That was a good half hour of using a shop vac to remove the rest of it.

 

Back to it.

 

I was going to give up for the evening but then decided I'm already level 10 pissed off at the stripped screw: G* D* it, give me my tools back -- and my JOY. We'll do this the hard way: The whole intake is coming off.

 

Blazer won Round II. After finally finding and accessing the 12 intake bolts and using a pry bar to unseat it from the heads, it popped loose in an explosion of gunk and grime raining down into open ports. Awesome.

 

6 times I reminded myself: Be careful of the temperature sender on the front of the intake.

 

YEAH, I forgot again and snapped it clean off in the removal. Add another $20 to the ever-growing list of new parts this thing is consuming.

 

The shame is, long before removing the intake, I had changed the oil in prep for Tuesday's momentous fuel line replacement that was going to be the magic fix and I'd have a running Blazer to tool around in this next weekend. The intake removal, including raining gunk, also gushed dirty coolant all over the valley. Of course it did. Welp, there goes another $35.

 

I now need an intake gasket set, bolt set, coolant temp sensor, another 5 quarts of oil, some RTV. Don't worry, I've already got 3 new jugs of Dexcool and a thermostat waiting. I'll fill it with clean water first to get it running, dump it, and then add the Dex later on in case... well, let's not go there. I'm only tearing this down once, next time the truck is going on Marketplace for FREE.

 

Oh, and I'm going to need vacuum hose for all the stupid connections placed at the rear of the engine which have since disintegrated. Come on, GM....tell me you don't do that anymore?

 

Oh, and the ears on the distributor where the cap screws down are both cracked. I mean, why not put a new distributor in it too. You get a distributor, YOU get a distributor, Everyone gets a new distributor!

 

This truck isn't out of the woods yet...I'm already questioning how much more time I'm willing to sink in.

[richard wysong]

I had an 88 K1500 with a 5.7 that had those symptoms, I know totally different, it ended up being the ECM. Once you get the fuel system fixed if it still runs lousy you may want to investigate that. it didn't set any codes, stalled ,ran rough at times etc

[Atlas]

Progress... sort of.

 

Intake is disassembled, spider is out, fuel lines removed. Used a torch on the stripped screw with the lower intake off, much easier when I've got the intake sitting on my workbench, I made it talk. Walked right out with a pair of vice grips once it was nice and toasty hot.

 

New parts are piling up on my service cart waiting to be installed. Distributor, temperature sensor, new gaskets, fuel line kit, themostat, water neck.

 

My new pickle is I don't want to spend $600 on a replacement spider. I'm not sure IT is bad. I'm probably splitting hairs. Or it's $300 to send mine away and another 3 weeks of the truck just sitting. I have half a mind to assemble everything with the old spider to see if I can get away with just replacing the fuel pressure regulator to be safe. The obvious issue was the gushing high pressure fuel line which will be replaced. Getting to the spider really isn't that hard, and now I know what I'm doing , swapping it would be a breeze should it absolutely need one. Stupid, or smart?

 

The part that gives me pause is replacing the distributor. Well, it's already out. And I didn't mark it, whoopsie! Engine was at TDC when I removed it, I know that, so upon correct reinstall the metal tip on the rotor should point to the TDC mark on the distributor because that's where it was pointing on the old distributor. Worst case I'm a tooth off and have to re-stab it.

 

But then, what? I assume the truck will start. It doesn't appear the timing can be set. Here's the problem: These distributors can't be rotated but a degree or two, by design. What I read is Cam ****** needs to be -2 to +2 degrees, ideally at 0 (and checked/set above 1000 rpm). There should be enough wiggle to get that properly set, but checking the reported value is another potential issue. My Actron 9185 scanner says it supports enhanced GM PIDs and Cam ****** is one of them but it's unclear that I'll be able to correctly see it over OBD 1.5. I can see why people end up junking these things with life left in them. They're an absolute nightmare with tweener-year diagnostics/electronics and unobtanium parts.

 

Fingers crossed it starts and idles nicely. There can be hope, right? I'ma buy a lottery ticket the same day just in case.

 

Next steps..DO IT. I have not installed an intake before so I've been reading and watching a lot. Some say NO RTV except on china walls, some say DO RTV on water ports but not fuel/air intake. 1/4 or 3/8 bead on China walls? I think my strategy will be, obviously, RTV china walls with overlap on the gasket corners. Chapstick-style RTV the water ports. Leave intake ports dry. The only set of intake gaskets I could find locally are Edelbrock performance gaskets (uh...for an asthmatic 190hp V6? LOL) so we'll see how they do.

 

#NoToolLeftBehind. It took an hour, but my recovery mission for my deep 10mm socket was successful. It had rolled down the bellhousing and wedged itself between what I think are the fuel lines? I couldn't see it at all, but with a junk antenna I had laying around, I blindly went poking/sweeping for it, heard it clink, raised the truck, and caught a sliver glimpse of chrome with a flashlight way up there in Narnia. I had pushed it farther along the lines holding it captive, but within access of severely improvised tools, poking and cursing at it to finally knock it free to where I could get a fingertip on it to bring it home. 

 

Not much to see.

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 03:32 PM by Atlas

[StingerZ16]

Looks tight. Not a lot of working room.

Hows yous knuckles?

[Atlas]

21 hours ago, StingerZ16 said:

Looks tight. Not a lot of working room.

Hows yous knuckles?

 

I'm taking a day or two off. Still waiting on a fuel pressure regulator, and I'm hurting. This is a hobby not a day job and I'm just not used to bending over an engine bay like this. Surprisingly, hands are OK. I wear gloves.

 

I'll do some tinkering later today and get the engine side of the intake mating surface cleaned up. Intake itself is ready to go. Hoping to seat it / gaskets and RTV today so it can cure in time for the weekend.

[Grumpy Bear]

Now I know which ones not to be interested in. Thanks! 

 

You've got this.  

[Atlas]

I've never done an intake gasket before. Of course, advice on how to best clean and prep is ALL OVER the place. Scotch Brite. No Scotch Brite. Roloc wheel, NO, not that, plastic scraper only and solvents, NO, use a razor blade and solvents, acetone, NO, use brake cleaner, NO not brake cleaner, use ___ .

 

I tried a more gentle method last night with a razor blade - actually, with a new exacto blade because it's wider than a razor blade and just as sharp. And using plastic (blue) scotch-brite (basically a kitchen sponge with a non-scratch scrubber on the back) and some brake cleaner.

 

Sadly, there is some pitting/corrosion on the intake where it mates with the rear coolant ports which aren't used. They're blocked off there so coolant pools and corrosives crystallize there and cling to the intake material. I think a new gasket will seal.

 

The Edelbrock install guide says use Gaskachinch (which I interpret as a product like Permatex High Tack dressing/sealer) to hold the gasket in place and encourage good sealing. SO I think I'll do that.

 

Any other tips/tricks? I'll suck out the valley and ports real good and add some more protective layering while cleaning to catch debris. This is definitely a backyard job, good enough. I don't have enough interest or zeal to go have stuff hot-dipped, machined, etc. It was sealed before, so it should seal again. Right?!

[richard wysong]

Correct. Read the directions on any chemical sealer you use, lots of RTV says to let it skin over BEFORE assembly. The more humid it is the faster it cures, I think the RIGHT STUFF can be assembled wet

Edited 55 minutes ago by richard wysong

[Grumpy Bear]

Gasgacinch, James Gaskets. Good stuff. High tac to help hold the gasket in place while assembling parts. Fills minor surface imperfections. Slightly elastic. Gasoline / coolant / oil proof. Very handy stuff. Nothing like RTV.