(help!) Power Train Warranty Void?

[wavery]

I said that I could almost guarantee it....... I graduated GMI and was a factory rep for a few years before taking a job as Parts & Service Director for a large dealer consortium in dowtown LA........ I've seen it all.........

 

I'm sure you've seen a lot of BS like this go down... people get taken advantage of everyday because they dont know enough to make a case for themselves.

 

Its this train of thought that keeps allowing this to happen though. I'd fight tooth and nail if any manufacturer tried to deny me warranty, for example, if i had a cracked head on the basis that i "installed an intake". I can "almost" guarantee that i'd win that court battle... but i'm probably more prepared than most; my point is that its sad that going to court over such BS is even conceivable

 

 

Matt...... learn how to read....... I never suggested that the intake caused a cracked head or that could even be the issue. Do you just think this stuff up?

 

This guy has a serious problem and he needs some serious help. If he goes off half cocked, this could cost him thousands of dollars. Getting cute with words and bravado isn't helping him..

 

I don't believe that anyone is trying to "Take advantage" of this guy. They appear to be trying to help but may be frustrated by his modifications. If I (or most reasonable people) were in their shoes, I'd feel the same way.

 

Heck, if it comes down to tearing into the engine, who removes the aftermarket parts that the customer installed. None of my techs would touch it. If something didn't perform right after the job is done, who's to blame. This stuff is a lot more complicated then most think about.

 

 

---------------------------- BTW.... this statement: " if any manufacturer tried to deny me warranty, for example, if i had a cracked head on the basis that i "installed an intake". I can "almost" guarantee that i'd win that court battle..."

-----------I can almost guarantee you that you would lose. It has been my experience that the courts take a very dimm view on modifying a vehicle from manufacturers specs. If a customer modifies an eggine in any way, they are taking the risk of losing their engine warranty and the courts normall back that up. I have seen many cases fought and every single one lost.

[Matt_]

Chill out bud, i do know how to read

 

They are in the middle of an oil consumption test. The customer throws on aftermarket parts that will change cylinder head and valve temps. What if the engine has a blown head gasket over an oil passage or a cracked head?

 

We're talking about an intake on his truck and an oil consumption issue. So when you said that (above), i thought you were talking about his intake causing a cracked head... logical deduction from your quote, no?

 

 

He does have a serious problem... your advice is to put the intake back on. I agree (because its easy to remedy), but i think its stupid that they're tying to blame his intake.

 

 

 

You're providing sound advice. Ill digress (edit: but i hope those words aren't too cute... lol)

[wavery]

Chill out bud, i do know how to read

 

They are in the middle of an oil consumption test. The customer throws on aftermarket parts that will change cylinder head and valve temps. What if the engine has a blown head gasket over an oil passage or a cracked head?

 

We're talking about an intake on his truck and an oil consumption issue. So when you said that (above), i thought you were talking about his intake causing a cracked head... logical deduction from your quote, no?

 

 

He does have a serious problem... your advice is to put the intake back on. I agree (because its easy to remedy), but i think its stupid that they're tying to blame his intake.

 

 

 

You're providing sound advice. Ill digress (edit: but i hope those words aren't too cute... lol)

 

I can see where one might think that from that statement. My intention was...... OK..... hey tear down the engine and find a cracked head. The cracked head probably isn't the source of the oil consumption so how does the dealer justify replacing a cracked head on a vehicle with a modified intake and/or exhaust?

 

Did the engine have the crack before the mod? Did the exhaust gaskets or cold air intake contribute to the damage? The dealer can't make that call. The Service Rep would have to make it. What do you think he's gonna say?

 

Had the engine not been tampered with, there would be no question......... It's the question that is the problem.

 

Sorry that I got snippy It's my old age........ I always blame everything on my old age. Especially when I'm playing football with my boys...... Than I kick their butts.....

[possin08]

Well first off thank you guys for all the input. Knowing the oil consumption was the same rate from when I brought it in pre mods to after mods I know I didn't cause it, but I agree doing the mods probably was not the best move. The dealership is working well with me after I talked to them tonight and they agreeed that its most likely nothing I did with the mods, but in order for them to tear into my engine they need to get a GM rep there, take pictures of everything etc to get it approved so the dealership gets paid for the work. They suggested I just put the factory air intake back in and put my stock rims and tires and they would proceed with getting the GM rep there. There goal as they described to me with me putting on the factory wheels is to make the truck appear stock as much as possible. There is no easy route and I guess I contributed to making it that way. Since its not much work (even though I still don't want to do it) I am just going to do what they suggested so I can actually get this fixed (hopefully). My service rep said that the exhaust wont be issue, which I think would be over the tires but it is what is. So for now that's the route I am going to take and hope for the best. Again thank you for input and the suggestions. I will update with what I find out in the next week.

[wavery]

Well first off thank you guys for all the input. Knowing the oil consumption was the same rate from when I brought it in pre mods to after mods I know I didn't cause it, but I agree doing the mods probably was not the best move. The dealership is working well with me after I talked to them tonight and they agreeed that its most likely nothing I did with the mods, but in order for them to tear into my engine they need to get a GM rep there, take pictures of everything etc to get it approved so the dealership gets paid for the work. They suggested I just put the factory air intake back in and put my stock rims and tires and they would proceed with getting the GM rep there. There goal as they described to me with me putting on the factory wheels is to make the truck appear stock as much as possible. There is no easy route and I guess I contributed to making it that way. Since its not much work (even though I still don't want to do it) I am just going to do what they suggested so I can actually get this fixed (hopefully). My service rep said that the exhaust wont be issue, which I think would be over the tires but it is what is. So for now that's the route I am going to take and hope for the best. Again thank you for input and the suggestions. I will update with what I find out in the next week.

Does your exhaust system include manifolds? If it does, I'd put the stock ones back on. If it's just pipes, I wouldn't be too concerned.

[possin08]

The exhaust is just cat back, sorry I should of specified that.

[RyanbabZ71]

chill out guys! No need to argue over the internet.

 

I would say putting the stock intake back on is a fair trade off but putting the stock wheels back on makes no sense. Do what you want but personally I would only put the stock intake back on.

[wavery]

The exhaust is just cat back, sorry I should of specified that.

That's why the dealer said not to worry about it.

 

I would return your intake to stock until you've dealt with this issue.

 

I honestly think the dealer is being reasonable and acting in your best interest.

[redjewel2ss]

i agree with Wavery, just put the stock intake back on and leave everything else as is. no way they can deny warranty on oil consumption based on different wheels/tires or cat-back exhaust.

 

even though YOU KNOW the intake had nothing to do with it, it is technically "attached directly" to the engine so it MIGHT cause a problem with any claims.

[old-chevy-dude]

hen most think about.

 

 

---------------------------- BTW.... this statement: " if any manufacturer tried to deny me warranty, for example, if i had a cracked head on the basis that i "installed an intake". I can "almost" guarantee that i'd win that court battle..."

-----------I can almost guarantee you that you would lose. It has been my experience that the courts take a very dimm view on modifying a vehicle from manufacturers specs. If a customer modifies an eggine in any way, they are taking the risk of losing their engine warranty and the courts normall back that up. I have seen many cases fought and every single one lost.

 

 

 

and I know of one that was just won.. (against Chrysler)

 

 

Got a buddy in my Mopar club, has a 2005 Dodge Magnum, He installed a shaker hood with the shaker plumbed to the throttle body.. OEM intake gone. He also has Gibson Shorty Headers on it.. (In SoCal BTW)

 

 

he started getting a misfired on #7 and a lot of oil seepage from the crank case breather hose that was plumbed to the shaker, he took it to the dealer, now he has an extended warranty $100 deductible, not just the power-train warranty. They put a camera thru the spark plug holes on #7 and it clearly shows the cylinder is cracked. Engine tear down and compression ring on #7 was cracked, the piston slammed the valves so the head was shot as well.

 

 

Diagnoses: New long block.. Warranty denied because of the intake and exhaust..

 

--

 

Now the 2005 and 2006 5.7L Hemi has a KNOWN and well documented issue with a lean condition on cylinders #1 and #7 due to a poorly designed fuel rail system, it is well known in the Mopar world, and there are several TSB's and Official Chrysler memos out regarding how a dealer is to handle the issue if presented.

 

Now I will admit that the intake and headers "may have" caused a further problem by leaning out the mix even more, however since it is a well known and documented issue on completely stock vehicles in theory it should be a no brainer for the dealer, just replace the motor.

 

George's warranty was denied, he hired a attorney and took it to the box.. at the first arbitration the Chrysler rep conceded after being presented with massive documentation from internet forums, Chrysler issued TSB's and Internal Chrysler Memo's (that were posted and pulled offline) about the issue..

 

George got a new long block for his $100 deductible, the decision was handed down last Wednesday and they are currently installing it. In addition Chrysler has waived the near 18 months of dealer stoarge fees as the motor was torn down, and law suit filed George couldn't remove the vehicle from the dealer lot and they started billing him $28 a day...

 

 

 

--

 

It works both ways, the difference is going into court prepared.. GM has a known and well documented issue with oil consumption, no different that Chrysler had with a known motor failure due to a bad fuel rail design..

 

 

--

 

Now I am not saying the OP shouldn't return his vehicle to stock, I completely agree it will reduce the frustration he will get from the GM rep, I'm just saying that it is completely possible for him to win if he takes it to the box because this is a well known and internet visable issue. 25 years ago maybe not, but in todays Social Media World, there is just too much documentation available to the common man for big companies like GM to step on you.. Go in with your guns loaded and you will come out a winner, go in with nothing but your "feelings" and yeah you will lose.

[ChevyTech77]

Yeah hell, some douche bag around here recently got a new 6l put in his modded 'Burb because of severe internal engine damaged and it had an aftermarket cal headers and all. What? Just larger tires, aftermarket exhaust and an aftermarket cai? Pfff, you're more than good, I figure.

 

Some of these discussions never cease to amaze me.........

[asc08]

In the middle of an oil use analysis, I would have an issue if someone were to put a level kit on the vehicle as well. NO, THE LEVEL WILL NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH OIL USE, but it will change the way the truck sits, and may have an impact on how the oil level is read on the dipstick.

 

As long as all of the tires are the same size, swapping rims and tires will alter the vehicle height uniformly, and with the vehicle sitting on the floor of the dealership shop, will have no effect, but if you check the oil on day one of the test, with a vehicle that sags in the front, and then you bring the levelled vehicle back in, even if there was zero oil consumption, you MAY get a different reading on the dipstick.

 

If the dealer were checking the oil level in a levelled truck from day one, there would be no difference in how the truck sits, should be no problem, but I can see where they may get a little heartburn when the levelling kit was added in the middle of a consumption test.

[wavery]

Yeah hell, some douche bag around here recently got a new 6l put in his modded 'Burb because of severe internal engine damaged and it had an aftermarket cal headers and all. What? Just larger tires, aftermarket exhaust and an aftermarket cai? Pfff, you're more than good, I figure.

 

Some of these discussions never cease to amaze me.........

As you and I well know, a lot of these decisions have to do with the customer's attitude and/or who he knows. It shouldn't be that way but that's life........ Sooner or later,,,, we all learn that "All things were not created equal".

[possin08]

Yeah hell, some douche bag around here recently got a new 6l put in his modded 'Burb because of severe internal engine damaged and it had an aftermarket cal headers and all. What? Just larger tires, aftermarket exhaust and an aftermarket cai? Pfff, you're more than good, I figure.

 

Some of these discussions never cease to amaze me.........

As you and I well know, a lot of these decisions have to do with the customer's attitude and/or who he knows. It shouldn't be that way but that's life........ Sooner or later,,,, we all learn that "All things were not created equal".

 

 

I agree with you here and in this case I do know the owner of the dealership and if need be I will get him involved, but as I said before the easiest way I see here to get this done the quickest is to just do what was suggested so everyone is happy and we don't delay this process anymore than it should be.

[Z45]

Its perception, when people see big tires, loud exhaust and even a cold air intake they will assume its a hot rod and is treated as such. I know I do.