Turbocharger vs Supercharger

[66nova]

Back to the topic

 

I'll concede and say that it may very well be possible to get 480hp with a cam and supporting mods. I still don't feel like that power will be usable in a 5500lb truck unless drag racing is the only thing the OP is after.

 

It really boils down to three options IMHO.

1. Roots style SC

 

2. Centrifugal SC

 

3. Turbo

 

As a general rule (yes there is alway exceptions) 1. Is going to be more ideal for torque/towing/daily drivers. It may not be the fastest but can certainly get you to 12s and has the most usable power below peak.

2. Good cost effective option for good peak hp. They continue to build boost until the shift point. I have seen a procharged 2008 denali run 12.2x with just a procharger headers and tune. Not as great for towing as a Maggie/whipple etc

3. Going to give you the most all out power potential. I think very few will argue with that. If drag racing is your main goal, then turbo is the answer. For daily driving and towing you're going to have some turbo lag. Even the best designed system will have some. It's the nature of the beast.

 

I personally just went through this thought process. I picked Maggie for the reasons I have already mentioned in this thread. The customer service is great. The kit they sent is amazing, absolutely everything you need for the install minus tools. And Justin (black bear performance) speaks very highly of them. That carries a lot of weight for me. Justin sells almost all the available Superchargers.

[Prokopchuk_9]

Ok Chevy boy tell Jon you will race him off road, turn 11 in the 1/4 mile, and drive it every day to work. That's what can do with a diesel you cant do very easy with a gas, or with a supercharger. Trying to stay close to the purpose of this post.

 

11? I wish man!

[Prokopchuk_9]

Back to the topic

 

I'll concede and say that it may very well be possible to get 480hp with a cam and supporting mods. I still don't feel like that power will be usable in a 5500lb truck unless drag racing is the only thing the OP is after.

 

It really boils down to three options IMHO.

1. Roots style SC

 

2. Centrifugal SC

 

3. Turbo

 

As a general rule (yes there is alway exceptions) 1. Is going to be more ideal for torque/towing/daily drivers. It may not be the fastest but can certainly get you to 12s and has the most usable power below peak.

2. Good cost effective option for good peak hp. They continue to build boost until the shift point. I have seen a procharged 2008 denali run 12.2x with just a procharger headers and tune. Not as great for towing as a Maggie/whipple etc

3. Going to give you the most all out power potential. I think very few will argue with that. If drag racing is your main goal, then turbo is the answer. For daily driving and towing you're going to have some turbo lag. Even the best designed system will have some. It's the nature of the beast.

 

I personally just went through this thought process. I picked Maggie for the reasons I have already mentioned in this thread. The customer service is great. The kit they sent is amazing, absolutely everything you need for the install minus tools. And Justin (black bear performance) speaks very highly of them. That carries a lot of weight for me. Justin sells almost all the available Superchargers.

Is the price comparable with those 3?

[66nova]

Back to the topic

I'll concede and say that it may very well be possible to get 480hp with a cam and supporting mods. I still don't feel like that power will be usable in a 5500lb truck unless drag racing is the only thing the OP is after.

It really boils down to three options IMHO.

1. Roots style SC

2. Centrifugal SC

3. Turbo

As a general rule (yes there is alway exceptions) 1. Is going to be more ideal for torque/towing/daily drivers. It may not be the fastest but can certainly get you to 12s and has the most usable power below peak.

2. Good cost effective option for good peak hp. They continue to build boost until the shift point. I have seen a procharged 2008 denali run 12.2x with just a procharger headers and tune. Not as great for towing as a Maggie/whipple etc

3. Going to give you the most all out power potential. I think very few will argue with that. If drag racing is your main goal, then turbo is the answer. For daily driving and towing you're going to have some turbo lag. Even the best designed system will have some. It's the nature of the beast.

I personally just went through this thought process. I picked Maggie for the reasons I have already mentioned in this thread. The customer service is great. The kit they sent is amazing, absolutely everything you need for the install minus tools. And Justin (black bear performance) speaks very highly of them. That carries a lot of weight for me. Justin sells almost all the available Superchargers.

 

Is the price comparable with those 3?

 

Comparable is relative. They are all probably with in $1500-2000 of each other. This also depends on who is doing the work. For the actual kits price will go turbo, procharger, Maggie/whipple/kenne bell. But, install is where the it can get you. Easily $1000-2000 there.

 

The Maggie kits come with a very step by step book with pics. Most people with a little mechanical skill can put it on themselves.

 

[Prokopchuk_9]

I've installed turbos pretty straight forward really...never installed a blower though. I was more or less talking about the price of the actual kit. With no labour.

 

I'm thinkin what the cheapest way to hit 500hp would be...

[KARNUT]

11? I wish man!

The last person in my family to do a diesel was my nephew. He had an 05 4x4 Ram, it was lifted look similar to yours. He had about 5k in the engine same in the trans. He race at leased once a month, ran low 11s. He is a pipeline inspector drove it up and down pipelines every day. Some one offer him more than he had in it so its gone now.

[Jon A]

Back to the topic....

1. Roots style SC

2. Centrifugal SC

3. Turbo

 

OK, back to topic. I think your breakdown of the above is pretty well on. Here are my thoughts.

 

1) I think this probably does fit most peoples' uses and goals the best. Keep factory emissions, mileage (close maybe), even noise levels if you leave the exhaust stock. Good low end torque, instant throttle response, etc. Most tuners seem to be exceeding 600 HP at the flywheel fairly easily on otherwise stock 6.2's--even with stock exhaust manifolds--at pretty low boost levels ~6 psi. One example:

.

 

A set of headers would easily put it over 650, etc. With a cam, some head porting, etc, 700 at the flywheel is pretty easy.

 

2) I agree, not the best fit for a truck unless you're racing it only. It would certainly work well, I just think option 1 is better for most people unless you're trying to set records at the track.

 

3) Probably the most power potential. Lingenfelter, Hennessey, etc, all offer up to and exceeding 1,000 HP packages (which includes built bottom ends). Not really my area of expertise, but they sure look fun! If you want to set records at the track, this is probably the way to do it. Though if you don't, keep in mind this isn't some little 3 liter gas engine that needs turbos to make big power. If your goals aren't well over 600 RWHP, there might be easier ways to get there. The Hennessey kit makes over 600 RWHP on an otherwise pretty stock engine: http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/enliven-monday-morning-sounds-hennesseys-twin-turbo-corvette-stingray/#!zkUQF

 

Add cam, ported heads, etc and the sky is the limit.

 

4) I'd add a 4th to that list--Naturally Aspirated. That's the way I lean for racing cars around a roadcourse, but for heavy trucks that might do more towing than racing, etc, probably not. Though if you want big numbers you'll do some of the same things (cam, heads, etc at least) along with a power adder. There are cam/head packages available right now that are over 600 HP at the flywheel N/A. Strokers are closing in on 700. Remember these engines are still new so people are still figuring out how to get the most from them. Bolt a maggie on top of one of those and you'll have something!

 

Building a stroker is far more work than bolting on a set of twins, so I don’t expect many to go that route—except the types who want 1000+ with a set of twins. ;)

 

Here’s one big thing about N/A mods thought—you can get pretty significant gains for dramatically less money than the other options. Heads/cam packages will be available in the $2000 range, +/- depending upon how much porting you want, etc. They might require more wrenching to install, but they can be done in stages as well so if you’re on a budget, it might be attractive. A simple cam swap could offer big gains for a pretty small amount of money.

 

Something else—typically with most V8’s you figure an aftermarket heads/cam setup will add HP on the top end but not much in the middle or bottom—they’ll often hurt low RPM torque. While many kits for this engine will certainly follow that mold, that doesn’t have to be the case.

 

The AFM limits the total amount of lift the cam can have. When you get rid of that and limit VVT it should be possible for a cam to increase torque significantly across the RPM range. I expect you’ll even see “towing cams” offered for these trucks specifically sooner or later which will increase low and especially mid RPM torque. They’ll probably add a significant amount of HP as well—just not as much as a high RPM “racing cam” can.

 

Something like that will probably be the first “major” engine mod I look into if I get bored with boltons. Honestly I think the 6.2, tuned, with headers/cold air, etc, is easily more engine than is needed to tow anything a ½ ton should be towing. Any engine mods after that will pretty much just be for fun.

[66nova]

 

Lol

[Prokopchuk_9]

I watched a video somewhere and some guys made some ridiculous amount of hp with an old 4.8 with ARP studs and cam. And it actually held up for awhile!

[iCryWheniGoPoop]

If I boost, I'm turbo only. Of course I build my kits and being a specialty welder doesn't hurt. Lag, I have never built a kit where lag was an issue. What little lag it had, it more than made up for in power. Nothing makes power off the bottom and through the whole rpm range like a turbo, as long as it's loaded (besides N2O). They love tall gears and automatics with tight converters. Draw back is exhaust routing, but we have 2acres of space under the hood so not an issue. I'm leaning towards NA on this truck but I change my mind daily and if I do, then you can count on a nice 60-66mm tucked neatly under the hood, nestled in a nice little blanket, whistling as it goes down the track and hissing when it's done!

[Jon A]

now that this shlong swinging contest is over….you did get me on ur car tho i give ya that . i wanna know more about ur car man, you cant post a video ike that and not tell me! that second video that track looks friggin awesome and the car sounds awesme too!

 

 

Thanks. Sure:

 

 

It has been my "project" for many years. It’s still a street car, full interior, stereo—it even has A/C! I drive it to work a couple weeks a year and still drive it to the track quite often—especially when they’re just lapping/school days and not competition.

 

You’re probably most interested in the engine. It’s an old LT1 (vintage 1992 design warm-over of the original SBC) I built:

 

 

 

Here’s it’s best rear wheel dyno:

 

 

The car weighs 3500 lbs, which is pretty heavy for a “sports car” but pretty light compared with trucks.

 

It’s 357 cubes N/A, with a mild 11.2:1 compression (pump gas only), fairly mild hydraulic cam so it’s still streetable. I’ll get stuck on the freeway in traffic for hours sometimes coming home from the track so a high-compression solid roller, while offering a lot more power would not be a good choice.

 

The main reason it makes so much more power than typical stock cube LT1’s are the heads—I think I paid well over $3K for those things. The sad thing (or happy thing depending on how you look at it) is the new truck L86/LT1 heads flow just as well—stock from the factory and can be had for a couple hundred bucks (or free if you buy the truck they come attached to!). That’s how much better these things have gotten.

 

Comparing the truck engine to this old LT1, the new 6.2 has larger displacement, higher compression ratio, direct injection, variable valve timing, equal heads, better intake, much better ECM, much better ignition…all from the factory. If I can squeeze that much power out of that old POS, just imagine what I can do with this one if I put my mind to it….

[Prokopchuk_9]

11? I wish man!The last person in my family to do a diesel was my nephew. He had an 05 4x4 Ram, it was lifted look similar to yours. He had about 5k in the engine same in the trans. He race at leased once a month, ran low 11s. He is a pipeline inspector drove it up and down pipelines every day. Some one offer him more than he had in it so its gone now.

Little more than 5 grand to take that 5.9 into 1000+ HP category...

[kstruckcountry]

Yeah 1000tq easy. Hp gonna take more than that lol.

 

If I was going boosted, I'd trade my truck on a clean LBZ haha. Best power for the money by far.

 

But as far as boost on a gas pickup, I'd go magnacharger. Easy to tune and I love the sound under throttle.

[iCryWheniGoPoop]

Yeah 1000tq easy. Hp gonna take more than that lol. If I was going boosted, I'd trade my truck on a clean LBZ haha. Best power for the money by far. But as far as boost on a gas pickup, I'd go magnacharger. Easy to tune and I love the sound under throttle.

Gota love the LBZ, had a couple, and have tuned several that are running around terrorizing built cummins with no more that a tune, Air Dog, exhaust and shift improver.

[Prokopchuk_9]

Yeah 1000tq easy. Hp gonna take more than that lol. If I was going boosted, I'd trade my truck on a clean LBZ haha. Best power for the money by far. But as far as boost on a gas pickup, I'd go magnacharger. Easy to tune and I love the sound under throttle.

 

Gota love the LBZ, had a couple, and have tuned several that are running around terrorizing built cummins with no more that a tune, Air Dog, exhaust and shift improver.

I have fun with cumminGs guys that blow smoke and think their fast