switching to synthetic oil

[Cowpie]

Obviously, your intent is more contentious than to seek information. If you had even gone thru the home page of the PQIA site your question would be answered. They will put out notices of substandard oils and buyer warnings periodically. They even post warnings from various state agencies of consumer warnings regarding oils, transmission fluids, and coolants. Their home page is in a blog style format. Just scroll thru it and see the blog entries of testing and warnings.

 

Of the oils they do testing on, it is purely a numbers game. They analyze the product and post the formulation numbers. Pure and simple. Some of them are supporters, some are not. Shell oil is not a sponsor, yet has some the best test results. So that would also suggest they are not favoring only their sponsors.

[jimlem]

@OP- No intention to hijack but I don't see Cowpie around much anymore. I have a couple of questions for him that is on this oil subject. Thanks.

 

@Cowpie- Hey, it's been a while. If you don't mind I have a few questions about some of these oil posts in this thread.

 

- You don't seem to have a problem with synthetic blends so would you think GM's OEM blend would get you through your free 4 oil changes w/o any quality/failure problems? I know you don't care about the free ones and do all your own oil changes, but is there anything to be aware of regarding the GM OEM service oil?

 

- Any advantage in using something named an HD oil, like Shell's Rotella (sp?) oil in a 2014 little 5.3 V8? Or would this just be overkill or cost prohibitive?

 

- I read on here a ways back that oil, dino or synthetic doesn't actually ever wear out. Only the additive package breaks down and can actually be re-added to the oil at certain intervals for the life of the truck. Never change the oil, just refresh the add package. Ever heard this to be true or done in certain industries? Is it effective for a home mechanic or more trouble than it's worth?

 

- Does a large commercial diesel engine really take 10 GALLONs of oil? Seems expensive, very expensive. With 10 gal does that at least allow you to really stretch out oil change intervals compared to a GM 1500 or 2500?

 

Anyway, thanks for the time and any answers you could add here. I would hope it would be informative for all (not just me).

 

Jim

[Jsdirt]

My opinion on that is, GM is in the business of selling vehicles - not making them last forever. They're goal is to sell as many as possible without a failure UNTIL after the warranty period. With that in mind, I would not trust a GM labeled oil to be the best-of-the-best, that's for sure. I run Amsoil in everything I own, because I can't afford to buy a new truck every 6 years.

[Doug_Scott]

Oil may not wear out, but it does get dirty with particles smaller than the oil filter can trap.

 

Are you referring to the Shell Rotella T oil? If so, that oil is intended for diesel engines. As long as the oil you intend to use meets the minimum standards as defined by the manufacturer of your truck, it is safe to use. I have used the Shell Rotella T5 synthetic in my older Honda 1000cc v4 sport bikes for longer than I can recall. Bikes are different to automobiles primarily due to combined engine/transmission cases and having a wet clutch.

[barry G]

paper filters do nothing.

in fact if you got one to work, you would get wood acid on the back main bearings and rods.

pressure relief is the oil flow.

 

synthetic is good for any engine with injection. Carburator days used the regular oil to hide mistakes...oil that liked carbon.

today does not need to do that. since mid 90s anyway. Even the TBI engines responded good...early 90s, late 80s.

 

the most important factor for synthetic is temperature range/stamina.

 

aircraft have been using synthetic long before the real world even saw it.

 

the only question goes back to carb engines. Some of the seals used the flaws of both the old regular oil and gas to rebuild themselves. Today is a different world.

 

there is one dramatic event to stay careful in, and keep rpms down, even let the truck sit for long periods..perhaps in the cold:

the swap back to synthetic after years of regular. It has a lot of work to do to change the surfaces.

 

it may even drop pressure, because the synthetic viscosity does not need the kick of the old slop that was in it, all while being slicker and cooler.

[Jsdirt]

I've owned several carbureted vehicles, logging hundreds of thousands of miles on them using regular dino and synthetic. Either one worked fine - synthetic just leaked faster on the ones that were either overheated, or sat for years causing all the seals to dry up and harden like a brick.

[Cowpie]

What gets missed by a lot of folks is that there is a lot more to motor oil than oil. Upwards of 20% of a motor oil is additives for various intents. Friction modifiers link moly and titanium. Extreme Pressure additives like zinc and boron. Acid fighting via calcium and sodium. And the list goes on. Viscosity modifiers to enable multi viscosity features of motor oil. All of those can, and do, break down. It is true the oil itself doesn't break down. But the oil getting contaminated more over time, along with additive depletion and break down means it has to be changed out when appropriate. This doesn't matter if it is Amsoil or any other brand. Some brands are better at what a motor oil has to do than others. There are great conventional oils, great blends, and great full synthetics. There are lousy and mediocre versions of each also. I have long since gotten over the hype regarding synthetic vs conventional. I concentrate on the entire package of a motor oil.

[Doug_Scott]

paper filters do nothing.

in fact if you got one to work, you would get wood acid on the back main bearings and rods.

pressure relief is the oil flow.

 

 

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. Or what it is even referring to.

[Cowpie]

@OP- No intention to hijack but I don't see Cowpie around much anymore. I have a couple of questions for him that is on this oil subject. Thanks.

 

@Cowpie- Hey, it's been a while. If you don't mind I have a few questions about some of these oil posts in this thread.

 

- You don't seem to have a problem with synthetic blends so would you think GM's OEM blend would get you through your free 4 oil changes w/o any quality/failure problems? I know you don't care about the free ones and do all your own oil changes, but is there anything to be aware of regarding the GM OEM service oil?

 

- Any advantage in using something named an HD oil, like Shell's Rotella (sp?) oil in a 2014 little 5.3 V8? Or would this just be overkill or cost prohibitive?

 

- I read on here a ways back that oil, dino or synthetic doesn't actually ever wear out. Only the additive package breaks down and can actually be re-added to the oil at certain intervals for the life of the truck. Never change the oil, just refresh the add package. Ever heard this to be true or done in certain industries? Is it effective for a home mechanic or more trouble than it's worth?

 

- Does a large commercial diesel engine really take 10 GALLONs of oil? Seems expensive, very expensive. With 10 gal does that at least allow you to really stretch out oil change intervals compared to a GM 1500 or 2500?

 

Anyway, thanks for the time and any answers you could add here. I would hope it would be informative for all (not just me).

 

Jim

 

Yes, a semi truck diesel takes about 10 gallons of oil per oil change. The OEM recommended OCI is about 15,000 miles or 300 hrs. I stretch it to 25,000 miles or 500 hrs safely. I average about 135,000 miles a year with the semi.

 

The GM blend is fine for the free oil change period. It meets dexos1 minimum standards. After that, I would NOT use a HDEO in the GM gassers. First, HDEO's are typically not API SN and ILSAC GF-5 spec'd, which are comparable to the dexos1 spec. Dexos1 requires that the NOACK (burn off rate) be below 12%. It virtually requires a blend to do that, though some newer conventionals are getting to that level.

 

Me, personally, I like the better friction modifiers like moly and titanium in my motor oils. Many brands have a little bit, but I want a lot. That is why I use Schaeffer oils in all of my stuff from my semi truck to my previous 2013 1500 5.3 to my current 2015 2500 6.0. Moly is akin to having a new deck of playing cards on the table, only at the sub micron level. As you push and move sideways, the cards slide over each other and eliminate any friction between your hand and the table. Moly is a plated mineral that is similar to playing cards in how it does its thing. There is no buildup, as any excess is skimmed off and remains in suspension in the oil. Titanium has a similar characteristic. One thing they both do, is that they fill the sub microscopic hills and valleys that are part of even the most polished and finished surfaces, and eliminates metal to metal contact between components. This is not to be confused with graphite and other stuff, which actually can build up and cause damage. Moly is a well proven friction modifier originally used by the military when jet engines first came on the scene, and has been used since.

 

Additives can be fortified, but that is not the only problem. A lot of testing has been done on motor oils and it shows that as TBN (total base number, or acid fighting component) decreases, TAN (total acid number) increases. TAN rises gradually until TBN reaches 50% depletion, then TAN takes off like a rocket sled and increases rapidly. At 65% TBN depletion, the oil should be changed out. While one could theoretically increase the additives that make up the TBN, the acids are rising dramatically at the same time and defeating the purpose. Just change the oil. And while all of this is going on, wear metals, silicon (dirt), and other contaminates are building up. They actually take a toll, though a minor one, on the motor internals. There is a limit at which one needs to get that junk out of there. And more advanced filtration is to going to make much of a dent on wear metal saturation. They are soluble, sub micron sized and even the best bypass filter will not get them out of the oil.

[jimlem]

Oil may not wear out, but it does get dirty with particles smaller than the oil filter can trap.

 

Are you referring to the Shell Rotella T oil? If so, that oil is intended for diesel engines. As long as the oil you intend to use meets the minimum standards as defined by the manufacturer of your truck, it is safe to use. I have used the Shell Rotella T5 synthetic in my older Honda 1000cc v4 sport bikes for longer than I can recall. Bikes are different to automobiles primarily due to combined engine/transmission cases and having a wet clutch.

Yeah I think that was part of the deal: Basically Change filters once a year or so, top off whatever tiny bit of oil is lost and then refurb additive package when needed as decided by someone smarter than me. I think it was just a proof of concept thing that oil itself would never breakdown. I think the write up was by some oil engineer on the site, "Bobstheoilguy" (sp?) IIRC, it was a while ago. Just found it interesting, not something I, or most others would try.

[jimlem]

 

Yes, a semi truck diesel takes about 10 gallons of oil per oil change. The OEM recommended OCI is about 15,000 miles or 300 hrs. I stretch it to 25,000 miles or 500 hrs safely. I average about 135,000 miles a year with the semi.

 

The GM blend is fine for the free oil change period. It meets dexos1 minimum standards. After that, I would NOT use a HDEO in the GM gassers. First, HDEO's are typically not API SN and ILSAC GF-5 spec'd, which are comparable to the dexos1 spec. Dexos1 requires that the NOACK (burn off rate) be below 12%. It virtually requires a blend to do that, though some newer conventionals are getting to that level.

 

Me, personally, I like the better friction modifiers like moly and titanium in my motor oils. Many brands have a little bit, but I want a lot. That is why I use Schaeffer oils in all of my stuff from my semi truck to my previous 2013 1500 5.3 to my current 2015 2500 6.0. Moly is akin to having a new deck of playing cards on the table, only at the sub micron level. As you push and move sideways, the cards slide over each other and eliminate any friction between your hand and the table. Moly is a plated mineral that is similar to playing cards in how it does its thing. There is no buildup, as any excess is skimmed off and remains in suspension in the oil. Titanium has a similar characteristic. One thing they both do, is that they fill the sub microscopic hills and valleys that are part of even the most polished and finished surfaces, and eliminates metal to metal contact between components. This is not to be confused with graphite and other stuff, which actually can build up and cause damage. Moly is a well proven friction modifier originally used by the military when jet engines first came on the scene, and has been used since.

 

Additives can be fortified, but that is not the only problem. A lot of testing has been done on motor oils and it shows that as TBN (total base number, or acid fighting component) decreases, TAN (total acid number) increases. TAN rises gradually until TBN reaches 50% depletion, then TAN takes off like a rocket sled and increases rapidly. At 65% TBN depletion, the oil should be changed out. While one could theoretically increase the additives that make up the TBN, the acids are rising dramatically at the same time and defeating the purpose. Just change the oil. And while all of this is going on, wear metals, silicon (dirt), and other contaminates are building up. They actually take a toll, though a minor one, on the motor internals. There is a limit at which one needs to get that junk out of there. And more advanced filtration is to going to make much of a dent on wear metal saturation. They are soluble, sub micron sized and even the best bypass filter will not get them out of the oil.

 

As always, thanks for the straight, easy to understand answers. I never intended to do the "never change oil practice" to my truck. I'm not that cheap. I was just curious. See previous post. I've never seen Schaeffer oils in So Cal anywhere. Know of some place around here? Are they Dexos ll approved? I would be interested in trying it if it was available.

 

I usually go with Mobil One full synthetic 0W-20 extended change interval (15K mi). And then change it at 5K miles - 7500 miles, long before the 15K interval. I figure I'm always keeping quality, fresh oil right up to the next change. Thanks for the info and answers.

 

Jim

[Mark Gutierrez]

I saw a few mentions of AMSOIL, i've been told to try them but have been religious to Royal Purple and their Filters. I drive alot and am looking into doing my first oil change on my 2015 Silverado 1500 4x4 with the 5.3 engine. Anyone put Royal Purple in their trucks? This is my first truck in a long time, i ran RoyalPurple in my jeep and never had an issue with it as i switched to RP after 2 or 3rd oil change after i bought it.

[Doug_Scott]

I saw a few mentions of AMSOIL, i've been told to try them but have been religious to Royal Purple and their Filters. I drive alot and am looking into doing my first oil change on my 2015 Silverado 1500 4x4 with the 5.3 engine. Anyone put Royal Purple in their trucks? This is my first truck in a long time, i ran RoyalPurple in my jeep and never had an issue with it as i switched to RP after 2 or 3rd oil change after i bought it.

 

I have used RP since first oil change on my 2010 Sierra 4.8. Have had no issues. I am one of those that simply follows the manufacturer specs. As long as the oil meets the standards, you should not have any issues. That is why the standards are there.

 

GM has been demanding dexos1 oil for about 5 or 6 years now. RP meets that spec, but last time I checked they are not "certified". To the consumer, that difference is moot. To Royal Purple the difference is huge. In order to be a "certified" dexos1 oil, you must pay GM a royalty fee on every litre of oil sold. To "meet" the standard, the oil must do just that, meet the requirements. Meeting the requirements does not require royalty payments to GM.

[Mark Gutierrez]

have you tried RP oil filter, seems much more solid then fram and k&n.

[Doug_Scott]

have you tried RP oil filter, seems much more solid then fram and k&n.

 

Nope. I generally use the GM filter(I get a discount on them). I am not a believer in the "bobstheoilguy" spiel. Have never seen an oil filter fail the way that site claims they fail. All that emphasis on the anti drain back valve is not relative to GM v8 engines. The oil filter hangs off the engine, with the open side up. Filter stays full. Hard to overcome gravity.