Creating LTZ Z71 to tow Max trailer weight

[Spurshot]

... If Chevrolet states that It can tow 12,000 lb, why isn't it safe?

 

 

I think you're looking at it in terms of black and white. Safety is not black and white. Safety is about risk....acceptable risk and unacceptable risk. We all know no trailer towing setup is going to be "as safe" as the same vehicle without the trailer. It's 'added risk' that we are talking about and whether it's "acceptable risk".

 

Chevrolet decided to jump into the towing capacity wars with all the other makers so they can compete in sales. Most people never tow with their trucks, but they like the stats. The reality is more complex as stated in the last post about all the other limits.

 

Between 3000 and 4000 people a year are killed in towing accidents in the U.S..

 

Chevrolet engineers and marketing departments made a decision on the level of risk they find "acceptable" for maximum towing. They are fully aware that only a very small number of owners will get anywhere near that limit and then only on very few occasions/miles driven. They know some very small number of owners that max out the towing capacity will be in accidents. They calculate the probability of these events and decided the overall exposure was acceptable. Not zero exposure. Not safe/unsafe. This is basically how any product that has a safety analysis is managed.

 

You I just don't want to skew the risk to the limits. That drastically increases the probability of becoming an "acceptable" statistic.

[JoeM21]

Do the math.

 

Yours was an excellent post. I've always been surprised at how many people I see towing horses who have no idea of that information. I'm also surprised at how many car dealers don't understand that information and unintentionally mislead buyers. The marketing has certainly made things more confusing.

[calgator73]

How to say I was impressed that was really thorough. And never order your trailer and then buy your truck based on what the brochure says your trailer supposed to weigh. I found that out the hard way. Tongue weight was off by 300 lb and total weight was off by 600 lb

 

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[Pacfanweb]

 

 

 

 

Chevrolet engineers and marketing departments made a decision on the level of risk they find "acceptable" for maximum towing. They are fully aware that only a very small number of owners will get anywhere near that limit and then only on very few occasions/miles driven. They know some very small number of owners that max out the towing capacity will be in accidents. They calculate the probability of these events and decided the overall exposure was acceptable. Not zero exposure. Not safe/unsafe. This is basically how any product that has a safety analysis is managed.

 

 

 

This is just exactly right.

 

People will say "Well, the manufacturer says my truck can tow 12k lbs, and they wouldn't say that if it couldn't.

 

Well....they most certainly WOULD, and they most certainly DO. They are playing the odds that few people will actually try and tow up near the limit.

 

Remember, these are the same folks who designed the leaking shark fin antennas, these numb-nutted shifting transmissions and all the "built-in" vibrations folks complain about, and say they are "normal".

 

Then the marketing folks get ahold of the engineers and say "Ford just upped their tow rating for the 150 by 650 lbs. We need another 700 so we can stay ahead of them". And the engineers say "sure, we'll just rate a base model in only one configuration with the lowest gear and largest motor and everyone will just look at the number and not the fine print".

 

Don't think that it does not work about that way.

[calgator73]

J2807 prevents a lot of those shenanigans

 

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[Pacfanweb]

J2807 prevents a lot of those shenanigans

 

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You'd think, but fact is, Chevy's highest tow rating only applies to a certain model. None of the rest of the Silverado/Sierra line can tow that much, some nowhere NEAR that much. And what you see on ads is "Can tow up to 12k...when properly equipped".

But the consumer tends to not process that last part.

[Silverado1500HighCountry]

Why? If Chevrolet states that It can tow 12,000 lb, why isn't it safe?

agreed.

[joshc64311]

Because math.

 

No truck can actually tow the rated amount. It's figured on a base model, with 1/4 tank of gas, no gear, no passengers and about a 150lb driver.

 

Every single thing you add to that truck takes away from how much it can tow. Want a sunroof and/or sliding rear glass? Adds weight, reduces tow and hauling capacity. Fill up the tank? Take that weight away. Couple coolers and some gear in the bed? Takes away from the tow capacity.

Couple buddies with you? Better weigh them. And on and on. How much tongue weight is allowed? Good luck staying under that with a max capacity trailer...and oh, wait: The tongue weight also counts against the truck's hauling capacity. Tongue weight and 2 big friends, and you're probably close to or over the max that truck's supposed to carry on its own springs.

 

You need to do what almost nobody does....look at the ratings. ALL the ratings. It's not as simple as just looking at the tow capacity and hooking it up.

Tow capacity

Tongue weight

Truck's cargo/hauling capacity

Combined vehicle tow rating

 

There's about no way you can be under all of those and pull anywhere near the max capacity. Max tow rating is advertising, pure and simple. General rule of thumb is the stay at about 75-80% of the rated capacity as a max.

 

Another way to think of this: What has changed over the last 10-20 years to make these tow ratings go up so much? 1/2 ton trucks in 2001 sure as hell weren't rated to tow 12k lbs. Why are they now? Are the somehow "heavier duty"? Sure, they have more HP, but that's irrelevant to tow ratings. Doesn't matter at all. 1 ton trucks in the mid-90's had a lot less HP than my 15 Sierra, but they were still rated to tow more because the TRUCK ITSELF was heavier-duty.

 

Are the new 1/2 ton trucks now equivalent to the 3/4 tons of 15 years ago? We all know darn well they are not, not even close. And especially not with P tires and not LT's. It's all an advertising gimmick, plain and simple.

The manufacturers know that if you actually do the math, these trucks cannot get close to what they're rated, and they also know nobody is going to buy a base model and leave the tank almost empty with absolutely nothing in the truck so they can tow the max.

 

No 1/2 ton should even think of towing 12k lbs. Do the math. Go weigh your truck. Actually weigh the trailer. Then do the math. You might be shocked if you think I'm not telling the truth.

 

Here's how to do it, for those interested:

 

Look at the fine print. I have a 15 Sierra SLT 4x4, short box crew. GM's chart says in the fine print "Before you buy a vehicle or use it for trailering, carefully review the Trailering section of the Owners Manual. The weight of passengers, cargo and options or accessories may reduce the amount you can tow"

 

There you go. That pretty much tells you no actual truck that anyone would buy can hit that max rating under real world conditions.

 

But, here's how you see what you CAN tow:

 

Find YOUR particular vehicle's tow rating.

 

My Sierra, with 5.3, 4x4 and 3.08 gears is 6,100 lbs. (I've seen it listed as 6,200 also)

 

Then find your hauling or cargo (Payload) capacity. Look at the door jamb sticker.

Mine says "The combined weight of cargo and occupants should not exceed 1,532 lbs"

But "the chart" from GM says max payload is 1,820 lbs. Guess mine has almost 300 lbs of options that reduce it. They add up.

BTW, that "cargo and occupants" also means you have to account for the weight of gas.

 

Then your tongue weight. I don't have that on hand at the moment, but I've typically seen 500 lbs.

 

So some quick math:

Me and the family together weigh about 750lbs. Fuel capacity is 26 gallons, so let's say 20 gallons since the capacity is figured usually with 1/4 tank. That's another 120 lbs. That's 870lbs of payload already, and we don't have anything with us.

Let's say I can hit exactly 500 lbs of tongue weight. That's 1,370 lbs of the 1,532 lb payload capacity of my truck, and we don't have the first piece of actual cargo on it, yet.

 

I can now carry 152 lbs of cargo, and if we're going to the lake, we have that EASILY. So my truck is loaded to the gills without even looking like it, and we still have an extra seat nobody's sitting in. Can't take anyone with us, whether we're towing a trailer at capacity or not.

 

But here's where they've fooled you:

So I'm at the max payload of my truck, right? What IS that total weight? You need your curb weight, then the weight of your passengers/cargo to know.

Why do you need to know before you know how much you can pull?

 

This: Gross Combined Weight Rating. That's how much BOTH truck and trailer are allowed to weigh, combined.

Now I don't have my window sticker handy at the moment, but I believe your average curb weight of a truck like mine is in the 5,500 lb range, correct? And I have loaded my truck with the max of 1,532 lbs, so my total truck weight would be about 7,032 lbs, give or take.

 

 

My GCWR is 12,000 lbs. That means I have less than 5,000 lbs left for my trailer to weigh, fully loaded. Remove some weight from the truck, trailer weight can go up.

And that doesn't mean I can buy a trailer that weighs that much, then load it up. That's all it can weigh, fully-loaded and ready to go. So if you are going to pull a camper, remember that you're going to load that with EASILY 1,000 lbs. It's got to be under 4k lbs empty. Same for a boat.

 

That's about the most you can tow with my particular truck, roughly.

 

Do the math.

 

Because math.

 

No truck can actually tow the rated amount. It's figured on a base model, with 1/4 tank of gas, no gear, no passengers and about a 150lb driver.

 

Every single thing you add to that truck takes away from how much it can tow. Want a sunroof and/or sliding rear glass? Adds weight, reduces tow and hauling capacity. Fill up the tank? Take that weight away. Couple coolers and some gear in the bed? Takes away from the tow capacity.

Couple buddies with you? Better weigh them. And on and on. How much tongue weight is allowed? Good luck staying under that with a max capacity trailer...and oh, wait: The tongue weight also counts against the truck's hauling capacity. Tongue weight and 2 big friends, and you're probably close to or over the max that truck's supposed to carry on its own springs.

 

You need to do what almost nobody does....look at the ratings. ALL the ratings. It's not as simple as just looking at the tow capacity and hooking it up.

Tow capacity

Tongue weight

Truck's cargo/hauling capacity

Combined vehicle tow rating

 

There's about no way you can be under all of those and pull anywhere near the max capacity. Max tow rating is advertising, pure and simple. General rule of thumb is the stay at about 75-80% of the rated capacity as a max.

 

Another way to think of this: What has changed over the last 10-20 years to make these tow ratings go up so much? 1/2 ton trucks in 2001 sure as hell weren't rated to tow 12k lbs. Why are they now? Are the somehow "heavier duty"? Sure, they have more HP, but that's irrelevant to tow ratings. Doesn't matter at all. 1 ton trucks in the mid-90's had a lot less HP than my 15 Sierra, but they were still rated to tow more because the TRUCK ITSELF was heavier-duty.

 

Are the new 1/2 ton trucks now equivalent to the 3/4 tons of 15 years ago? We all know darn well they are not, not even close. And especially not with P tires and not LT's. It's all an advertising gimmick, plain and simple.

The manufacturers know that if you actually do the math, these trucks cannot get close to what they're rated, and they also know nobody is going to buy a base model and leave the tank almost empty with absolutely nothing in the truck so they can tow the max.

 

No 1/2 ton should even think of towing 12k lbs. Do the math. Go weigh your truck. Actually weigh the trailer. Then do the math. You might be shocked if you think I'm not telling the truth.

 

Here's how to do it, for those interested:

 

Look at the fine print. I have a 15 Sierra SLT 4x4, short box crew. GM's chart says in the fine print "Before you buy a vehicle or use it for trailering, carefully review the Trailering section of the Owners Manual. The weight of passengers, cargo and options or accessories may reduce the amount you can tow"

 

There you go. That pretty much tells you no actual truck that anyone would buy can hit that max rating under real world conditions.

 

But, here's how you see what you CAN tow:

 

Find YOUR particular vehicle's tow rating.

 

My Sierra, with 5.3, 4x4 and 3.08 gears is 6,100 lbs. (I've seen it listed as 6,200 also)

 

Then find your hauling or cargo (Payload) capacity. Look at the door jamb sticker.

Mine says "The combined weight of cargo and occupants should not exceed 1,532 lbs"

But "the chart" from GM says max payload is 1,820 lbs. Guess mine has almost 300 lbs of options that reduce it. They add up.

BTW, that "cargo and occupants" also means you have to account for the weight of gas.

 

Then your tongue weight. I don't have that on hand at the moment, but I've typically seen 500 lbs.

 

So some quick math:

Me and the family together weigh about 750lbs. Fuel capacity is 26 gallons, so let's say 20 gallons since the capacity is figured usually with 1/4 tank. That's another 120 lbs. That's 870lbs of payload already, and we don't have anything with us.

Let's say I can hit exactly 500 lbs of tongue weight. That's 1,370 lbs of the 1,532 lb payload capacity of my truck, and we don't have the first piece of actual cargo on it, yet.

 

I can now carry 152 lbs of cargo, and if we're going to the lake, we have that EASILY. So my truck is loaded to the gills without even looking like it, and we still have an extra seat nobody's sitting in. Can't take anyone with us, whether we're towing a trailer at capacity or not.

 

But here's where they've fooled you:

So I'm at the max payload of my truck, right? What IS that total weight? You need your curb weight, then the weight of your passengers/cargo to know.

Why do you need to know before you know how much you can pull?

 

This: Gross Combined Weight Rating. That's how much BOTH truck and trailer are allowed to weigh, combined.

Now I don't have my window sticker handy at the moment, but I believe your average curb weight of a truck like mine is in the 5,500 lb range, correct? And I have loaded my truck with the max of 1,532 lbs, so my total truck weight would be about 7,032 lbs, give or take.

 

 

My GCWR is 12,000 lbs. That means I have less than 5,000 lbs left for my trailer to weigh, fully loaded. Remove some weight from the truck, trailer weight can go up.

And that doesn't mean I can buy a trailer that weighs that much, then load it up. That's all it can weigh, fully-loaded and ready to go. So if you are going to pull a camper, remember that you're going to load that with EASILY 1,000 lbs. It's got to be under 4k lbs empty. Same for a boat.

 

That's about the most you can tow with my particular truck, roughly.

 

Do the math.

 

Mic drop lol walks off stage