Truck Bros, school me on the need for a catch can.

TXGREEK · November 17, 2019

800ish?

At what mileage do you think you’ll be looking to see what your engines internals will look like with catch can and will you ever tear down your engine or run scope through to see what your engines internal look like?? “Maybe” you’ll be the first to actually show proof that a can helps keep a cleaner engine and if not, just more he said she said. I’d follow your post if you were to start one on it!

Sent from Above

Cowpie · November 18, 2019

It would not be a disaster for the OEM to install a air / oil separator, or "catch can" on these engines if they did it like the heavy diesel OEM's do. All of those heavy diesels have air / oil separators on the PCV systems. In their case, what is captured out of the PCV system is allowed to drain back into the engine oil sump. There is nothing that end user has to dump. Just a filter change on the air / oil separator at specified intervals, which I believe is around 250,000 miles.

The only reason this sort of thing could be a disaster is some are assuming a catch system from the OEM would be similar to the third party stuff some of us have on our motors that requires user interaction to dump the reservoir.

Edited November 18, 2019 by Cowpie

RaisedByWolves · November 18, 2019

20 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

At what mileage do you think you’ll be looking to see what your engines internals will look like with catch can and will you ever tear down your engine or run scope through to see what your engines internal look like?? “Maybe” you’ll be the first to actually show proof that a can helps keep a cleaner engine and if not, just more he said she said. I’d follow your post if you were to start one on it!

Sent from Above

I asked about the product you mentioned and you come up with this lamebrained shit?

You aren't even proposing a side by side comparison for gods sake.

TXGREEK · November 18, 2019

I asked about the product you mentioned and you come up with this lamebrained shit?

You aren't even proposing a side by side comparison for gods sake.

You asked complete strangers to talk you into whether or not you need a catch can, not sure why you’ve become so defensive, I didn’t quote you on the fuel cleaner. It’s apparent that you don’t realize that to this day, there’s not been one person that’s shown results of internal engine parts with and without a catch can.
Asking if you’re going to start a new thread on doing so has apparently put you on the spot or made you very uncomfortable which wasn’t my intention. You’ve been talked into buying a catch can with zero proof of with and without and now “you too” will start collecting condensation mixed with oil vapors requiring draining.
I do believe, may be mistaken, there are a few forums that collect posted pictures and you too may have your pictures used as evidence of what’s collected in a catch can and that’s it.
You’re not the first person asking to be talked into something with zero proof and you won’t be the last.

Good luck and take care!

Sent from Above

RaisedByWolves · November 19, 2019

21 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

You asked complete strangers to talk you into whether or not you need a catch can, not sure why you’ve become so defensive, I didn’t quote you on the fuel cleaner. It’s apparent that you don’t realize that to this day, there’s not been one person that’s shown results of internal engine parts with and without a catch can.
Asking if you’re going to start a new thread on doing so has apparently put you on the spot or made you very uncomfortable which wasn’t my intention. You’ve been talked into buying a catch can with zero proof of with and without and now “you too” will start collecting condensation mixed with oil vapors requiring draining.
I do believe, may be mistaken, there are a few forums that collect posted pictures and you too may have your pictures used as evidence of what’s collected in a catch can and that’s it.
You’re not the first person asking to be talked into something with zero proof and you won’t be the last.

Good luck and take care!

Sent from Above

All those words and yet you said nothing of value.

I appreciate your input.

Edited November 19, 2019 by RaisedByWolves

lapoolboy · November 19, 2019

21 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

collecting condensation mixed with oil vapors requiring draining.

What more proof are you looking for? You said yourself the cans collect condensation and vapors. That's the whole point of them and you just confirmed it. I would rather collect the junk in a can than have it re-enter the intake and coat/clog the intake runners, valves, etc. I don't mind the 20 second process of draining the can every couple of weeks because I'm not lazy.

@RaisedByWolves: I've had a can on my last two trucks and I'm a deplorable who believes in them. I have had the intake off my last truck when I installed the Whipple so I know firsthand what the inside of the intake and the backside of the valves can look like with vs. without a catch can. After seeing that, I will spend the $200 to have a can from now on. Let me know if you have any specific questions. I just ordered another one for my new 2019.

TXGREEK · November 19, 2019

What more proof are you looking for? You said yourself the cans collect condensation and vapors. That's the whole point of them and you just confirmed it. I would rather collect the junk in a can than have it re-enter the intake and coat/clog the intake runners, valves, etc. I don't mind the 20 second process of draining the can every couple of weeks because I'm not lazy.

@RaisedByWolves: I've had a can on my last two trucks and I'm a deplorable who believes in them. I have had the intake off my last truck when I installed the Whipple so I know firsthand what the inside of the intake and the backside of the valves can look like with vs. without a catch can. After seeing that, I will spend the $200 to have a can from now on. Let me know if you have any specific questions. I just ordered another one for my new 2019.

I’ve even considered a having a can installed, just don’t want my warranty voided in the event a warranty issue comes into play. Not saying they’re bad! It’s questionable to weather the can adds much more condensation. DI motors definitely have this carbon burn off problem but the can has been known to also add to the moisture buildup. The Catch Can is a great idea but there’s ZERO PROOF of it catching or creating because NO ONE has performed this breakdown. You can wear a mask to keep you from breathing toxic air but you still absorb it through your skin, cans are known to create moisture buildup as well as problems in freezing temperatures. Worth it? To some yes, to others no.

My 16 Yukon xl 5.3 had carbon build up that required a clean out at the dealership at only 12k miles, added Lucas Fuel treatment and kept adding it every other tank with never having the issue EVER again. I‘ve got an 18 6.2, run nothing but Amsoil Sig Series because of its very low burn off rate when compared to full synthetics and OCI’s every4-5k miles, Lucas Fuel treatment every other tank and at Almost 30k miles with Zero performance issues. I know that it’s a DI engine and fuel cleaners are not expected to clean above but this truck is a beast that will soon have traction bars installed due to the tires hopping and losing traction. I’ve lately started adding E85, mixing it with 93 octane for cleaning purposes. Haven’t taken the motor apart to check for carbon buildup, have YOU or anyone else with a catch can? NOPE!

The Catch Can serves a good theory, no proof of with or without are just assumptions from there on. I don’t live on assumptions, my using Amsoil Signature Series sling with Lucas Fuel treatment is proof enough for me that something’s working cause I’m at about 30k miles with zero engine stuttering.

Do whatever makes you more confident and works for you but as of this very moment, using 100% pure synthetic extremely low burn off oil along 20-21 micron capturing oil filter and with Lucas Fuel treatment “MAY” be preventing the carbon buildup just as a Catch Can “May” be helping reduce but not stopping carbon buildup. One day I may be installing one but it would have to be the day I buy a new truck due to carbon buildup lol

Sent from Above

lapoolboy · November 19, 2019

I suggest you read up on how the PCV systems function on these engines before you hang your hat on the hope that oil filters and fuel additives will magically keep crap from re-entering the intake.

greco2003 · November 19, 2019

It’s a closed pcv system that’s designed to burn the blow by also idk about this motor but some have a injector that’s sprays the top end to help stop the build up so in theory a fuel treatment could help with this same as a can it’s all theory until proven though and really the only way it could be proven is in a lab because I can be controlled where as if you did it based on real world then how it’s been maintained and driven comes into play.

TXGREEK · November 19, 2019

I suggest you read up on how the PCV systems function on these engines before you hang your hat on the hope that oil filters and fuel additives will magically keep crap from re-entering the intake.

I’ve read a huge amount and agree that something needs to be done but not worth the risk of voiding my 100K warranty especially since NO ONE has actually posted same motor from start to finish of with and without. I’d be on the Catch Can wagon too if it wasn’t for all the above and adding the possible issues that may be added using a catch can.

Sent from Above

RaisedByWolves · November 19, 2019

4 hours ago, TXGREEK said:

I’ve read a huge amount and agree that something needs to be done but not worth the risk of voiding my 100K warranty especially since NO ONE has actually posted same motor from start to finish of with and without. I’d be on the Catch Can wagon too if it wasn’t for all the above and adding the possible issues that may be added using a catch can.

Sent from Above

Talking about adding Traction bars, and you're afraid of a metal can and some hoses?

Where is this condensation, In the motor or in the can?

How in the world will the addition of a can void your warranty and what components would/could it damage?

Take note, my Auto tech instructor (Dont dare call him a teacher)back in the day showed us an alternate to the Italian tune up that I sometimes use to this day on certain equipment.

You basically pour a full glass of water into the carb of a hot running engine. (Shock!)

In doing this you saturate the surface of the hot carbon causing it to flake off. You better have a clear area alongside your exhaust outlet cause there will usually be a carbon stain for a good 15-20' in a nice fan spray in that area.

Ingesting whatever is in the can is the only way I can see people thinking this will cause damage, which IMO is silly.

Quote

I’ve lately started adding E85, mixing it with 93 octane for cleaning purposes. Haven’t taken the motor apart to check for carbon buildup, have YOU or anyone else with a catch can? NOPE!

Since starting this "Cleaning" have you taken apart your motor and inspected it?

As to the last sentence, yes many many people have. Look on the ricer boards (They are surprisingly well versed in this) and I did most of my research there before purchasing anything.

Their only argument is that the WOT can is useless, but their all boosted so for their application that is true.

Edited November 19, 2019 by RaisedByWolves

lapoolboy · November 19, 2019

Yes, the engine ingesting the contents of the can if not emptied is a concern. There are check valves in place to prevent this FYI.

But, I think the more important concern some folks have is that somehow the catch can will not let the system flow or breathe properly and the crankcase could build up pressure and blow out the main seals. This is more of a concern on forced induction engines though.

TXGREEK · November 19, 2019

Talking about adding Traction bars, and you're afraid of a metal can and some hoses?

Where is this condensation, In the motor or in the can?

How in the world will the addition of a can void your warranty and what components would/could it damage?

Take note, my Auto tech instructor (Dont dare call him a teacher)back in the day showed us an alternate to the Italian tune up that I sometimes use to this day on certain equipment.

You basically pour a full glass of water into the carb of a hot running engine. (Shock!)

In doing this you saturate the surface of the hot carbon causing it to flake off. You better have a clear area alongside your exhaust outlet cause there will usually be a carbon stain for a good 15-20' in a nice fan spray in that area.

Ingesting whatever is in the can is the only way I can see people thinking this will cause damage, which IMO is silly.

I’ve asked about whether or not adding a catch can would ever void my warranty in the event I ever have engine issues (example: AFM) and the answer was YES! There was another member that posted how his warranty was voided when he had AFM issues and due to the dealership finding a catch can, GM voided all warranty work, cancelled out his warranty completely!

You think that’s worth it, be my guess but with all this AFM BS on these forums, I’ll just do what I’m doing (if it ain’t broke don’t fix it) and deal with carbon buildup if it ever gives me a problem.

Sent from Above

TXGREEK · November 19, 2019

Yes, the engine ingesting the contents of the can if not emptied is a concern. There are check valves in place to prevent this FYI.

But, I think the more important concern some folks have is that somehow the catch can will not let the system flow or breathe properly and the crankcase could build up pressure and blow out the main seals. This is more of a concern on forced induction engines though.

Bingo! Don’t forget about that post someone claimed warranty work was rejected when his AFM locked up two cylinders due to catch can. Dealership gave the info to GM then completely cancelled the guys power train warranty! To heck with that!

Sent from Above

lapoolboy · November 19, 2019

1 minute ago, TXGREEK said:

Bingo! Don’t forget about that post someone claimed warranty work was rejected when his AFM locked up two cylinders due to catch can. Dealership gave the info to GM then completely cancelled the guys power train warranty! To heck with that!

Sent from Above

I run UPR "quick connect" catch cans. They can be installed/uninstalled in under 5 minutes. Any time I took my truck in to the dealer, I removed it. Leaves no trace. I didn't want to add an extra variable to the dealer's arsenal in the "warranty denial" war. To heck with that!

Was the dealer able to prove the AFM locked up on two cylinders due to a catch can? Most likely not. The AFM locking up was probably the well-known collapsed lifter issue that had zilch to do with the catch can.