L86 vs LT1 vs LT2

LTX402 · March 25, 2021

9 minutes ago, truckguy82 said:

Reading writeups on mods and inspecting dynos of 100’s of people > 1 guy doing it himself

lol @ bolting on a few parts qualifying them as your most reliable source of info

it’s like getting covid info from an ER physician instead of the scientist at the cdc

hints why i said the forum is a joke you ****ing moron. Them only bolting on a few parts makes them less reliable which again hints at why i said the forum is a joke..: youre probably another one of those 40+ year old losers with a pedal commander and and cai with some ugly ass running boards on your ****** gtfoh

Grumpy Bear · March 25, 2021

On 11/1/2020 at 12:19 PM, truckguy82 said:

Screw that, I’m converting to electric as soon as it makes sense. it’s better at literally everything except long distance driving, (or circumstance that requires you to twiddle your thumbs while it charges)

The internal combustion engine is an insane orgy of precision moving parts. Imagine if it was never invented and it was proposed today, every engineer on earth would think the concept is nuts. Hell I’m still amazed it actually works. Electric is so much simpler.

I see your point to a degree. We have wrist watches these days that are accurate to an insane level and durable equally. Yet there will always be a place for a really sweetly built Swiss handmade time piece. Electric fails like the watch to capture elegance in design. It also fails in efficiency almost a badly as current ICE's. Now as Paul Harvey use to say..

Stand by for page 2

Yes there are motors that are over "rated" 90% efficient. At one rpm and at one set load. AC motors driving machines of steady load. BUT a DC motor that operates over the entire rpm band the wind permits can never be more then 50% peak efficient and much less over the entire band. Not even brushless. Case in point:

A DC motor develops 100% of it torque at 0 rpm but as it is not spinning develops ZERO horsepower wasting 100% of the current drawn to heating the motor windings. At it's peak power rpm, 50% of it's rated speed it is wasting 50% of the current to heat. At 90% of rated speed it may be quite efficient, wasting but 10%, but makes next to nothing for either torque or power. Fact is it's rpm limit comes when 100% of it's rated torque is used to overcome it's own resistance.

Mercedes, Mazda have motors 50% efficient, NOW, and Koenigsegg a great deal more. And what could be more elegant than a Koenigsegg Free Valve design. Given enough time even this motor will become a dinosaur, replaced by yet another more efficient design. Electric motors will forever be doomed to the 50% point. A dead end that has been a dead end for about 200 years (1834)

To get more power out of an electric motor is a heart breaker. The easies way is to feed it higher voltage. You going to start making your own batteries? The harder is to make it draw more current which is a motor rewind but that also changes the entire nature of the motor. They are already using the strongest magnets known to exist and even if something new were to be found there isn't a lamination steel known that will not be oversaturated. It's hard limits are built into the cake on day one of it's designed.

Electric has only one area that can be explored to make it more appealing. Charge distance and time. Some smart guy will eventually figure out that a universal battery changed like an electric fork truck just might be worth a look. I can change one in about the time it takes to gas up an ICE. Boy would that make for some Coyote ugly packaging.

The horsepower wars for electric will be limited to the OEM motor of greatest power. And that will eventually have a Federal Cap.

This crap isn't about clean air...it's about who has the power and right now some people want big oil out of power.

Edited March 25, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

truckguy82 · March 25, 2021

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I see your point to a degree. We have wrist watches these days that are accurate to an insane level and durable equally. Yet there will always be a place for a really sweetly built Swiss handmade time piece. Electric fails like the watch to capture elegance in design. It also fails in efficiency almost a badly as current ICE's. Now as Paul Harvey use to say..

Stand by for page 2

Yes there are motors that are over "rated" 90% efficient. At one rpm and at one set load. AC motors driving machines of steady load. BUT a DC motor that operates over the entire rpm band the wind permits can never be more then 50% peak efficient and much less over the entire band. Not even brushless. Case in point:

A DC motor develops 100% of it torque at 0 rpm but as it is not spinning develops ZERO horsepower wasting 100% of the current drawn to heating the motor windings. At it's peak power rpm, 50% of it's rated speed it is wasting 50% of the current to heat. At 90% of rated speed it may be quite efficient, wasting but 10%, but makes next to nothing for either torque or power. Fact is it's rpm limit comes when 100% of it's rated torque is used to overcome it's own resistance.

Mercedes, Mazda have motors 50% efficient, NOW, and Koenigsegg a great deal more. And what could be more elegant than a Koenigsegg Free Valve design. Given enough time even this motor will become a dinosaur, replaced by yet another more efficient design. Electric motors will forever be doomed to the 50% point. A dead end that has been a dead end for about 200 years (1834)

To get more power out of an electric motor is a heart breaker. The easies way is to feed it higher voltage. You going to start making your own batteries? The harder is to make it draw more current which is a motor rewind but that also changes the entire nature of the motor. They are already using the strongest magnets known to exist and even if something new were to be found there isn't a lamination steel known that will not be oversaturated. It's hard limits are built into the cake on day one of it's designed.

Electric has only one area that can be explored to make it more appealing. Charge distance and time. Some smart guy will eventually figure out that a universal battery changed like an electric fork truck just might be worth a look. I can change one in about the time it takes to gas up an ICE. Boy would that make for some Coyote ugly packaging.

The horsepower wars for electric will be limited to the OEM motor of greatest power. And that will eventually have a Federal Cap.

This crap isn't about clean air...it's about who has the power and right now some people want big oil out of power.

-i’ve said on multiple forums that camless engines would set back electric cars 10-15 years. So agree

-in regards to the efficiency of the electric motor, I’m not sure how relevant that is. The endgame point of electric cars is that they are not powered by fossil fuels. Now I realize more than half of our grid comes fossil fuels. But it’s a far cry from 100%, and that number will slowly decrease.

-some amazon warehouses are trying to convert to electric trucks. One of the problems they are having is getting enough juice from the grid for a few hundred trucks to charge at night. What are they going to do? Well, probably use on-site energy storage and solar panels. I think the solar market will go hand and hand with the electric car market as time goes on. I mean, even residential homes, even though they are spending considerably less in electric than fuel, their electric bill will still get considerably more expensive. Which gives people much more incentive to adopt solar. Given that the cost of lith-ion batteries keeps falling, it’s not really out of reason to install a 50kwh battery in someones house that gets charged by their panels.

-the only reason electric cars even work is because of brake regen and massive improvements in rolling efficiency. This is pretty much the sole purpose of a hybrid, to recapture some of inertia energy. This is also why most hybrids get better city mpg than highway mpg, you don’t use your brakes on the highway. This is also why electric vehicles are not so good for highways (especially highway towing) but amazing for cities/suburbia. The only reason they are even usable on the highway today is because tesla has made the thing extremely slippery and low rolling resistance.

-imagine a ultra efficient 20hp micro diesel generator in the truck of a tesla (hell use a camless engine) It would turn on and run at a steady state any time the battery is not 100%. Now that tesla with a 350 mile range might have a 700-800 mile range since it’s charging while driving, but not quite enough to maintain full charge the entire time, but it could charge itself as you stop. That’s good enough to almost never need to worry about range. That’s what I think would dominate for the next 30-40 years. I mean there are no hybrids that exist that have the electric portion of the car even remotely close to as good as teslas. Hybrids have a lot of untapped potential.

-also I’ve driven the model 3 performance and the p100d, I totally wrung them out and took them to their limits. Yeah 0-60 in 2.5 seconds is not as fun doing the same thing in a gas car, I’d say it was about as fun as doing it in about 3.0-3.5 seconds in a gas car. Still hilarious fun. The best part about electric car performance is that it’s explorable on public roads. It’s tough to explain. But you could safely accelerate extremely quickly multiple times on your way to work. With extremely fast gas cars, you need to do the whole routine of launching and I’ll be damned if your going to launch a 700hp car and take your foot off the gas at 50-60mph. I guess the best way to describe is, electric cars feel in their element below 60mph, and high powered gas cars feel like they are just getting started at 60mph. Hell high powered rwd cars often don’t even get traction on the street below 60mph.

Edited March 25, 2021 by truckguy82

Grumpy Bear · March 25, 2021

Hybrid is good, agree. I can do hybrid. Not total electric. What your suggesting is something the rail systems have done for a very long time. Traction motors powered by diesel generators. Batteries then become capacitors. Also good.

Do not kid yourself. Tesla has no lock on efficiency of electric motors. What they have is a pretty good control system but so does Toyota and Honda. Efficiency always matters.

I have no idea how much fossil fuel is left. I posted elsewhere there is only about 70 years of Lithium at the rate they plan to use it. They what? Once again we kick the can down the road for someone else to solve.

What could make it work 'better' they will not even consider. A vehicle with a 50 year service life. If a refinery that is designed for 20 years can still be a viable asset for a 100 years they can certainly make a vehicle with at least a 50 year life. There is a non-pollution idea. They can't keep a box on a pickup 5 years (dodge) and have no interest in doing so. That does make $$$$.

How much pollution would be prevented if we made 10% of the vehicles we make now? IF the last the planned 50 years absolutely no reduction in vehicles per family. There plan however is to continue this 5 year obsolescence program and triple prices driving everyone not an OEM out of business.

I just finished listening to the Presidents talk with the press today. I came away knowing for a fact that NO ONE with any human with any power to do so wants a solution nor even something better. They want $$$$, Power and their way no matter who it hurts. Jaded? Not even. Crap smells of crap no matter who shovels it.

He listed about a dozen project already on the books for decades no one has taken any action on that if completed would do more for pollution and warming that any change from fossil fuels could. Elimination of WASTED energy. What good it there in creating a new transportation system IF you continue to WASTE at an ever increasing rate the resources of this planet?

:rant:

Back to your regular programming

truckguy82 · March 26, 2021

19 hours ago, Boosted16 said:

hints why i said the forum is a joke you ****ing moron. Them only bolting on a few parts makes them less reliable which again hints at why i said the forum is a joke..: youre probably another one of those 40+ year old losers with a pedal commander and and cai with some ugly ass running boards on your ****** gtfoh

Nope, I just have a tune and some bilsteins. No cosmetic.

i built several cars in my 20’s, about 3-4x the power of stock, all turbo’d, tuned them myself, with a wideband, built the motor, fabbed the exhaust manifolds, read books on forced induction and ICE theory. I prefer to leave my 5500lb, 4ft high center of gravity, pickup truck near stock.

Now I’ve never built an LT v8, but if you have any real questions on how serious builds work, I’d be happy to answer them.

Edited March 26, 2021 by truckguy82

LTX402 · March 26, 2021

21 minutes ago, truckguy82 said:

Nope, I just have a tune and some bilsteins. No cosmetic.

i built several cars in my 20’s, about 3-4x the power of stock, all turbo’d, tuned them myself, with a wideband, built the motor, fabbed the exhaust manifolds, read books on forced induction and ICE theory. I prefer to leave my 5500lb, 4ft high center of gravity, pickup truck near stock.

Now I’ve never built an LT v8, but if you have any real questions on how serious builds work, I’d be happy to answer them.

dude look at my picture... i can do all that ****** my self as well with the exception of tuning. i was wondering if anyone has tried something as simple as a manifold but dudes are in here acting like you gotta pull the motor to try it i was just curious if anyone had tried the lt2 manifold with boost i dont need any technical assistance on any type of build i appreciate your offering tho. And the truck being 5500 lbs makes it that much better when i gap modern muscle cars

LTX402 · March 26, 2021

33 minutes ago, truckguy82 said:

Nope, I just have a tune and some bilsteins. No cosmetic.

i built several cars in my 20’s, about 3-4x the power of stock, all turbo’d, tuned them myself, with a wideband, built the motor, fabbed the exhaust manifolds, read books on forced induction and ICE theory. I prefer to leave my 5500lb, 4ft high center of gravity, pickup truck near stock.

Now I’ve never built an LT v8, but if you have any real questions on how serious builds work, I’d be happy to answer them.

youre answer is about along the lines of what i expect out of this forum tho someone coming along trying to be a know it all but knows nothing about the topic in the title itself. If you wanna leave your truck stock and dont know anything about LT motors move along youre just adding to the mountains of comments that have 0 to do with the topic at hand. Reading this post was like listening to a bunch of ****ing old men argue.... nothing but a bunch of mfs who talk just to talk... will probably read up on the ICE theory tho so thanks for that i guess

Edited March 26, 2021 by Boosted16

truckguy82 · March 26, 2021

47 minutes ago, Boosted16 said:

youre answer is about along the lines of what i expect out of this forum tho someone coming along trying to be a know it all but knows nothing about the topic in the title itself. If you wanna leave your truck stock and dont know anything about LT motors move along youre just adding to the mountains of comments that have 0 to do with the topic at hand. Reading this post was like listening to a bunch of ****ing old men argue.... nothing but a bunch of mfs who talk just to talk... will probably read up on the ICE theory tho so thanks for that i guess

I actually know a lot about Lt motors. Enough that I can say you’re a moron for asking about heavily modified setups here because there just so happens to be other forums, with actual sports cars, with our same drivetrains

I also find it odd you’re complaining of us old guys bickering, but your first post in this thread was complaining like a teenage girl. It’s not as if you asked a question and received bad info. Nobody started an argument with you.

LTX402 · March 26, 2021

1 hour ago, truckguy82 said:

I actually know a lot about Lt motors. Enough that I can say you’re a moron for asking about heavily modified setups here because there just so happens to be other forums, with actual sports cars, with our same drivetrains

I also find it odd you’re complaining of us old guys bickering, but your first post in this thread was complaining like a teenage girl. It’s not as if you asked a question and received bad info. Nobody started an argument with you.

Yet here you are going back and forth dare i say this is an argument? I dont really give a **** what youve got to say i said what i had to say... as far as the forum goes there used to be plenty of knowledgeable people in here like 1slow1500 but dipshits, that have never turned a wrench telling him what he should and shouldnt do, ran him off. I turboed my truck off of most of his post in this exact forum so suck my hairy balls this used to be a halfway decent place to come for answers why the **** would i go to a sports car forum when i dont have a sports car? what sports cars does the l83 come in?

LTX402 · March 26, 2021

1 hour ago, truckguy82 said:

I actually know a lot about Lt motors. Enough that I can say you’re a moron for asking about heavily modified setups here because there just so happens to be other forums, with actual sports cars, with our same drivetrains

I also find it odd you’re complaining of us old guys bickering, but your first post in this thread was complaining like a teenage girl. It’s not as if you asked a question and received bad info. Nobody started an argument with you.

you mistake me for being angry i cant find answers lol ill figure anything out if i give it enough time my frustration stems from the idiots in this forum... how the **** did most of this post become about electric cars the forum is a joke man dont take it personal ill be gone forever when i stop getting emails of people replying... but in the off chance that someone comes along and actually has something valuable to contribute to the post ill stay subscribed

Grumpy Bear · March 26, 2021

11 hours ago, Boosted16 said:

So you've done every thing but tune and the guy your dissing has done everything AND tune but you got this.

Saying goes.

"If you want a better answer, ask a better question".

But yea....

LTX402 · March 27, 2021

14 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

So you've done every thing but tune and the guy your dissing has done everything AND tune but you got this.

Saying goes.

"If you want a better answer, ask a better question".

But yea....

so you read all that and still missed the point of everything i said... what better question needs to be put in the title for people to actually answer the question and not talk about electric cars throughout the same post. like i said just a bunch of mfs who talk just to talk yourself included. as the saying goes- suck my balls

Edited March 27, 2021 by Boosted16

LTX402 · March 27, 2021

14 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

So you've done every thing but tune and the guy your dissing has done everything AND tune but you got this.

Saying goes.

"If you want a better answer, ask a better question".

But yea....