Torque management removal 6.2

[Keaton Faulk]

2014 Sierra Denali 6.2. 2nd transmission 22k on it. AFM delete and superchips torque management settings. My question is can the transmission handle a complete TQ management removal? My first transmission was badly abused towing, the replacement had nothing to do woth torque management. I no longer tow the weight I’ve put behind the truck. Everything under the truck is pretty much brand new from the trans, to the rear end, and the steering rack. Everything except the motor which has had no problems. 

[KARNUT]

2014 Sierra Denali 6.2. 2nd transmission 22k on it. AFM delete and superchips torque management settings. My question is can the transmission handle a complete TQ management removal? My first transmission was badly abused towing, the replacement had nothing to do woth torque management. [emoji28] I no longer tow the weight I’ve put behind the truck. Everything under the truck is pretty much brand new from the trans, to the rear end, and the steering rack. Everything except the motor which has had no problems. 

Every truck I’ve owned that could have a tune had one. Prior to tuning I put shift kits in the transmission. I used hand held tuners up to my last new one 2014. I never felt comfortable with more than 50 percent TM removal. It felt too harsh to me.


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[Keaton Faulk]

Does it really help that much and why exactly does torque management effect? Shift firmness and throttle response?

[KARNUT]

Does it really help that much and why exactly does torque management effect? Shift firmness and throttle response?

Help depends on the individual. I wanted to feel firm shifts. TM cuts power while shifting. Arguably reducing 0-60 times. As time goes on it’s getting more refined where than can be an argument that’s not the case. Personally I wanted to feel firmer shifts at less than full throttle. I would raise shifts points to maximum along with RPM limits. TQ would be lower at higher RPMs. I rarely would be reaching max RPMs. When I did I wanted maximum effect.

 

 

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[flyingfool]

I've read, never to exceed 25% but i havent tuned one . I got my HPT and slowly studying .  i think your focus should be on reliability upgrades first.  there is a long list of things to do before TM modding.  

 

i never driven a 6.2 truck, but my 5.3 with 6speed i guess would be similar. getting rid of the excessive gear kick down is top of my list, you have a 6.2 , its got the torque to only drop 2 gears instead of a crazy 4-5 gear kick down so you can wind up the motor. i would tune it for street comfort not track racing. modify the setting for throttle position point in which kick down occurs, stock is a bit sensitive

Edited November 19, 2020 by flyingfool

[KARNUT]

The intrusions by electronics has lessened the performance feel from most vehicles. Even hand held tuners have brought some of that back. Even products like sprint booster. I was surprised how snappy my 02 Avalanche feels compared to my drive by wire vehicles. Anyone who was lucky enough to drive older vehicles even with 250 HP without the electronic intrusion. Would be surprised how the performance feels compared to the electronic controlled vehicles.


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[flyingfool]

2nd transmission with 22K miles on it? i wonder if someone has already  modified the TM on your truck and hence why its eating trannies...  i would start with getting the heat out of the transmission first. tuning is putting the cart before the horse. my 2012 6.0 2500 HD operates at 120-130 F all day long, it comes with a factory cooling package. this is your target temp for street  daily driving duty

 

 

Edited November 19, 2020 by flyingfool

[Keaton Faulk]

1 minute ago, flyingfool said:

2nd transmission with 22K miles on it? i wonder if someone has already  modified the TM on your truck and hence why its eating trannies...  i would start with getting the heat out of the transmission first. tuning is putting the cart before the horse

 

 

No man I’ve had the truck since it was new. I put a new trans in it at 94k which now the new one has 22k ish on it. 

[flyingfool]

i mis understand my bad. 94K is still too new to loose a trans, you got heat issues

Edited November 19, 2020 by flyingfool

[lucas287]

TQ Mgmt is much different these days than on the NBS, or even NNBS platform. These are torque-based ECMs that operate solely on torque predictions. You can't "remove" that. 

 

Do you have the 6 or 8 speed? The 8L90, despite the naysayers, is actually a very mechanically robust transmission. It can handle some serious power and abuse. But the way these transmissions are controlled is very delicate to changes. Dialing in MAF and VE tables will make a HUGE difference in the way these trucks shift, so much so that you probably won't think twice about TQ MGMT. 

 

TQ MGMT Advance is something that can be datalogged and it's most active during shifts like @KARNUT said. Timing advance goes negative (an actual negative number not just reducing timing) during the shift. For wear and tear purposes the general consensus is that TQ MGMT is not a bad thing but that getting the timing advance slightly positive during the shift will result in a much improved feel. Can this be done with a handheld? Probably not. It's a combination of modifying the minimum base spark tables and possibly your shift torque adder modifier tables. 

 

I've done the above and noted some improvements, but nothing that would make me write home to momma. The real magic is getting the airflow models correct, since the trans references those tables (predicted torque) to dictate line pressure, shift timing, etc.. 

 

The 5.3 is handicapped in many ways compared to the 6.2. There are dozens of tables within the tune that essentially limit throttle position (preventing full power) in certain scenarios. For some reason, GM didn't do that on the 6.2. It's pretty well unleashed from the factory. Even the Driver Demand tables are pretty aggressive on the 6.2. The "high" octane timing table is pretty radical too. 

[Keaton Faulk]

2 hours ago, lucas287 said:

TQ Mgmt is much different these days than on the NBS, or even NNBS platform. These are torque-based ECMs that operate solely on torque predictions. You can't "remove" that. 

 

Do you have the 6 or 8 speed? The 8L90, despite the naysayers, is actually a very mechanically robust transmission. It can handle some serious power and abuse. But the way these transmissions are controlled is very delicate to changes. Dialing in MAF and VE tables will make a HUGE difference in the way these trucks shift, so much so that you probably won't think twice about TQ MGMT. 

 

TQ MGMT Advance is something that can be datalogged and it's most active during shifts like @KARNUT said. Timing advance goes negative (an actual negative number not just reducing timing) during the shift. For wear and tear purposes the general consensus is that TQ MGMT is not a bad thing but that getting the timing advance slightly positive during the shift will result in a much improved feel. Can this be done with a handheld? Probably not. It's a combination of modifying the minimum base spark tables and possibly your shift torque adder modifier tables. 

 

I've done the above and noted some improvements, but nothing that would make me write home to momma. The real magic is getting the airflow models correct, since the trans references those tables (predicted torque) to dictate line pressure, shift timing, etc.. 

 

The 5.3 is handicapped in many ways compared to the 6.2. There are dozens of tables within the tune that essentially limit throttle position (preventing full power) in certain scenarios. For some reason, GM didn't do that on the 6.2. It's pretty well unleashed from the factory. Even the Driver Demand tables are pretty aggressive on the 6.2. The "high" octane timing table is pretty radical too. 

Mine is the 6 speed. All I have is a handheld superchips programmer which believe it or not when I got it back when my truck was actually new woke  it up a lot. I just have it on the performance setting with afm off and torque management at the superchips setting. What I’m trying to figure out is if its

worth going beyond that. I can adjust spark advance too but I don’t know enough to mess with that.

[lucas287]

2 hours ago, Keaton Faulk said:

Mine is the 6 speed. All I have is a handheld superchips programmer which believe it or not when I got it back when my truck was actually new woke  it up a lot. I just have it on the performance setting with afm off and torque management at the superchips setting. What I’m trying to figure out is if its

worth going beyond that. I can adjust spark advance too but I don’t know enough to mess with that.

That spark advance you refer to is something completely different. 

 

6Lxx trans is very tunable and you can make it feel a lot better with actual custom tuning. Your handheld SC doesnt hold a candle to what something like @CamGTP could put together for a 6Lxx trans. 

[flyingfool]

On 11/19/2020 at 11:34 AM, lucas287 said:

. The real magic is getting the airflow models correct, since the trans references those tables (predicted torque) to dictate line pressure, shift timing, etc.. 

 

The 5.3 is handicapped in many ways compared to the 6.2. There are dozens of tables within the tune that essentially limit throttle position (preventing full power) in certain scenarios. For some reason, GM didn't do that on the 6.2. It's pretty well unleashed from the factory. Even the Driver Demand tables are pretty aggressive on the 6.2. The "high" octane timing table is pretty radical too. 

Are they using the same e38 ecu in the 6.2 truck? if so why can't i just reflash my 5.3 truck with the 6.2 file to un-handicap the 5.3 truck?

[lucas287]

6 hours ago, flyingfool said:

Are they using the same e38 ecu in the 6.2 truck? if so why can't i just reflash my 5.3 truck with the 6.2 file to un-handicap the 5.3 truck?

E38 is 4th gen. E92 is what the 14-18 LT direct injected motors use. 

 

If you have the ability to flash a 6 2 file then you have the ability to change those tables that handicap the 5.3

[Mike GMC]

On 11/19/2020 at 12:34 PM, lucas287 said:

TQ Mgmt is much different these days than on the NBS, or even NNBS platform. These are torque-based ECMs that operate solely on torque predictions. You can't "remove" that. 

 

Do you have the 6 or 8 speed? The 8L90, despite the naysayers, is actually a very mechanically robust transmission. It can handle some serious power and abuse. But the way these transmissions are controlled is very delicate to changes. Dialing in MAF and VE tables will make a HUGE difference in the way these trucks shift, so much so that you probably won't think twice about TQ MGMT. 

 

TQ MGMT Advance is something that can be datalogged and it's most active during shifts like @KARNUT said. Timing advance goes negative (an actual negative number not just reducing timing) during the shift. For wear and tear purposes the general consensus is that TQ MGMT is not a bad thing but that getting the timing advance slightly positive during the shift will result in a much improved feel. Can this be done with a handheld? Probably not. It's a combination of modifying the minimum base spark tables and possibly your shift torque adder modifier tables. 

 

I've done the above and noted some improvements, but nothing that would make me write home to momma. The real magic is getting the airflow models correct, since the trans references those tables (predicted torque) to dictate line pressure, shift timing, etc.. 

 

The 5.3 is handicapped in many ways compared to the 6.2. There are dozens of tables within the tune that essentially limit throttle position (preventing full power) in certain scenarios. For some reason, GM didn't do that on the 6.2. It's pretty well unleashed from the factory. Even the Driver Demand tables are pretty aggressive on the 6.2. The "high" octane timing table is pretty radical too. 

Just how handicapped is the 5.3?  I always believed a tune would wake it up a bit, but how much?