Im sorry, but it is kind of funny GM 21-NA-199

BlaineBug · November 22, 2021

44 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

The theory is that IF the cooler is plugged by viscous fluid then the kit provides a 'short circuit' back to the pan so that the pump doesn't dead head.

newdude had a good write up this somewhere else. Fluid goes from the trans pump to the radiator THEN to the upper part of the AC condenser in SOME models. Some like mine to the radiator only.

I think this bothers people because the can 'see' it where as we were blind to it from the early 1960's until they put digital gauges in the dash. There is nothing new here. That said...if it really bothers you 1.) use the new thermostat 2.) set up a condenser bypass for winter. 3.) Cover the AC condensers upper core or 4.) blind the thing like a diesel.

I have done #4 which is real easy. Cardboard and bread ties or Duck Tape. There is even a guy who sells canvas grill covers for gas motors.

These transmissions have come a very long way since the slush boxes of the 1960s as well. Viscosity of fluid is very important, much more so important than fluid in a transmission from 60 years ago.

14burrito · November 22, 2021

1 hour ago, dieselfan1 said:

Both my 18 Silverados have shutters

Good to know. I was exchanging some DMs while back and the person I was talking with didnt have shutters in their Silverado.

BlaineBug · November 22, 2021

It appears that 13511136 is the part number for the old thermal bypass valve. For the life of me I can't find a decent picture anywhere to find out what temperature they are stamped with. Unless the old ones weren't stamped at all.

We all know that the new thermal bypass valves are stamped 70 which is for degrees Celsius, which translates to 158 degrees Fahrenheit (which, speaking for all thermostats, indicates the temperature at which they should be FULLY OPEN.) I see that the old valve can be purchased for around $60 which isn't too bad. If I could find the new 158 degree thermostat for the same price I'd buy it today. However what I won't do is allow for NO thermostatic control of my fluid, living in the north as such.

PS - I also found out there's a valve with the part number 13511137 but once again no details provided about temperature.

Edited November 22, 2021 by BlaineBug

BlaineBug · November 22, 2021

Sorry to continue spamming but I have located the new part number.

Part number 86774933 is the new General Motors thermostat/bypass valve which fully opens at 158 degrees Fahrenheit (90 degrees Celsius.) I also found out that the old thermostat/bypass valve fully opened at 194 degrees Fahrenheit (70 degrees Celsius.) That's a 36 degree difference!

Edited November 22, 2021 by BlaineBug

14burrito · November 22, 2021

51 minutes ago, BlaineBug said:

It appears that 13511136 is the part number for the old thermal bypass valve. For the life of me I can't find a decent picture anywhere to find out what temperature they are stamped with. Unless the old ones weren't stamped at all.

We all know that the new thermal bypass valves are stamped 70 which is for degrees Celsius, which translates to 158 degrees Fahrenheit (which, speaking for all thermostats, indicates the temperature at which they should be FULLY OPEN.) I see that the old valve can be purchased for around $60 which isn't too bad. If I could find the new 158 degree thermostat for the same price I'd buy it today. However what I won't do is allow for NO thermostatic control of my fluid, living in the north as such.

PS - I also found out there's a valve with the part number 13511137 but once again no details provided about temperature.

Original stat from my 19 Tahoe.

BlaineBug · November 22, 2021

I see a V180, 5, and B19. Not sure what those numbers relate to.

14burrito · November 22, 2021

48 minutes ago, BlaineBug said:

I see a V180, 5, and B19. Not sure what those numbers relate to.

I'm under the understanding the start to open temp on the original stat is 180.

My katech engine thermostat is labeled 79C which is its start to open temp.

Edited November 22, 2021 by 14burrito

BlaineBug · November 23, 2021

This is from the techlink article you referenced;

Quote

A new TBV is available that has a cooler operating temperature. The previous TBV had a full-open temperature of 194°F (90°C). The new TBV has a full-open temperature of 158°F (70°C).

And the new thermostat housing is stamped 70 which indicates full-open value. I'm not sure how Katech marks their products. I've always been accustomed to the value being the full-open value rather than the value at which it first opens just a little bit.

Anyway, I have ordered one, $63.15 with tax. I feel comfortable lowering the maximum opening temperature while still regulating minimum opening temperature. I still stand by my statement that not regulating temperature at all isn't a swell idea especially for people driving in climates that experience cold and frigid temperatures.

Edited November 23, 2021 by BlaineBug

14burrito · November 23, 2021

20 minutes ago, BlaineBug said:

This is from the techlink article you referenced;

And the new thermostat housing is stamped 70 which indicates full-open value. I'm not sure how Katech marks their products. I've always been accustomed to the value being the full-open value rather than the value at which it first opens just a little bit.

Anyway, I have ordered one, $63.15 with tax. I feel comfortable lowering the maximum opening temperature while still regulating minimum opening temperature. I still stand by my statement that not regulating temperature at all isn't a swell idea especially for people driving in climates that experience cold and frigid temperatures.

So I'm led even more so believe that the 180 marked on the OE stat is start to open when stats have historically been about 15 or so start to full (194 -15 = 179).

The stamped 70 reverses this role obviously as 70c = 158f.

You can disassemble the new housing and reporting what's stamped on the stat, disassembly is extremely easy.

Iv been a believer that the thermostat is labeled start to open temps.

Edited November 23, 2021 by 14burrito

Grumpy Bear · November 23, 2021

41 minutes ago, 14burrito said:

Iv been a believer that the thermostat is labeled start to open temps.

You and everyone else.

https://knowhow.napaonline.com/temperature-control-engine-thermostat-testing-tips-and-tricks/

Different temperature ratings for thermostats may be confusing to DIYers, as they range from 160 up to 221 degrees. What your vehicle needs depends on the original OEM specs, but can be changed due to geographic location, engine swaps, and performance upgrades. The rating listed on the thermostat is the point at which the device begins to open. This is not the full open temperature, which is typically 15-20 degrees above the listed temp. For example, a 180 degree thermostat begins to open within three degrees of 180, so 177 to 183.

Grumpy Bear · November 23, 2021

3 hours ago, BlaineBug said:

These transmissions have come a very long way since the slush boxes of the 1960s as well. Viscosity of fluid is very important, much more so important than fluid in a transmission from 60 years ago.

What has changed the is they are TCM controlled instead of vacuum and speed. A clutch is still a clutch and bearing is still a bearing. The valve body does the same thing in the same way it did in the 60's. Your are trying way to hard to make something so simple the new frontier. It isn't. The oil companies try making everything 'unknowable' and that isn't true either. If you can keep people scared, ignorant and in the dark you have allot of control. People like being mushrooms. OEM's and Oil benefit. There are no magic beans. No elfin magic. No 'special' factory engineering.

MikeBMW · November 23, 2021

Wow, I never knew a topic such as this could become so divisive.
For me, I'm just going to ask my service tech at the dealership.
I have an extended warranty and I'm sure they don't want to pay out for potential early damage to the transmission.
I'll report back ...

BlaineBug · November 23, 2021

1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

What has changed the is they are TCM controlled instead of vacuum and speed. A clutch is still a clutch and bearing is still a bearing. The valve body does the same thing in the same way it did in the 60's. Your are trying way to hard to make something so simple the new frontier. It isn't. The oil companies try making everything 'unknowable' and that isn't true either. If you can keep people scared, ignorant and in the dark you have allot of control. People like being mushrooms. OEM's and Oil benefit. There are no magic beans. No elfin magic. No 'special' factory engineering.

Think about Ford's "LV" low viscosity fluid. I'd classify that as different than 60 year old fluid. Everything is much more precise and refined now. 0w20 oil instead of 15w40. Tighter tolerances and clearances. And things last longer too. Back in the day it was a rare sight for any automobile on the road to reach 100,000 miles. Now they can oftentimes triple that number at the very least if taken care of and maintained.

BlaineBug · November 23, 2021

2 hours ago, 14burrito said:

So I'm led even more so believe that the 180 marked on the OE stat is start to open when stats have historically been about 15 or so start to full (194 -15 = 179).

The stamped 70 reverses this role obviously as 70c = 158f.

You can disassemble the new housing and reporting what's stamped on the stat, disassembly is extremely easy.

Iv been a believer that the thermostat is labeled start to open temps.

GM's tech link article states otherwise, fully opened temperature. As far as the stamping on the aluminum housing goes. Maybe you're talking about numbers on the actual thermostat inside.

Edited November 23, 2021 by BlaineBug

Grumpy Bear · November 23, 2021

1 hour ago, BlaineBug said:

Think about Ford's "LV" low viscosity fluid. I'd classify that as different than 60 year old fluid. Everything is much more precise and refined now. 0w20 oil instead of 15w40. Tighter tolerances and clearances. And things last longer too. Back in the day it was a rare sight for any automobile on the road to reach 100,000 miles. Now they can oftentimes triple that number at the very least if taken care of and maintained.

Do they now?

:crackup:

Here's a 1966 Volvo P1800 with over 3 million miles on it.

https://www.hagerty.com/media/videos/the-world-record-3-million-mile-volvo-p1800-driven-the-next-big-thing/

Here's a 64 Mercury Comet with over 500K on it:

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1951956/1964-mercury-comet-half-million-miles-retiredwhat-next/

I have an Uncle with a 36 Ford C cab with a million on it and has never been rebuilt. Still oil tight and silent. What oil was that 36 Ford run on? That would be API SB oils until 1951 and SC till 1967. SAE 40W straight weight.

Piston 'fit up' clearances are indeed tighter thanks to hypereutectic alloys. But running hot clearances are the same and so are rod a main bearings. .001" per inch of journal diameter and it's been that way for over 100 years.

Drive it like you like it. Keep it tuned. Keep it full, changed, filtered, cool and use an OCI matched to the service and the oil your using and anything with a shell bearing will last longer than you want it to.

Your read to many oil filter packages.

This guy has a 225 slat six over a million miles without a rebuild. Go to 5:25 in this video.

Edited November 23, 2021 by Grumpy Bear