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6L80 6-speed with new TBV 70 running hot

161500WT

By 161500WT
in Engines & Drivetrain

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161500WT Enthusiast

161500WT

Posted
Posted

I have a 2016 1500WT v-6, 6 spd auto. I put the new TBV (70) on and today was the first warm day. In city traffic I was seeing 185-190. I was expecting at the most 175.

Is this ok or should I be looking at a transmission cooler?

Does anyone sell a kit with the proper fittings?

CamGTP Senior Enthusiast

CamGTP

Posted
Posted

Those temps in heavier traffic on a hot day are totally normal even with a lower temp thermostat. If you removed the thermostat completely it will stay at a lower temp for longer but eventually it will still creep up in temp. Once the transmission/fluid is heatsoaked, there is nothing you can do about it. You have to get airflow across the radiator/cooler and not be constantly shifting gears for the temps to come down.

 

So long as the fluid stays under about 200-210, the life of the fluid is really not going to change. We just prefer the fluid to stay below 190 for the best life possible.

 

 

  • Like 1
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, 161500WT said:

I have a 2016 1500WT v-6, 6 spd auto. I put the new TBV (70) on and today was the first warm day. In city traffic I was seeing 185-190. I was expecting at the most 175.

Is this ok or should I be looking at a transmission cooler?

Does anyone sell a kit with the proper fittings?

 

I have the same setup in a 2015. Town driving these is always going to be problematic. 1.) Because the converter can lock up the OEM builds it to a higher stall speed than before locking converters. Around town the converter is in a higher state of slip than it would be on the road. This makes heat. 2.) The pump runs slower around town so less flow through the cooler. 3.) As Cameron pointed out, there is little air flow that is not fan supplied so unless you are running the AC they don't kick on till near 220 F or there about. So, I run the AC in town on hot days. Keeps one fan active. 

 

In an ideal world keeping under 175 F in most transmissions makes for a long life. In the 6L80E the TCM is inside the transmission and bathed in the fluid. Failure of the TCM is the primary reason the lowered the TBV from 90 C (194 F) full open to 70 C (194 F) fully open. They don't want the brain box running over 160 F for 'prolonged' periods of time.  However, they did not do a thing to increase the available cooling. 

 

Adding more cooler is a good idea but it also has the same slow speed issue unless you run a really large cooler. Air flow. So, for low speed work a "pusher' fan run on a settable fan controller would be perfect. Hayden Automotive has several set ups like this. You can't over cool it as it has a TBV, right? 

 

You have another option. Use a better fluid with more temperature resistance. A PAO based fluid. AMSOIL ATF or Red Line D6 and change it more often. My factory fill Group III was toast at 50K. I do a partial change every 25K even with the Red Line D6 I use. I also run an 8-quart PLM pan with a drain and a Valvomax to make it driveway friendly. The extra capacity doesn't do a thing to lower the temperature, but it takes quite a bit longer to get really hot. 😉 

 

For what my 2 cents is worth. 

 

 

Edited by Grumpy Bear
  • Like 1
rav3 Senior Enthusiast

rav3

Posted
Posted (edited)

If you do the "pill lip" or install the other bypass kit, it should run as cool as it's possible. I did this to my '17 6L80 3 years ago & seldom do I see my trans fluid get over 145F driving in the mountains of WNC. Even going from 2100' to 5000'+ it doesn't run high. You realize that the older generation 4L80's didn't have any transmission thermostat. I do a partial drain & fill (approx 4 qts) about every 10-15k miles by simply sucking it out o the ill tube. Heat is a killer for transmission fluid, just search it. Here's a link to one of the kits being sold to correct this.

Amazon.com: WIT WHATEVER IT TAKES TRANSMISSION PARTS, INC 6L80 6L90 8L90 Sure Cool System Upgrade STL010 : Automotive

 

Edited by rav3
newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, 161500WT said:

I have a 2016 1500WT v-6, 6 spd auto. I put the new TBV (70) on and today was the first warm day. In city traffic I was seeing 185-190. I was expecting at the most 175.

Is this ok or should I be looking at a transmission cooler?

Does anyone sell a kit with the proper fittings?

 

 

The V6s don't have an auxiliary cooler.  The V6 cooling loop is transmission to the radiator based transmission cooler, then radiator back to the transmission.  

 

They run warmer even with the pill flip because of that added engine coolant temperature in the radiator, so the temps you are seeing are 100% normal for the V6.

 

Pill flip or the SureCool TBV delete will probably get you down another 20 degrees in the same situation at the most?  

Edited by newdude
  • Like 1
Ubiquity Enthusiast

Ubiquity

Posted
Posted (edited)

Hello 161500WT:

 

Thanks to the folks here (you know who you are), I recently added the sure cool and a 180F engine coolant thermostat as well.  I haven't been using the vehicle nearly as much as I thought I would.  I typically take it on a 30 mile trip out and back once a week.  It's local driving, with an average speed near 30 mph -- and with all the traffic lights, I reach no greater than 50 mph.  Outside air temps were around 78f  with the transmission temperature indicating at its highest around 178F.  And yes, after the upgrade it takes quite a bit of time to reach that temperature under those conditions.  And even that it's a momentary spike.  Once I start moving again it will drop down 5-8 degrees from there.  I've done a 12 mile 65 mph ride with the outside temp. near the mid 70's and the highest I can recall the transmission being somewhere in the mid 165F range for that segment.

  

I'm considering a drain plug on the pan for the period between trans. filter changes. 

 

I'd go with an external electric fan if I towed or carried significant weight with it.

 

Edited by 15RCLB2wdV6
So as to enhance the excitement for the devoted few I found some time to clean it up a bit.
  • Like 1
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

 

2 hours ago, 161500WT said:

Thanks for the replies.

After spending the $ to change the fluid, filter and TBV I just wish it ran cooler.

 

Mine ran in the 250 F range stock in this situation. Rarely breaks 190 F in a crawl now. 60 degrees is a pretty good improvement. Some of which had to do with a cooler water thermostat as @newdude below explains. 190 F is what I see in stalled traffic. Like interstate accident stalled. Around town 170-185 F.  Open road 55 mph is show in the graph below. I wish I didn't have to sing for my supper either. 😉 Still have work to do. 

 

49 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

The V6s don't have an auxiliary cooler.  The V6 cooling loop is transmission to the radiator based transmission cooler, then radiator back to the transmission.  

 

They run warmer even with the pill flip because of that added engine coolant temperature in the radiator, so the temps you are seeing are 100% normal for the V6.

 

Pill flip or the SureCool TBV delete will probably get you down another 20 degrees in the same situation at the most?  

 

V6 cooler is in the COLD SIDE which runs, with air, fan or speed about 20-30 degrees cooler than the water temperature out of the motor. What you read on the dash. But even the colder water thermostat needs air over the radiator. It does delay the time it takes and as I said before, run the AC in a crawl. 

 

Situation has everything to do with cooling and with the V6 water temperature is a big player as is air temperature. 

 

To slow, to fast, to heavy, to hot a day, and as you can see in the yellow line below once you run out  of cooler..... Even wind speed and direction influence it relative to your direction of travel. Hence the addition of a liquid/air AFTER the tank cooler. 

 

image.thumb.png.9563ad229b6dd36a54702567d0251192.png

  • Like 1
mikeyk101 Senior Enthusiast

mikeyk101

Posted
Posted

IMHO, it seems like the V8 models also benefit from lower coolant temps as well. The V8 have the transmission cooling running through the condenser instead of the radiator but with the proximity of the radiator and condenser, the coolant heat from radiator does seems to also affect condenser. I switched out my coolant thermostat from a 207⁰ to an OEM GM 194⁰ as well as changed the trans thermostat from the 194⁰ to the new 154⁰ a while back. By doing so, I am seeing much better trans temperatures along with lower coolant and oil temperatures which I really am happy with. And even when towing, all the temps are in a much better range. 

 

And I know comparing the V6 and V8 is apples to oranges, but I think it's important to look at several angles instead of just focusing on the single transmission temperature. 

  • Like 1
  • 2 weeks later...
Ubiquity Enthusiast

Ubiquity

Posted
Posted (edited)

I just repeated the previous quoted trip.  The only difference was the Outside Air Temperature (OAT) was 84 Fahrenheit (F) on the 15 mile (m) leg outbound; and while returning to the inland hell space it shot up to 89 F.  For most of the trip, that is, both the out and inbound legs, the transmission temperature topped at 165 F.  It was only the last couple of miles that it reached the 176 F mark.  Winds were a headwind for the outbound leg (maybe 6 mph); and tail an hour and half or so later for the return. 

 

Additional remarks:  No passengers, with a bed that is loaded to maybe 700 pounds.   I limit my V6's  speed to 1,750 revolutions per minute (rpms) on acceleration.  I also had my window open - yes, that means no a/c.  I also closely read the road as far in advance so as to conserve as best as the conditions will permit while at the same time not pissing too many other drivers off.  Though it's a four lane road and they can just go around if they want -- I'm guessing half of them do.  Lastly, referencing the same onboard display I obtained roughly 24 miles per gallon (mpg). 

 

I hope I'm not beating this subject to death, but I thought since I made the effort to track the figures as I drove most of the way, I'd transcribe them for future reference.  I'm not addicted to this process and can be easily persuaded to stop doing this.  I could even be persuaded to stop with the annotation of the most common of terms, for which my post is replete. 

 

Enjoy your weekend. Me and Ubiquity

 

On 6/29/2023 at 8:42 AM, 15RCLB2wdV6 said:

Hello 161500WT:

 

Thanks to the folks here (you know who you are), I recently added the sure cool and a 180F engine coolant thermostat as well.  I haven't been using the vehicle nearly as much as I thought I would.  I typically take it on a 30 mile trip out and back once a week.  It's local driving, with an average speed near 30 mph -- and with all the traffic lights, I reach no greater than 50 mph.  Outside air temps were around 78f  with the transmission temperature indicating at its highest around 178F.  And yes, after the upgrade it takes quite a bit of time to reach that temperature under those conditions.  And even that it's a momentary spike.  Once I start moving again it will drop down 5-8 degrees from there.  I've done a 12 mile 65 mph ride with the outside temp. near the mid 70's and the highest I can recall the transmission being somewhere in the mid 165F range for that segment.

  

I'm considering a drain plug on the pan for the period between trans. filter changes. 

 

I'd go with an external electric fan if I towed or carried significant weight with it.

 

 

Edited by 15RCLB2wdV6
I always forget that two lanes are really four.
mikeyk101 Senior Enthusiast

mikeyk101

Posted
Posted

Ok, I understand that you believe your transmission is running hot. It's still well below what it would be with the old OEM thermostat.

 

But what are your actual coolant and engine oil temperatures?

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