Torco Oil

Grumpy Bear · October 27, 2023

SR-5R

This is listed as a "Racing Oil" but is suitable for street. It is pricey coming in at $21.95 per liter (1.056 quarts)

Don't let that lower-than-average TBN put you off. There is a synergy between PAO and AN's that gives a higher oxidation initiation temperature than either has alone. It will take a while to deplete its acid package.

I would expect the oxidation number to be lower than Red Line but the Aniline point to be lower as well making it a good polar solvent with great dispersant ability.

The Esters enhance lubricity and film strength.

Edited October 27, 2023 by Grumpy Bear

OnTheReel · October 27, 2023

I like it but that would be a $200 DIY oil change.

Their SR-1 at $11.95 seems like a good value for a PAO / ester blend. Could certainly spend more and get less.

diyer2 · October 27, 2023

If I want better quality than off the shelf products, Amsoil works for me. Some of the oils are just ridiculously priced.

Grumpy Bear · October 27, 2023

16 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

I like it but that would be a $200 DIY oil change.

Their SR-1 at $11.95 seems like a good value for a PAO / ester blend. Could certainly spend more and get less.

SR-1_TDS.pdf (shopify.com)

I could not get this to print on one page to scan in so provided a link instead.

This is one you have to read the fine print. Compare this to the street oil SR-5 DGL (Not the same as the SR-5R in the first post)

Microsoft Word - SR-5 TDS.docx (shopify.com)

Under features, read the first line of each.

The SR-5 says "100% POA/Ester formula" the SR-1 says "100% Synthetic formula" and goes on further down to assure you that part of the 'formula' is indeed PAO. SR-1 is a Group III/Group IV base with a hint of Ester.

Torco is much like High Performance Lubricants in that they offer a step ladder approach to your choices and as they do, they, unlike most, are pretty transparent about it.

SR-1 falls between the SX-8, which has a DEXOS1Gen2 license (Group II/Group III) and the Red Line HP like(ish) SR-5.

Each step up the ladder increases oxidation initiation temperature, film strength and lubricity. You can see this film strength in the HTHS values of like SAE grades. The same SAE grade can run between 2.9 and 4 HTHS depending on the bases used. You can see the oxidation resistance in the initial TBN vs the time to 50% depletion. Something you have to generate yourself based on UOA's.

There is also a difference in the polymers used for VII. Note the terms 'low shear' and 'zero shear' and VII free.

Most of this comes back to a thread I started quite some time ago asking When and Why one changes their oil. You change it because it oxidizes over time and pickups up debris generated by that process and wear.

Like everything else quality cost. Quality last. Quality can be cheaper to use.

Grumpy Bear · October 27, 2023

3 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

If I want better quality than off the shelf products, Amsoil works for me. Some of the oils are just ridiculously priced.

It's why you don't see many oils like this. Up front cost put people off even if they can see the benefit in its use.

I buy a $5 a quart oil that last 2K miles. I buy a $20 a quart oil that last 7.5K miles. That's almost break even. Might even be even if oil filter/labor is considered. And, if one breaks down cost this way, it hardly matters as long as the OCI is appropriate for the fluid.

But we don't use "better" oil because it last longer. That is the justification we use to rationalize the cost. We use it because it protects better and keeps it clean longer. Those features pay for themselves in fewer vehicles bought and/or lower overall power train maintenance cost.

It will not matter to the frequent trader. That guy has his own issues. I can't afford the oil, but I can afford a new truck when the warranty runs out reasoning is a bit beyond my comprehension.

It's why they build these quality ladders. Each person gets to choose his own price of pain.

OnTheReel · October 27, 2023

Just would hurt too much on the sub 3,000 mile dumps I do. Once things are run in…at 5,000 mi intervals I’d probably be a customer. Until then RL or HPL serves me fine.

Good call reading the tea leaves on the SR-1. The rest of their petroleum based oils explicitly say so on their data sheets so I assumed they weren’t hiding anything.

Grumpy Bear · October 28, 2023

1 hour ago, OnTheReel said:

I assumed they weren’t hiding anything.

Oh, I don't think they are. Just taking advantage of the 'synthetic' definition loopholes Castrol vs XOM created.

I find Torco USA to be the most transparent blender going. Easy read if you understand the language. Red Line used to have tons of information on their HP blends published right on site. Removal started all sorts of trash talk and speculation. Started mainly by competitors. :crackup:

diyer2 · October 28, 2023

If my memory is right, Amsoil doesn't give a lot of info on their formulations. All I know is every product of theirs I have used performed well.

A repeat of what convinced me to start using their products. My used Honda ATV motor and trans had a noticeable improvement when I switched from off the shelf to Amsoil. This made me think about using more of their products.

Same with our 19 Hyundai Santa Fe. Switching to Amsoil OE motor oil, Amsoil trans fluid and transfer case fluid made a noticeable difference.

Both units were smoother, quieter. The Hyundai was using a little oil between oil changes, that stopped with Amsoil oil.

Amsoil prices aren't out of line IMO and delivery is on time.

OnTheReel · October 28, 2023

I have Amsoil in my wife’s car and in my outboard. And I will say Amsoil SS seems to do really well on the TRX too. Saw sample of it run it to 5k. The viscosity was still perfect and wear metals looked really good. Only thing I don’t really like is how they’ve gradually cheapened the base oil in it (like almost everyone else).

Grumpy Bear · October 30, 2023

Go to any Walmart and whatever Full Synthetic is on the self, there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between them. Fact is that the bottom tier of the boutique blenders could be sold at Wally World into that commodity market. That is not what I start threads like this for.

I start them to show what is available above the commodity market. And yes, I whiff one now an again. TRIAX was one such example. I am always learning. That said, each owner/operator makes up his own mind. I'm not trying to convince. I'm trying to educate. Poorly at times, but......

Torco has some truly elite products, and it has some run of the mill commodity products. Are they worth their ask? You decide that, not me. I just point them out.

VicFirth · October 30, 2023

The ultra-premium boutique brands are using higher amounts of not only additives, but esters and ANs. It's been a while since I paid any attention to Torco, but they seem to have a very nice line of oils. I wonder which blender is making their products.....

VicFirth · October 30, 2023

On 10/28/2023 at 3:00 PM, OnTheReel said:

I have Amsoil in my wife’s car and in my outboard. And I will say Amsoil SS seems to do really well on the TRX too. Saw sample of it run it to 5k. The viscosity was still perfect and wear metals looked really good. Only thing I don’t really like is how they’ve gradually cheapened the base oil in it (like almost everyone else).

"Usually" price is somewhat indicative of what you're getting. Amsoil is around $15.49qt, slightly less than HPL, Red LIne and Torco. Amsoil currently appears to be using PAO, GTL and V base oils. The Noack volatility is still exceptional among their SS line and they appear to use a good dose of ester with virgin oxidation values around 50-60. The rest of their oils are similar in nature to the shelf oils found at Walmart etc.

diyer2 · October 30, 2023

This is a reply from Amsoil after I asked about their OE line of oil.

2/16/22

Hi Stephen,

Our OE line is 100% Synthetic and we use synthetic base stocks in our oils. Which base stocks we use is proprietary to us and we do not share that information. In regards to comparing this product to other brands, it would be comparable to what you can get off the shelf but will offer a better level of protection since it is 100% synthetic and not a full synthetic.

Thank you,

Jake Siptroth
AMSOIL Technical Services
Tech Line: 715-399-8324
Email: [email protected]

VicFirth · October 30, 2023

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

This is a reply from Amsoil after I asked about their OE line of oil.

2/16/22

Hi Stephen,

Our OE line is 100% Synthetic and we use synthetic base stocks in our oils. Which base stocks we use is proprietary to us and we do not share that information. In regards to comparing this product to other brands, it would be comparable to what you can get off the shelf but will offer a better level of protection since it is 100% synthetic and not a full synthetic.

Thank you,

Jake Siptroth
AMSOIL Technical Services
Tech Line: 715-399-8324
Email: [email protected]

Years ago, Amsoil stamped "Genuine PAO" on their boxes, when it was found that Mobil 1 had moved to Group III. It was a bragging right for their dealers at that time. This was early 2000's. Since then, Amsoil has changed their tune and no longer mentions what they use at all. In the Gale Banks videos, you can hear Dan Peterson say they like III and V.

Could just be me but Amsoil seems to be getting more "corporate" as they grow, getting away from their roots. They now offer a High Mileage oil, Hybrid Oil and Extended Performance oil.

Edited October 30, 2023 by VicFirth

VicFirth · October 30, 2023

I respect brands like HPL and Torco that just flat out say "we use PAO, Ester and AN" etc. Nice change. They're obviously not going to give you %'s, which would be meaningless anyway but it's nice to see them being transparent.