Torco Oil

diyer2 · October 30, 2023

The oil debate is endless. All I know is the Amsoil OE oil made a difference in my vehicle.

Grumpy Bear · October 30, 2023

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

This is a reply from Amsoil after I asked about their OE line of oil.

2/16/22

Hi Stephen,

Our OE line is 100% Synthetic and we use synthetic base stocks in our oils. Which base stocks we use is proprietary to us and we do not share that information. In regards to comparing this product to other brands, it would be comparable to what you can get off the shelf but will offer a better level of protection since it is 100% synthetic and not a full synthetic.

Thank you,

Jake Siptroth
AMSOIL Technical Services
Tech Line: 715-399-8324
Email: [email protected]

From an AMSOIL site. Read it all or slide down to the last sentence.

[Quote] So, when the dust settles on the “full synthetic vs 100% synthetic” debate, you’ll realize it’s a lot of sound and fury, but it signifies that the two terms refer to the same thing. [End Quote]

Are all Synthetic Oil Groups the Same? Group III vs IV vs V - AMSOIL Blog

I love marketing...NOT

[Quote] Some motor oils made from Group III oils can outperform some Group IV motor oils. That’s because the final formulation is a function of the base oils and additives working in tandem. [End Quote]

Translation. A fully formulated Group III CAN outperform a raw POA. Could also mean a WELL formulated Group III CAN outperform a poorly formulated POA. Could also mean a properly selected Group III CAN outperform a poorly chosen POA. Here's a tricky one. A fully formulated PCMO containing a Group III AND and AN can out perform a fully formulated POA hint of ester in oxidation resistance. You choose.

HPL hung the AMSOIL speak on me recently. So, I asked, "In what universe does a company invest a few BILLLION dollars on a process that produces an inferior product?" Never got a reply.

What is true. If one cherry picks the data AND limits the field of vision, there may be a characteristic or two where they cross paths. But if everything is considered....not

Grumpy Bear · October 30, 2023

Add Red Line HP and MPT 30K to that list.

Oxidation test is indicative of the oil's ester/AN content. Some disagree but here's why. The carboxyl group is what the oxidation tests 'sees'. Both Esters and AN contain these carboxyl groups. Group III and IV do not. This functional group is what is responsible for the oil's lubricity, film strength, solvency and enhanced dispersity.

AN has an added benefit. Blended with either Group III or Group IV oxidation resistance is higher than any one component alone.

Grumpy Bear · October 30, 2023

31 minutes ago, diyer2 said:

The oil debate is endless.

IF one makes it so, it certainly can. Presentation of information may lead to debate but the presentation itself is just information presented.

Someone says chocolate is another flavor that can be considered in lieu of vanilla and right away we debate which is best. Seems to be human nature to quibble our preferences and current best understandings.

Grumpy Bear · October 30, 2023

39 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

I respect brands like HPL and Torco that just flat out say "we use PAO, Ester and AN" etc. Nice change. They're obviously not going to give you %'s, which would be meaningless anyway but it's nice to see them being transparent.

Did you know that the original Mobil 1 TRI-SYNTHETIC was such a blend? Short lived at that. Bean counters :mad:

KARNUT · October 30, 2023

16 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

IF one makes it so, it certainly can. Presentation of information may lead to debate but the presentation itself is just information presented.

Someone says chocolate is another flavor that can be considered in lieu of vanilla and right away we debate which is best. Seems to be human nature to quibble our preferences and current best understandings.

Cherry Vanilla

VicFirth · October 30, 2023

18 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Did you know that the original Mobil 1 TRI-SYNTHETIC was such a blend? Short lived at that. Bean counters

I do, in fact it was Dr. Rudnick (consultant for HPL) that developed it. HPL is in some ways an evolution of that formulating philosophy I'm told.

I agree.

diyer2 · October 30, 2023

Marketing a better product at first and then cheapening it to increase profits is a business model that has been around a long time.

VicFirth · October 30, 2023

In Amsoil's defense, they do give you some good testing data.

OnTheReel · October 30, 2023

4 hours ago, VicFirth said:

"Usually" price is somewhat indicative of what you're getting. Amsoil is around $15.49qt, slightly less than HPL, Red LIne and Torco. Amsoil currently appears to be using PAO, GTL and V base oils. The Noack volatility is still exceptional among their SS line and they appear to use a good dose of ester with virgin oxidation values around 50-60. The rest of their oils are similar in nature to the shelf oils found at Walmart etc.

Yep. Of course it’s a little more complicated because Amsoil SS actually gets a lot cheaper if you pay to be a preferred customer. $11.89 / QT and free delivery (on a case). But I’ve also found ways to get cheaper Red Line and HPL.

HPL Super Car (their top tier) $15.86 / QT delivered (with 15% off promo code BITOG15).

Red Line HP (any variety) at Go Turbo $13.69 / QT delivered.

https://goturbo.net/red12304-red-line-5w30-euro-oil-quart-12304

I guess the moral of the story would be that depending upon how/where you buy, you could actually spend more or less on Red Line vs Amsoil SS. Oxidation value on my last (used) Red Line sample was 108. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum used in the same truck was all of 16.

VicFirth · October 30, 2023

10 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

Yep. Of course it’s a little more complicated because Amsoil SS actually gets a lot cheaper if you pay to be a preferred customer. $11.89 / QT and free delivery (on a case). But I’ve also found ways to get cheaper Red Line and HPL.

HPL Super Car (their top tier) $15.86 / QT delivered (with 15% off promo code BITOG15).

Red Line HP (any variety) at Go Turbo $13.69 / QT delivered.

https://goturbo.net/red12304-red-line-5w30-euro-oil-quart-12304

I guess the moral of the story would be that depending upon how/where you buy, you could actually spend more or less on Red Line vs Amsoil SS. Oxidation value on my last (used) Red Line sample was 108. Pennzoil Ultra Platinum used in the same truck was all of 16.

For me cost isn't an issue. Even paying full price for a boutique oil I'm looking at $100.00 for at LEAST 6 months of protection. I'm not looking for oil deals or cheap oils, I just prefer some level of transparency on what I'm paying premium prices for. If you're not using an approved lubricant, you have to have full trust that the small boutique blender knows what they are doing. The more transparent and forthcoming they are, the better.

Oxidation gives you an idea of the presence of ester, but not always the concentration due to so many ester types. Red Line uses the most that I'm aware of. I've heard HPL uses more than Amsoil but the oxidation value isn't that high on their oils, likely due to the AN's they use.

Pennzoil or any other OTC oil are using borate esters and esters that are in the form of additives, such as ZDP.

Grumpy Bear · October 30, 2023

7 hours ago, VicFirth said:

The ultra-premium boutique brands are using higher amounts of not only additives, but esters and ANs. It's been a while since I paid any attention to Torco, but they seem to have a very nice line of oils. I wonder which blender is making their products.....

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