Some Assembly is Required

[Atlas]

The Germans basically didn't make the list. There aren't a lot of shade-tree mechanics who work on them in general. At some point the economic equation of keeping a car alive favors junking it. Anecdote/experience tells me this is the case versus actual bad engines/engineering. Not that there isn't any, but there are definitely notable excellent examples. The 2.0 diesels will go forever and ever if one keeps the car around it running. The 2.0 gas cars eventually wear out their turbos but the block below it is usually still solid as a rock. BMW inline 6's same thing. Mercedes diesels of yesteryear, not uncommon to see 250k out of those engines, easy.

 

 

Link to the synopsis of the study:

https://www.iseecars.com/longest-lasting-cars-study

[Atlas]

1 hour ago, OnTheReel said:

Break-in reality check? Very strange to such a cautious (and threatening) break-in procedure on a 2026 vehicle but yet Ram deemed this necessary on their DC650 sport truck. 
This is a stock 5.7 Hemi with a blower bolted onto it. Internally nothing different from the engine in millions of other trucks, so why the “excessive” break-in? And why then wouldn’t a “normal” truck also benefit from following it? Rhetorical questions of course…

 

I think the answer is it's a stock 5.7 Hemi with a 3.0L blower bolted onto it

 

Practically, because a blower introduces a lot of high pressure, severe thermal stress, and extreme mechanical loads on an engine. Things still need a little time to seat and get used to moving under load.

 

Sarcastically, because it's a Stellantis/ 5.7 Hemi and those things need all the help they can get!!

[KARNUT]

46 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

 

0w20 is recommended in the Sequoia. 0w16 in the Highlander Hybrid.

 

I think you make a compelling case for both the quality and frequency of maintenance but I wouldn't go so far as to plot a linear relationship between longevity and oil weight

 

The list is interesting and leaves me with some questions. The Silverado 1500 is 12.9% likely while the GMC Sierra 1500 is only 10.8% likely. Arguably, they're the same truck, so other factors must be influencing the outcome.

 

The Honda Odyssey ranks #12 at 13% likely. Great. Rest assured we'll never stop hearing about the dang thing LOL.

 

There's a bit of a spread between the 4Runner (32.9%) and Tacoma (25.3%). Both overlap on the same 4.0 for many years although the Tacoma used a 3.5 for the last 10-12ish. I wonder if that's related to use-case or if it's suggesting the 3.5 isn't quite as up to the task, or maybe something else fails mechanically.

 

Ram at 3.5% overall likely, but the Ram 3500 holds the top spot on the Heavy Duty Models at 39.7%. One might say the Cummins is a ringer and provides an unfair advantage. I don't think it's fair/accurate to pit the GM Fullsize 1500's in a list with HD's which are basically medium-duty wearing a 3500 badge.

 

The Tahoe and Suburban hold spots #15 and #8, respectively, on the longest lasting SUV's list. What's the difference? One's got a shorter butt, unless they're also counting the 2500/3500 Suburbans in those numbers.

 

The GMC Canyon gets a 1.4% increase over its twin brother Colorado. Why, because it's prettier?

 

SO many questions...

You may like to pick on Odyssey owners and that’s fine. I’ve owned more Chevys than most people as well as Fords. And will own more. If a vehicle surprises me I like to make it known. We don’t all survive with one vehicle. And surprise, surprise not all are GMS. I don’t usually bring my business vehicles in the conversation because they’re work vehicles. If Chevy had a mini van I’d probably own one. Same with a 4 door rear drive car. They don’t so I’m forced to look elsewhere.

[Atlas]

1 minute ago, KARNUT said:

You may like to pick on Odyssey owners and that’s fine. I’ve owned more Chevys than most people as well as Fords. And will own more. If a vehicle surprises me I like to make it known. We don’t all survive with one vehicle. And surprise, surprise not all are GMS. I don’t usually bring my business vehicles in the conversation because they’re work vehicles. If Chevy had a mini van I’d probably own one. Same with a 4 door rear drive car. They don’t so I’m forced to look elsewhere.

 

 

On a more serious note, the Traverse is basically a minivan with large car-like rear doors. Versatile, comfortable, and FWD/AWD, unibody design makes them nice drivers and pretty efficient considering their size. But, being honest the last small-ish van of GM's that I liked was the Astro.

[KARNUT]

5 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

 

On a more serious note, the Traverse is basically a minivan with large car-like rear doors. Versatile, comfortable, and FWD/AWD, unibody design makes them nice drivers and pretty efficient considering their size. But, being honest the last small-ish van of GM's that I liked was the Astro.

Most people unless they spend time in a mini van don’t appreciate them. If I didn’t trade a CRV that was free when my mother in law who quit driving with my daughter. I would have never would have ever, ever given it a shot. One will always be my trip vehicle. 

[Grumpy Bear]

4 hours ago, Atlas said:

I think you make a compelling case for both the quality and frequency of maintenance but I wouldn't go so far as to plot a linear relationship between longevity and oil weight

 

Linear? No, you are correct. Not linear but it is measurable. 

 

Here is my latest project. The yellow line is the entire Blackstone Historical Universe for this motor platform on the OEM recommended 0W20 oil. Results fall well below the Industry standard (after break-in) of no more than 5 ppm total wear metals. Thus one could reasonably expect this motor to last quite some time on this weight and evidently most do.

 

One the web site for this platform enthusiast holding on to that warranty report making 200-300K miles but with a good deal of engine issues, heavy oil consumption (by as early as 80K), multiple timing chains and noisy valve gear. So yes, 0W20 will get you there and then to the bone yard. Longest one lasted 400K miles and was on display at White Bear Mitsubishi. 

 

The Orange line is a fellow enthusiast, one I am familiar with, experiment into the heavier grade lubricant of 5W30. He's a Mobil 1 fan changing oil at 5K miles. He's passed 200K with the same timing chain, fairly quite valve train and light use of oil. Something like a cup between OCI's. His compression test are within 2 psi of new. Note lower total wear metals v the 0W20. There is a second fellow on that site with a bit less documentation that just did 300K on 5W30 in this platform that just published his compression tests at 5-8 psi under new. I think there is  good argument there that at minimum bore and piston skirt wear is nicely abated by this heavier choice. He still 50 psi above the factory minimum and very in balance hole to hole. 

 

Light green in Raven, my unit. 5W40. Jury is out on how long it will last as it just passed 50K in under two years. However wear metals are once again vastly reduced. It uses no oil yet and the mechanical valve train is amazingly quite and it runs exceptionally cool.

 

I would be hard pressed to believe that such a drastic reduction in measured metals does not equate long term to a longer lasting motor.  

 

I only offered the examples I have DATA for and people I actually know and trust. So once again, I'm not telling anyone what I THINK happens. I providing the RESULTS and the context. My batting average would have most testing me for performance enhancing chemicals...wait!...I am!  

 

 

 

 

Now I've ran every Honda with 5W20 but again a high polarity oil with an exceptional HTHS value. High enough to exceed the SAE 30 minimum. 

 

I just ran across an 5W30 with a HTHS value of a SAE 40. And there in Atlas lies the key. It isn't the SAE grade but the actual HTHS values and shear stability index results. 

 

Looking for other outliers we could include those oils so light as to not support Stribeck but work due to enhanced AW chemistries. If you lean on these then the OCI needs to be short enough to not deplete their effectiveness. 

 

The Toyota Crown calls for a 0W8 but as it is not yet sold here in any volume Toyota has cleared weights as high as 0W20 for warranty enforcement. A testament to the absurdity of 'heavy oils damage motors'. 

 

Yes there are a few weird Spray Bore motors that don't like heavier oils due more to the hone finish. Special cases so no blanket statement will stand.  

 

Edited 4 hours ago by Grumpy Bear