Oil Consumption

Atlas · May 30

16 minutes ago, riddler said:

Some punks hide behind the internet, otherwise feel brave. FAFO

And that's supposed to mean ... what?

Chuck FB · May 30

I believe I've stumbled across the fix for the volume of oil use that the OP wants to address, a permanent fix at that so it will never use any oil ever again. Sure, the Valvoline Restore & Protect may very well solve some or perhaps all of the issue but it will take time to run through a few batches of oil on a low oil change interval where as this other solution is cheap, quick and permanent. However like its said, sometimes its better to work a little for the reward .... I posted it elsewhere on this forum in the appropriate place where with a little effort it can be found.

Grumpy Bear · May 30

3 hours ago, riddler said:

Some punks hide behind the internet, otherwise feel brave. FAFO

2 hours ago, Atlas said:

And that's supposed to mean ... what?

He has no clue what he means. Argues like a child.

Somewhere a village is missing its......

KARNUT · May 30

2 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

I believe I've stumbled across the fix for the volume of oil use that the OP wants to address, a permanent fix at that so it will never use any oil ever again. Sure, the Valvoline Restore & Protect may very well solve some or perhaps all of the issue but it will take time to run through a few batches of oil on a low oil change interval where as this other solution is cheap, quick and permanent. However like its said, sometimes its better to work a little for the reward .... I posted it elsewhere on this forum in the appropriate place where with a little effort it can be found.

I saw that happen for real in my father’s 1970 cst hugger orange Chevy truck. It had the 402 engine. His oil guy called him real excited about a new oil called Cristal 50. My father bought several cases and had an oil change party with his brothers. Lucky for them it went in their personal cars that weren’t driven much. My father on the other hand drove a couple hundred miles day between his job sites. This oil guy supplied all the oil and grease for my father’s business. At the time he had 60 pieces of heavy equipment and 80 men. This was in NJ. Before the week was out I heard him come home. When he opened the door I heard his truck running it seemed wide open. It had headers and glass packs. And he looked pretty pissed. I went out open the door and there was a brick wedge holding it wide open. The tack said only 3K RPMs. I heard him screaming at the oil guy saying the dip stick will not come out. It had no oil pressure and the closer to home he got the slower it would go. The oil was for racing to be drained frequently. I can’t remember how often I was 14. The oil guy paid for a new engine. My mother made my father remove the brick. It made a shriek and it got towed. The next day he pulled up in a El Camino SS with a cowl induction hood. My uncle got the truck.

riddler · May 31

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

I saw that happen for real in my father’s 1970 cst hugger orange Chevy truck. It had the 402 engine. His oil guy called him real excited about a new oil called Cristal 50. My father bought several cases and had an oil change party with his brothers. Lucky for them it went in their personal cars that weren’t driven much. My father on the other hand drove a couple hundred miles day between his job sites. This oil guy supplied all the oil and grease for my father’s business. At the time he had 60 pieces of heavy equipment and 80 men. This was in NJ. Before the week was out I heard him come home. When he opened the door I heard his truck running it seemed wide open. It had headers and glass packs. And he looked pretty pissed. I went out open the door and there was a brick wedge holding it wide open. The tack said only 3K RPMs. I heard him screaming at the oil guy saying the dip stick will not come out. It had no oil pressure and the closer to home he got the slower it would go. The oil was for racing to be drained frequently. I can’t remember how often I was 14. The oil guy paid for a new engine. My mother made my father remove the brick. It made a shriek and it got towed. The next day he pulled up in a El Camino SS with a cowl induction hood. My uncle got the truck.

Great story. Thanks for shareing.

Chuck FB · May 31

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

I saw that happen for real in my father’s 1970 cst hugger orange Chevy truck. It had the 402 engine. His oil guy called him real excited about a new oil called Cristal 50. My father bought several cases and had an oil change party with his brothers. Lucky for them it went in their personal cars that weren’t driven much. My father on the other hand drove a couple hundred miles day between his job sites. This oil guy supplied all the oil and grease for my father’s business. At the time he had 60 pieces of heavy equipment and 80 men. This was in NJ. Before the week was out I heard him come home. When he opened the door I heard his truck running it seemed wide open. It had headers and glass packs. And he looked pretty pissed. I went out open the door and there was a brick wedge holding it wide open. The tack said only 3K RPMs. I heard him screaming at the oil guy saying the dip stick will not come out. It had no oil pressure and the closer to home he got the slower it would go. The oil was for racing to be drained frequently. I can’t remember how often I was 14. The oil guy paid for a new engine. My mother made my father remove the brick. It made a shriek and it got towed. The next day he pulled up in a El Camino SS with a cowl induction hood. My uncle got the truck.

I believe I recall you mentioning something about this Cristal 50 before. I can only guess that the oil retailer got talked into carrying the oil not realizing what it was all about. So was your dad using Cristal oil products at the time in the equipment, not this particular oil though of course. So then the question is, what prompted your dad or if it was your dad to switch over to Amsoil or were there other oil brands used along the way before Amsoil was settled on ?.

KARNUT · May 31

25 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

I believe I recall you mentioning something about this Cristal 50 before. I can only guess that the oil retailer got talked into carrying the oil not realizing what it was all about. So was your dad using Cristal oil products at the time in the equipment, not this particular oil though of course. So then the question is, what prompted your dad or if it was your dad to switch over to Amsoil or were there other oil brands used along the way before Amsoil was settled on ?.

Different state, different business, about 10 years later. The NJ business was sight prep for subdivisions and Great Adventure amusement and safari park. In Texas it was utility, land clearing and Row Clearing. Later equipment sales and services. Featuring our own clearing attachment. Amsoil showed up at shop one day in Texas. I tested it in my equipment and truck first. With oil analysis we started using it in everything. The business in NJ was owned by my father started in the 60s. The second was family owned father and sons. We used conventional oil. Amsoil was our first synthetic.

Chuck FB · May 31

40 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Different state, different business, about 10 years later. The NJ business was sight prep for subdivisions and Great Adventure amusement and safari park. In Texas it was utility, land clearing and Row Clearing. Later equipment sales and services. Featuring our own clearing attachment. Amsoil showed up at shop one day in Texas. I tested it in my equipment and truck first. With oil analysis we started using it in everything. The business in NJ was owned by my father started in the 60s. The second was family owned father and sons. We used conventional oil. Amsoil was our first synthetic.

Certainly back in the 60's there would not have been salesman coming around selling synthetic oil to the masses and its a good question as to how many shifted over to synthetics as they came out in the 1970's, from what I sensed at the time there was a mystery and unsure about the product since it was all new to the general public. The talk about engines leaking at seals etc if switching over to synthetic which actually had truth due to the formulation at the time, teething issues for sure from what I gather which obviously was sorted out years ago. That and no doubt the price premium held synthetic sales down in the early days. To say the theme has flipped on its head today is an understatement with synthetic oil being used from end to end on vehicles, highway tractors and equipment. Do you recall what year your company was first introduced to Amsoil ?

KARNUT · May 31

4 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

Certainly back in the 60's there would not have been salesman coming around selling synthetic oil to the masses and its a good question as to how many shifted over to synthetics as they came out in the 1970's, from what I sensed at the time there was a mystery and unsure about the product since it was all new to the general public. The talk about engines leaking at seals etc if switching over to synthetic which actually had truth due to the formulation at the time, teething issues for sure from what I gather which obviously was sorted out years ago. That and no doubt the price premium held synthetic sales down in the early days. To say the theme has flipped on its head today is an understatement with synthetic oil being used from end to end on vehicles, highway tractors and equipment. Do you recall what year your company was first introduced to Amsoil ?

It was the middle of the 80s. It was marketed as being able to extend. We ran it 25K miles in our trucks. My brother put auxiliary filters on his truck ran Amsoil for 50K miles. The only reason he didn’t go longer. He over boosted his supper charger and blew a head gasket. We double the hours between oil changes with my ROW tractors. The biggest changes were the saving with our high pressure hydraulics. If you blew a high pressure hose powering the implement (our cutter head) you could count on the pump failing due to oil starvation (cavitation) . Amsoil synthetic hydraulic oil stopped that. Generally it doubled the life of our automatic transmission in our trucks. It saved us money across the board.

Chuck FB · May 31

24 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

It was the middle of the 80s. It was marketed as being able to extend. We ran it 25K miles in our trucks. My brother put auxiliary filters on his truck ran Amsoil for 50K miles. The only reason he didn’t go longer. He over boosted his supper charger and blew a head gasket. We double the hours between oil changes with my ROW tractors. The biggest changes were the saving with our high pressure hydraulics. If you blew a high pressure hose powering the implement (our cutter head) you could count on the pump failing due to oil starvation (cavitation) . Amsoil synthetic hydraulic oil stopped that. Generally it doubled the life of our automatic transmission in our trucks. It saved us money across the board.

Interesting timing as it was around 1985 when I started looking into engine and gear oils that would flow better in cold weather although I was looking through offerings that main stream companies like Esso was offering and at that time they were listing some very select full synthetic made by Mobil as well as the Esso offerings that were part synthetics. I chose what was more affordable and more easily sourced which was the Esso part synthetics which still had good performance in cold weather, just not quite as good as the full synthetics. That's where it all began and over the years that evolved into a part synthetic hydraulic oil and then full synthetic engine and gear oils, highway tractor transmission synthetic oil as Esso put them on the market. Cold weather was my main goal for years for using part or full synthetics, balancing cost with performance but then some equipment began to call for synthetic period in certain components.

I just knew that all it would take is one turned crank or con rod bearing in an engine to pay for a lot of oil or should say the difference in cost between a proper wide operating temperature viscosity of a synthetic 0W-40 over lets say a conventional 15W-40 .

Edited May 31 by Chuck FB

KARNUT · May 31

8 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

Interesting timing as it was around 1985 when I started looking into engine and gear oils that would flow better in cold weather although I was looking through offerings that main stream companies like Esso was offering and at that time they were listing some very select full synthetic made by Mobil as well as the Esso offerings that were part synthetics. I chose what was more affordable and more easily sourced which was the Esso part synthetics which still had good performance in cold weather, just not quite as good as the full synthetics. That's where it all began and over the years that evolved into a part synthetic hydraulic oil and then full synthetic engine and gear oils, highway tractor transmission synthetic oil as Esso put them on the market. Cold weather was my main goal for years for using part or full synthetics, balancing cost with performance but then some equipment began to call for synthetic period in certain components.

I just knew that all it would take is one turned crank or con rod bearing in an engine to pay for a lot of oil or should say the difference in cost between a proper wide operating temperature viscosity of a synthetic 0W-40 over lets say a conventional 15W-40 .

My brother ran the shop and let’s say more adventurous than me. I was more skeptical. But I did notice that the engines ran cooler. When I hauled my equipment with one ton trucks I noticed right a way they ran cooler. Same with the ROW clearing tractors. Especially the hydraulics. In those situations you’re at max duty cycle you’re not just cruising your working the equipment. And speaking of oil usage is where defects would show up. And you would use oil. And they didn’t. It’s why I’m kinda amused with the whole they all use oil hair splitting here. I spent my life using equipment at their max stress levels. If engines were prone to use oil it would be a problem.

Edited May 31 by KARNUT

KARNUT · May 31

By the way the oil that became solid was made by Oilzum. Crystal 50 racing oil. It just came to me.

Chuck FB · May 31

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

My brother ran the shop and let’s say more adventurous than me. I was more skeptical. But I did notice that the engines ran cooler. When I hauled my equipment with one ton trucks I noticed right a way they ran cooler. Same with the ROW clearing tractors. Especially the hydraulics. In those situations you’re at max duty cycle you’re not just cruising your working the equipment. And speaking of oil usage is where defects would show up. And you would use oil. And they didn’t. It’s why I’m kinda amused with the whole they all use oil hair splitting here. I spent my life using equipment at their max stress levels. If engines were prone to use oil it would be a problem.

That's a good point about the operating temperature differences of oils, be that in an engine, transmission, diff or hydraulic applications between a conventional oil and certain synthetics as Grumpy Bear as talked about, of course viscosity is also playing a roll in it as the balancing act, as too heavy a viscosity increases heat but too thin and it can't protect the sliding components.

But as to engine oil usage, I can't say to what engines your company was using for pickups and tractors etc but my own experience over the years and the various farmers or truck drivers I knew who are maintaining their equipment and having to add some oil every so often was a very common theme. Take Cummins and I am going back years now to the 1970's and 80's as a diesel manufacturer, be it in the tractors own manual or the Cummins supplemental manual it would state a rough expectation of oil use volume per an operating day. Now granted that was that days engine technology and that days conventional oil being used. It does make me wonder though as to if there would have been a noticeable difference in oil consumption in the same engine with the same user scenario between a conventional main stream off the shelf oil and Amsoil I'll use as a top tier engine oil choice. Truck fleets for example that do the same run day after day, same load and same route would be ideal test beds for testing variables like that and of course wear metals testing. My ex brother inlaw years ago was an owner operator of his highway tractor ( a few different trucks over those years ) and ran a route where they pulled a heavy load, double trailers hauling wood chips and the truck would run day and night with a swing shift all week and get serviced on the weekend. That type of use case would make for very consistent testing.

Chuck FB · May 31

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

By the way the oil that became solid was made by Oilzum. Crystal 50 racing oil. It just came to me.

Good thing you mentioned that as there is actually a brand of oil that is Crystal Lubricants and realized that as I was trying to search for information about it. I haven't searched much yet on the Oilzum but found a comment that claims that oil brand has a history that dates back to 1888 in Massachusetts. So it would seem oil brands that never made it to Canada or not western Canada in any way that one hears about them.

Texaco was the big player in Canada years ago and I know my dad was a Texaco oil and probably fuel user as well since that was the major supplier but then things began to dwindle company wise for whatever reason with competition and they sold off their Canadian holdings to Petro Canada. We still have a few of those one or two gallon galvanized cans around from Texaco, they would date back a few years !.

KARNUT · May 31

8 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

That's a good point about the operating temperature differences of oils, be that in an engine, transmission, diff or hydraulic applications between a conventional oil and certain synthetics as Grumpy Bear as talked about, of course viscosity is also playing a roll in it as the balancing act, as too heavy a viscosity increases heat but too thin and it can't protect the sliding components.

But as to engine oil usage, I can't say to what engines your company was using for pickups and tractors etc but my own experience over the years and the various farmers or truck drivers I knew who are maintaining their equipment and having to add some oil every so often was a very common theme. Take Cummins and I am going back years now to the 1970's and 80's as a diesel manufacturer, be it in the tractors own manual or the Cummins supplemental manual it would state a rough expectation of oil use volume per an operating day. Now granted that was that days engine technology and that days conventional oil being used. It does make me wonder though as to if there would have been a noticeable difference in oil consumption in the same engine with the same user scenario between a conventional main stream off the shelf oil and Amsoil I'll use as a top tier engine oil choice. Truck fleets for example that do the same run day after day, same load and same route would be ideal test beds for testing variables like that and of course wear metals testing. My ex brother inlaw years ago was an owner operator of his highway tractor ( a few different trucks over those years ) and ran a route where they pulled a heavy load, double trailers hauling wood chips and the truck would run day and night with a swing shift all week and get serviced on the weekend. That type of use case would make for very consistent testing.

In the beginning we used regular farm trackers with PTO driving our cutter heads. We actually cleared going backwards. International tractors because of external PTOs. No splitting the tractors. We had one ton 390 gas fords for pulling highly modified. The first diesel was a 88 Ford 7.3 non turbo addition. We remedy that problem with a banks kit and overdrive bolted behind the transmission. The first cab tractor was a Versatile with 4cylinder Cummings. My brother working with a local hydraulic shop converted the pto to hydraulic. We used to have to unhook the pto to cross ditches on pipelines. Hydraulics became more efficient but rob some power. My brother stretch the frame and adding a 6 cylinder Cummings. That of course increased the horsepower. When we expanded to selling equipment that setup was popular. We sold a couple hundred of those until ford bought the company and changed the configuration. We started converting Hydro Axes and several other prim movers. Amsoil oil was the oil we used. That is the tip of the iceberg. But that is where my experience comes from. At least part of it.