Missing thrust bearing? And oil selection

[Atlas]

Two interesting tidbits of information which are NOT related were just released.

 

One, regarding the possible thrust bearing issues / engine failures with the 3.0. Demonworks just did a segment in which they believe they may have found "a" or "the" cause of thrust bearing failures: A missing thrust bearing. If the engine doesn't have all its thrust bearings from the factory, the missing bearing can cause extra play which ends up destroying a nearby thrust bearing which then sends metal through the engine.

 

 

 

Of other importance, Lake Speed Jr released some interest information regarding oil weight selection for the 3.0. Comparisons of:

 

AcDelco 0w20 Dexos D

Mobil 1 ESP x2 0w20 Dexos D

Mobil 1 ESP x2 0w30

Mobil 1 ESP x4 0w40.

Mobil Delvac 5w40

 

Spoiler alert: The Mobils are PAO Ester -base and the ACDelco is a Group III base. Mobil shows lower wear in their tests for similar weights. Additive packages between 20-30-40 weight ESP's appear to be the same, but only 0w20 is Dexos D licensed. Wear is even more reduced with 30 and 40 weight ESP although all perform very well and resist shear and provide very similar viscosities within temperature operating ranges in the 3.0.

 

There are even more surprises, so just go watch it.

 

 

[Chuck FB]

I caught three different videos, Lake Speeds and two of Gregs videos on the weekend and I instantly thought of your truck and if you had heard about these items yet which is why I took a peek in the 1500 series just now. Some very interesting findings were discovered by the looks of it and I was shocked at the results from the oil testing as the low engine speed with high torque load places a very different load on the bearings and hits home that viscosity certainly has relevance depending on the engine type and its operating speed and load.  

[Z45]

Makes me wonder what motivates these so-called experts (in their own minds) to make all these videos against 0W-20 Oils?  They will never change OEM's from recommending it.  Got to be making $$ somewhere from these crusades? 

 

 

[Chuck FB]

37 minutes ago, Z45 said:

Makes me wonder what motivates these so-called experts (in their own minds) to make all these videos against 0W-20 Oils?  They will never change OEM's from recommending it.  Got to be making $$ somewhere from these crusades? 

 

 

 

They can speak the truth ( and for arguments sake lets say they are speaking the truth based off of real data they have generated by UOA's and dyno data etc ) and inform those interested in their efforts such as us being remotely interested in what goes on under the hood so to speak. And their own gain as in the ones producing the videos, often comes down to money gained from viewership or in a round about way by prompting their business and expertise. Besides, it was GM themselves that came out with the technical bulletin to have owners of certain years of 6.2 engine to come to the dealership for a pico test of the engine and if it passed that then the engine was "officially" given the stamp of approval to switch over to the new warranty approved use of 0W-40 oil.  GM could easily have just done the pico test ( or do nothing and pretend there was no problem with the engines ) and sent them back out the door and never utter the words 0W-40 relative to the 6.2, to ever see the light of day but they did ... 

 

Of course in Lake Speeds situation I imagine its a lot of dollars out of his own gained funds from youtube ( and he clearly states that as well ) that he turns around and puts back into paying these specialty oil testing facilities to conduct testing to come up with results from such testing.  But at the end of the day the percentage of the driving public that see these videos are probably fairly small, no different then a forum like this as only so many GM owners have any interest in reading posts on a GM forum. 

[Atlas]

There's absolutely a mountain of profit in catering to the "I do my own research" crowd, people who are certain they know better. And I don't mean there isn't data to support that 0w40 produces less wear product than 0w20 in an engine like the 3.0 Duramax, that only feeds them the assurance they need. Again, my whole thing with oil selection is, sure, 0w40 or 0w30 produces less wear product. Are we talking the difference between the engine lasting only 100k versus 200k? Or are we talking more like, if the engine will already go 350k on a good 0w20 regimen recommended by the OE, is using 0w40 going to get us to 355k, assuming we can even get the rest of the truck to last that long, meanwhile sacrificing the first 5y, 100k in powertrain warranty. The answer isn't easy, there are tradeoffs.

 

I willfully use 0w20 Dexos D for this reason, knowing that a 0w40 will produce slightly less wear. I don't believe the delta in wear product is meaningful over the lifetime of the engine, and I place much more importance on driving style and overall feeding and care of the engine as a whole. It's the mentality that someone can abstain from alcohol their whole life which is an amazing boost to health by itself, theoretically. But if they're sedentary, that lifestyle choice will most likely kill them young despite their other, concerted efforts. Maybe someone doesn't drink AND they are the perfect picture of health and activity AND they use 0w40 AND they treat their engine perfectly. If living until 130 years is the goal, sure, do that. But it's going to be a really old truck falling apart around a good engine for that last 30 years, without a doubt.

 

I watched Demonworks' other video on the 100k+ 3.0 Duramax that had dealer 0w20 changes on what appears to be OLM-prescribed intervals (8-10k).

 

The QR codes are still present and readable on the main bearings. That's how little wear it has.

 

That's not proof that anyone else should stick to 0w20, but it's confirmation, for me, that 0w20 is perfectly acceptable to use in these engines.

[KARNUT]

6 minutes ago, Atlas said:

There's absolutely a mountain of profit in catering to the "I do my own research" crowd, people who are certain they know better. And I don't mean there isn't data to support that 0w40 produces less wear product than 0w20 in an engine like the 3.0 Duramax, that only feeds them the assurance they need. Again, my whole thing with oil selection is, sure, 0w40 or 0w30 produces less wear product. Are we talking the difference between the engine lasting only 100k versus 200k? Or are we talking more like, if the engine will already go 350k on a good 0w20 regimen recommended by the OE, is using 0w40 going to get us to 355k, assuming we can even get the rest of the truck to last that long, meanwhile sacrificing the first 5y, 100k in powertrain warranty. The answer isn't easy, there are tradeoffs.

 

I willfully use 0w20 Dexos D for this reason, knowing that a 0w40 will produce slightly less wear. I don't believe the delta in wear product is meaningful over the lifetime of the engine, and I place much more importance on driving style and overall feeding and care of the engine as a whole. It's the mentality that someone can abstain from alcohol their whole life which is an amazing boost to health by itself, theoretically. But if they're sedentary, that lifestyle choice will most likely kill them young despite their other, concerted efforts. Maybe someone doesn't drink AND they are the perfect picture of health and activity AND they use 0w40 AND they treat their engine perfectly. If living until 130 years is the goal, sure, do that. But it's going to be a really old truck falling apart around a good engine for that last 30 years, without a doubt.

 

I watched Demonworks' other video on the 100k+ 3.0 Duramax that had dealer 0w20 changes on what appears to be OLM-prescribed intervals (8-10k).

 

The QR codes are still present and readable on the main bearings. That's how little wear it has.

 

That's not proof that anyone else should stick to 0w20, but it's confirmation, for me, that 0w20 is perfectly acceptable to use in these engines.

I agree with this assessment. As you know I’m testing longevity with vehicles for the first time. I have a few vehicles I passed to kids and grandkids. We’re all past 100K miles some approaching 170K. I’m the only one doing 5k oil changes. The rest whatever the minder says. I’m the only one doing frequent transmission service. My odyssey the trip vehicle at 200K will be finished as a trip vehicle. I recently changed to high mileage oil, Valvoline. I can’t get past the fact that all manufacturers want to claim long service life. I just don’t make sense that they would go with low weight oil for mileage. While sacrificing longevity.

[Z45]

Lake Speed is drumming up business for his company just by being in the spot-light so he has a vested interest in stoking the 0W-20 fire.  IMO  

[Atlas]

No doubt... But, as someone who doesn't pay for his services, but who has provided a few views/clicks on his Youtube platform, the data around the Mobil oil testing I think does have some value including to "freeloaders" like me.

 

A lot of what he's doing is likely showing the OE's work in their oil selection, something that many of us had kind of assumed was true all along, a good balance of both excellent protection and efficiency.

[Chuck FB]

2 hours ago, Z45 said:

Lake Speed is drumming up business for his company just by being in the spot-light so he has a vested interest in stoking the 0W-20 fire.  IMO  

 

Yes I agree, its what amounts to free advertising to let people know about his UOA testing company, and not that there is anything wrong with that but certainly that is a motivator for putting out videos about the science of oil as well as other topics such as oil and air filtration etc. The interesting part I found with his last video is not only the physics behind the reason for the varying wear due to a diesels working torque range causing more bearing load and that higher viscosity oil is of benefit, it was also that the chemistry behind the GM Dexos 0W-20 and the Mobil Dexos licensed 0W-20 are far enough apart that its showing up with a difference in wear even though the two oils are matched in viscosity and in that comparison viscosity was not having the finger pointed at it. 

 

There are a few youtubers out there or one anyway that I have watched a bit of who has gone through the pains of accessing various countries manuals for a certain engine platforms and while in the US/Canada it may say use 0W-20 or what have you for some Toyota product, in some other countries it sings a very different tune for the very same engine with the typical traditional oil viscosity/ambient temperature charts to help choose which oil viscosity is correct for the conditions the vehicle will be used in and in some cases its taken an engine in a US manual that states only use 0W-20 as per warranty coverage and yet that same engine in certain other countries may have up to a 15W-40 etc oil option that meets the spec. Another words the guy who is driving through Death Valley or Phoenix and south weather at 120f is often being fed a line of bs by the US system that has forced vehicle companies to restrict the warranty to a specific low viscosity oil for anterior reasons as well as the long drain interval suggestions. I haven't come across anything yet with proper information to back up what GM says is ok to use for viscosity in some of the very hot climates of the world, I don't know how many GM pickups would end up in such countries to be honest and this isn't information that just jumps off of the internet, its in manuals only distributed in said countries. That was why I mentioned Toyota as per the youtuber that physically was over in some of these countries in some situations or was also able to get someone in said country to send him an excerpt of the oil information in that country. 

 

Thankfully youtube is free ( yet anyway ) for viewers to sift through information and of course comes with the good and the bad ( truth and lies ) and we can choose to turn off/not watch what a person finds is bs or just not interested in the topic. 

 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 08:05 PM by Chuck FB

[Atlas]

2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I agree with this assessment. As you know I’m testing longevity with vehicles for the first time. I have a few vehicles I passed to kids and grandkids. We’re all past 100K miles some approaching 170K. I’m the only one doing 5k oil changes. The rest whatever the minder says. I’m the only one doing frequent transmission service. My odyssey the trip vehicle at 200K will be finished as a trip vehicle. I recently changed to high mileage oil, Valvoline. I can’t get past the fact that all manufacturers want to claim long service life. I just don’t make sense that they would go with low weight oil for mileage. While sacrificing longevity.

 

Stan, this thread is specifically related to the Duramax 3.0, in the 2019-2026 powertrain subforum. If you'd like to talk about your other vehicles and offer anecdotal stories about them, please consider starting a thread in forum that pertains to your truck, or the other vehicles/ Off-Topic section if they are not a GM truck.

[Atlas]

Link to the Demonworks video, 100k+ Duramax 3.0 that somehow survived on OLM-prescribed intervals and dealer oil service.

 

 

[KARNUT]

11 minutes ago, Atlas said:

 

Stan, this thread is specifically related to the Duramax 3.0, in the 2019-2026 powertrain subforum. If you'd like to talk about your other vehicles and offer anecdotal stories about them, please consider starting a thread in forum that pertains to your truck, or the other vehicles/ Off-Topic section if they are not a GM truck.

I have access to about 20 diesel trucks with my business. And of course multiple gas trucks and cars. Zero-20 weight  oil is used in most all of them. But if you want to narrow down to one specific little diesel engine that’s fine. That’s what I get for agreeing with the idea of the use of lighter oil. In modern engines. And of course agreeing with you. I wouldn’t make that mistake again.

[KARNUT]

4 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I have access to about 20 diesel trucks with my business. And of course multiple gas trucks and cars. Zero-20 weight  oil is used in most all of them. But if you want to narrow down to one specific little diesel engine that’s fine. That’s what I get for agreeing with the idea of the use of lighter oil. In modern engines. And of course agreeing with you. I wouldn’t make that mistake again.

P.S You might want to read the heading to your thread. 

[Atlas]

What am I missing?

 

[Black02Silverado]

4 hours ago, Z45 said:

Lake Speed is drumming up business for his company just by being in the spot-light so he has a vested interest in stoking the 0W-20 fire.  IMO  

Maybe, but it seems he is the only one that has backed up data to prove what he is stating. I think he is doing this more because he enjoys it and wants to get the information out to us. He's got the knowledge and access to the proper equipment and having the funds doesn't hurt.  I would love to do what he is doing and would do it if and when I hit the Powerball.  I'm not a Tribologist by any means but love to learn what I can.

 

I would bet there would be doubting people out there if a completely independent lab with high quality work and highly respected in the automotive industry, put out information like this.  The world can't be pleased, one just has to take the information that they are given, do more of their own research to find actual lab data to back up what they are trying to figure/find out.  Most don't bother, they just want to believe what they first see.  

 

I don't have the minimax but my 6.2 in my 2019 Silverado with 64k miles shows excellent UOA results with 0w-20 and for my own purposes 5w-20.  Since not much of a change using 5w. I liked the data sheet information on the SS 5w-20 and figured I would give it a try.  Still the same viscosity at 100℃.

 

In the end we all just do what makes us happy, life is too short to get upset over trivial social media.

 

On a side note, I do feel GM has dropped the ball and just cares about the bottom dollar and not quality anymore.  "Like a Rock" has been long gone.  Seems "Built Ford Tough" has as well.