Header Questions

GlennRMK · July 2, 2004

I searched though a lot of old posts and gathered up that the Arizona Speed & Marine and The Other Guy headers seem to have the best rep.

So, anyone think one or the other is better?

The TOGs are cheaper in nickel, by about $25. But the ASMs are ceramic for the extra $25. Were the TOGs are an extra $150 to coat.

I have my snowmobile pipes ceramic coated and the stuff is great. So, I would lean towards the ceramic.

Anyone running the ASMs on a 5.3? They claim 22 hp and 25 ft lbs.

Anyone running the TOGs?

I am wanting some more low end torque(for light towing), and I figure headers and a custom tune(that gets rid of the stupid torque management) are the best way to pick some up.

Also, I just sold my Jeep for $5300(cash in pocket), so I have some more money for mods.

I am going to order a K&N FIPK tomarrow. Was going to order a PCM for Less ECU Monday, but if I get headers, I want to wait on the tune(till the headers are installed).

Saw the T-Byrne add, so I figure this is a good time to get the headers.

Also, is GM going to be a pain in the butt about warranty. Are they going to see my headers and say no warranty for you?

Theoretically, if my motor took a dump, would the headers void warranty(would they be able to prove the headers caused the failure). Or if the tranny craps out, are they going to say that the headers added power and fried the tranny?

Thanks

snoman · July 2, 2004

Headers would not effect mechincal warranty. Large tires with out proper re-gearing is the biggest threat to a warranty. As far as headers, you want long tube headers if you want maximum low speed torque. I used to live south of you 10 year ago and I know your area and it elevation and the power losses it can cause. I would suggect to you that you consider a supercharger instead as it will give you a bigger bang for your buck in that thinner air and yeild a much bigger usable power increase too. It could be done for under 5 grand and you would most definately feel the difference. If I still lived out there I would most likely supercharge as well just to recover sea level HP and then some.

Wingnut · July 2, 2004

Headers would not effect mechincal warranty. Large tires with out proper re-gearing is the biggest threat to a warranty. As far as headers, you want long tube headers if you want maximum low speed torque. I used to live south of you 10 year ago and I know your area and it elevation and the power losses it can cause. I would suggect to you that you consider a supercharger instead as it will give you a bigger bang for your buck in that thinner air and yeild a much bigger usable power increase too. It could be done for under 5 grand and you would most definately feel the difference. If I still lived out there I would most likely supercharge as well just to recover sea level HP and then some.

I disagree...I think that lift kits, and forced induction would be the biggest hinderance in filing a warranty claim.

Forced induction would void the warranty on any/all engine internals, tranny, transfer case differentials...The entire drivetrain.

But I do agree that a supercharger would be the best bang for the buck.

GlennRMK

If you slap headers on there, greatly increasing the flow of air out of the motor...To properly take advantage of that, you need a lot more air in. FIPK alone isn't going to cut it. You will most likely have to do a port/polish job on your heads to get enough air in to take full advantage of the headers ability to let air pass.

By that time, you are almost up to supercharger range in cost/time spent.

If you have the $$, just Whipple it. Quite a bit more power than the questionable 22 extra ponies those headers are claiming. (Might want to find out what RPM range they were at when they pulled those numbers).

That's my 6:45 a.m. $0.02 anyway.

snoman · July 2, 2004

It not the lift kit that does it, it is the big tires and not gearing the truck for them that kills warranty on engine and tranny. IF you re-gear truck to where it equals or is deeper overall (when factoring in tire size) then how truck shipped, they cannot really say squat about it.

Also what you gain with headers, decrease with altitude too as they cannot create a strong a vacum at the exhaust port from sound shock wave reflection and there is also less atmospheric air pressure to feed cyclinders too. If you want a meaningful power boost go with a supercharge. Normally I would recommand a postive displace unit like a Wipple or a Magnacharger/Raidex but in your case I think I would go with a centrifical one because it is easier to boost impeller speed with a smaller pulley for the thinner air to maintain higher boosts as you will not get 6 or 7 PSI with a whipple up there and will likey get 4 or 5psi at best if that without overspeeding it.

Mort · July 2, 2004

Glen, If warranty is a concern, as I am sure it is, then I would ask at your favorite dealership about their policy concerning mods. Some dealers are quite open and understanding about mods and some are very closed. It is always best to know their position before hand.

The PCM upgrade will give you a good bang for the buck but I am not so sure about the intake/header combination without head/cam work as Wingnut suggested. You will get something not just sure how much for the money invested. I put an Airforce One intake on mine and actually lost performance and took it off.

They say the LT headers are the way to go for maintaining low end torque. ASMs are a little longer than TOGs in that regard. I have also heard that they should be ceramic coated to maintain thermal efficiency and keep the O2 sensors up to temp or else they give false readings or something.

The twin screw Whipple seems like an interesting SC but it don't think that their kit comes with an intercooler as the Magnacharger Radix does and I think that the Magnacharger is better from that point of view. The centrifugal SC works at a higher RPM level and you will not get the bottom end performance from one that you will from a positive displacement SC. You can get the boost levels up to 8 or 9 with a Magnacharger but watch out for detonation. It may take a special tune as well as a pulley upgrade to get it to work safely.

The 4L60E is not a strong transmission and may not last if you push it too hard. A lot of guys are having to upgrade theirs after a while once they are SC.

If you are serious about SC check out Superchargers Online http://www.superchargersonline.com/index.asp, TByrne http://www.tbyrnemotorsports.com/index.html and the LS1Tech Forum http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/index.php? under Truck V8 Performance.

tmf6902 · July 2, 2004

After going through it with GM about my lift a number of times.....the tires have nothing to do with voiding the warranty. the front suspension cannot be covered, and that's it. The rear they will still cover, the engine and the tranny they will still cover. They told me, because no modifications had changed the location of the tranny, there wouldn't be a problem if I had to make a claim. Maybe your experience was different, this is what I've been told.

As far as re-gearing, and more work on the engine. I drive mostly highway miles....with my bigger meats I can a normal speed at a very low RPM. Wouldn't that put less wear and tear on the engine?

snoman · July 2, 2004

As far as re-gearing, and more work on the engine. I drive mostly highway miles....with my bigger meats I can a normal speed at a very low RPM. Wouldn't that put less wear and tear on the engine?

Thats put more strain on engine as they force it to run slower and make more torque yet to turn it all and the tranny has to handle it to. Contray to popular belief, a few RPM's do not hurt a small block (or a 4.8, 5.3 or 6.0) And with big meats doing 70 or so you need to be turing that engine at 2400 RPM or so to get engine in its better power range too. One of the main reason some people rag on gassers vs diesel is because geared the same diesel will do better because they make best torque arond 2000RPM, gassers usually do their best above 3000 torque wise and below 2000 are not efficent at all most of the time unless it is maybe a big block. Also I personally know of one guy that they would not replace his tranny under warranty and he had big meats and stock gearing. He sued and lost too. They told him at the start that if he had regeared they would have honored it. If he had thought quickly enough, he could have regeared the truck and took it in for warranty replacement. There is some dealer discretion here but you want to stack cards in your favor if possible.

1 Bad Burb · July 2, 2004

if u have 5300 ish to spend, heres what u need to do..listen carefully!

send payment to Aj, paypal id, 1badburb, and then i'll be ur best friend!

LOL.. no seriously, this is what u can do!

honestly, ASM and TOG are the best! basically the same, but u are paying for the name. i bought thorleys, and i love them! ceramic coated and all for 600 shipped. whatever u do, buy ceramic coated!!!

so u've spend about ~ $700 already on headers...hmm what to do with $4600.. well, the whipple kit is about 4g's i think, but not intercooled. radix..way out of the price range now. ati, hmm, could be pulled off. i think u could find a kit for about 3500 ish. also, ati is intercooled!

along with the s/c and headers, get an exhuast system! Borla makes a fantastic kit for chevys! all Stainless steel and they sound great! u should have about $600 ish left to spend on that.

u gotta remember, more air in, means need to get more air out faster! headers and exhuast will do that for u and go great in conjunction with a blower. i don't know what ur hp and tq ratings are right now, but i garuntee u, u will almost double the #'s. look at mine for example, 255hp and 330tq stock. with the ati kit, headers and exhuast, and NO TUNING, i put down 440hp and 506tq at the crank. (also note, i am running a larger pulley, still have a small one to put on)...

so, take this advice if u don't care about warranty... if u do care about waranty, well, a programmer like Westers or Nelsons is ur best bet. PCM4Less is good too i hear... ok, im tired of talkin, anyone else want to chime in?

any questions, let me know, anytime!

Aj

snoman · July 2, 2004

I would still go with a oversped centrifical up there were you are at as a whipples boost woulf drop of rapidly with altitude and is hard to overspeed (and more strian on it rotors and gears) to make up for it. Add one and while it may cost 4 grand or so, you will know it is there when boost is setup correctly for that altitude and will leave in the dust anyone that is not running one even if they have headers, custom ECM and what have you. Get header after a blower if you have money left over. It will feel like you have a engine transplant to a big block and then some.