Jump to content

Cracked Frame

animalguy

Recommended Posts

animalguy Enthusiast

animalguy

Posted
Posted

Ok here's the short story...as short as I can make it anyway.

 

I bought an '02 2500HD 8.1/allison with 48K miles on it from a GMC dealer who said it was "certified". I pulled my trailer for the first time this past weekend and about 100 miles from home on a 6% grade I got the service engine light. The truck was running good so I continued on, not letting it ruin my trip. Later the truck would not go into reverse and would stall when shifting to drive. Called the dealer they said drive it or tow it back to us or fix it on your dime(250 miles from home). By the end of the weekend after sitting a few days it was fine(light still on). So home I went. Stopped for gas and again with the no reverse and stalling in drive. Eventually it caught drive and off I went. Then it shifted to 3rd and stayed there for the rest of the trip 150 or so miles, so I drove it back at 45-50 mph. Finally it died again luckily very near a chevy dealer(not the original dealer) so in I went. They found mass air code, torque convertor code, gear range selector code. They found the wire harness for the trans had been rubbed by the radiator and was shorting out some sensor(s). they looked further and found the radiator not mounted correctly and mounted with "hardware store cheap bolts", then they found the frame was cracked in front of the driver's sway bar about 1.5" long and 0.5" wide. Upon further inspection all of the front body parts are misaligned and have new holes drilled to mount them and are mounted primarily with drywall screws, the radiator doesn't line up with mounts so the mounts were re drilled, skid plate bolts and holes didn't line up so again drywall screws were used to put it in place. On and On and On. The more you look the more you find hacked up. The air intake hose has no clamp after the MAF sensor so it is sucking unfiltered air causing the code for mass air sensor.

 

I limped it to the selling dealer for them to inspect. Of course the didn't beleive it and all kinds of neckties and techs swarmed the truck and now it sits and the dealership while they are deciding what to do with it. Last I heard they hadn't started with any of the body work/frame work. They were working on the trans and it was more than the sensors and they were doing a "line pressure test".

 

What are my options here? anybody have any advise to offer? The sales dept initially gave me the run around, but the sales manager seems to be stepping up saying "don't worry we'll make it right"

 

I'm worried they will only offer credit to something else on their lot and they don't have any thing else in my price range. Sure they have some nice 05-07's with diesels, but I didn't go that way first because of the budget. Now I sit with no tow vehicle (I traded in my older powerstroker) and am afraid I won't even have the option now of going to another dealership.

 

My theory is someone wrecked it and did a "backyard fix" on it and dumped it to the dealer as a trade using something like "I can't afford the gas" or some line

 

advise please!!!

ZZ327 Senior Enthusiast

ZZ327

Posted
Posted

holy s**t, thats a hard one. You might have a 2002 HD Paper weight on your hands. I would just See what they do to make it right, you might end up in a different truck.

Needgasmoney Enthusiast

Needgasmoney

Posted
Posted

That is the worst thing I believe I've ever heard, concerning a used vehicle. My first question to the Sales Manager would have been "are all of your "certified" vehicles put together with drywall screws?" Why didn't they discover this while they were inspecting it in order for it to become a "certified" truck? If I didn't get any satisfaction, I would make sure the General knew they were selling "certified" vehicles that are assembled with Elmer's glue and drywall screws.

mini1 Enthusiast

mini1

Posted
Posted

Sue them. You purchased a certified used vehicle that was in a wreck. That was not disclosed to you and a vehicle cannot be sold as certified if it has been in a wreck. You have a clear cut case to get a total refund plus you can sue them for time spent without a vehicle. Go rent a truck, then present those bills to a judge. Get your towing money back too. Do not take their repaired wreck back. The problem will always be a part of the vehicle and effect its resale value forever. Once you accept the wreck back, you have no case.

overlord1 Enthusiast

overlord1

Posted
Posted
Sue them. You purchased a certified used vehicle that was in a wreck. That was not disclosed to you and a vehicle cannot be sold as certified if it has been in a wreck. You have a clear cut case to get a total refund plus you can sue them for time spent without a vehicle. Go rent a truck, then present those bills to a judge. Get your towing money back too. Do not take their repaired wreck back. The problem will always be a part of the vehicle and effect its resale value forever. Once you accept the wreck back, you have no case.

 

I would have to agree. Anything less than a full refund plus damages like rental car, towing, etc. and I would say see you in court. I've always thought that "certified" vehicles was just another catch phrase to lure the unsuspecting into used car dealerships. Did they even put your truck on a lift or open the hood before throwing it on the lot?

davzog Enthusiast

davzog

Posted
Posted

Yep...do not let the dealer decide what he wants to do....you will certainly come out on the short end of it...

 

Be proactive....they sold you a wrecked truck....absolutely no doubt.

 

Get a lawyer lined up in case you have a battle....

 

However, I might suggest that before going to war, you decide exactly what YOU want and make a formal written request to the dealer (the owner, not the sales manager). See what they say, but don't negotiate....stand firm with the lawyer's number in you cell phone...

 

Good luck!!

whmayhew Enthusiast

whmayhew

Posted
Posted

I would agree with the above. Do not take this truck back! It probably was not initially the dealer's fault as to how it was repaired, but they should have caught it in their inspection. This truck will never be worth much money even if the dealer fixes it right. Talk to the owner and be adamant that you will not take this truck back. Hire a lawyer if you do not get satisfaction. The dealer needs to sue the previous owner, but he must make it right with you. Have him give you a good deal on one of the higher priced vehicles. Have someone inspect it before you sign the papers though. Good luck and stand your ground.

Draenor Senior Enthusiast

Draenor

Posted
Posted
Sue them. You purchased a certified used vehicle that was in a wreck. That was not disclosed to you and a vehicle cannot be sold as certified if it has been in a wreck. You have a clear cut case to get a total refund plus you can sue them for time spent without a vehicle. Go rent a truck, then present those bills to a judge. Get your towing money back too. Do not take their repaired wreck back. The problem will always be a part of the vehicle and effect its resale value forever. Once you accept the wreck back, you have no case.

 

I would have to agree. Anything less than a full refund plus damages like rental car, towing, etc. and I would say see you in court. I've always thought that "certified" vehicles was just another catch phrase to lure the unsuspecting into used car dealerships. Did they even put your truck on a lift or open the hood before throwing it on the lot?

 

 

+1, Get yourself an attorney immediately.

 

 

look to see if your state has a "lemon law" ........

 

Lemon Laws usually pertain to NEW vehicles. Check your states statute.

This is no lemon, this I consider fraud.

bgreene New Member

bgreene

Posted
Posted
Yep...do not let the dealer decide what he wants to do....you will certainly come out on the short end of it...

 

Be proactive....they sold you a wrecked truck....absolutely no doubt.

 

Get a lawyer lined up in case you have a battle....

 

However, I might suggest that before going to war, you decide exactly what YOU want and make a formal written request to the dealer (the owner, not the sales manager). See what they say, but don't negotiate....stand firm with the lawyer's number in you cell phone...

 

Good luck!!

 

I would agree wtih davzog, but to a further extent. Send a letter to the owner, and also to GM. While dealerships are owned privately, the manufacturers have the greatest amount of power over them, with regards to what inventory they get, where their orders end up in line, and all said and done, a vehicle like this truly represents GM, not the dealership, and especially right now, GM is doing everything they can to protect their image in the eyes of consumers. Make them HIGHLY aware of this, and in your letter make sure you specify a date to which they must have a resolution which meets your requests, and if they dont meet that date, then you bring in the lawyer. Everyone in this country is so quick to sue, and not to say you dont have the right here to do so, but you may find out that you come out in the end much better off going this route. But if you get GM on your side, and aware of this, you will come out much better in the end.

 

Just .02 cents from someone who has been through something similar.

dsmazz Enthusiast

dsmazz

Posted
Posted

I think you are getting some fairly good advice here. Of course, ultimately, you'll have to make the decision. If you do decide to write a letter to GM, I would also write a letter to your State Attorney General, send him/her copies of any other letters you write, like to the dealership and/or GM, and on those letters at the bottom, put CC: Whatever State, State Attorney General. That will put them on notice that you mean business. Good luck.

animalguy Enthusiast

animalguy

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for the advice. I feel this probably will end up with legal action, but for now I don't want to bring legal in since that will be the quickest way to get people to quit talking to me. I am working with consumer protection to find where I stand. Yesterday the sales manager was talking about possibly making a good deal on a new truck. Time will tell.

Burbman Enthusiast

Burbman

Posted
Posted

Just to clarify, the dealer does NOT have to disclose if the truck was in an accident, only if it has been "totaled" and has a salvage or flood title. If the vehicle was presented as "certified" used, the dealer is no doubt very embarassed that someone let this slip through. In fact, GM would probably pull the dealer's ability to sell certified used vehicles if this became an issue.

 

You don't necessarily have a legal remedy because of the condition of the vehicle. Used cars are sold "as is". Any reputable dealer will gladly let you take the car/truck to your independent mechanic for a look-over before you purchase. If the condition is as bad as it sounds, hard to believe that you didn't catch it. BUT, if the vehicle was presented as "certified" used, I probably wouldn't have looked at it that closely either, so can't blame you for not going over it that closely, or taking it to a mechanic for that matter. That's why dealers get to charge a little more for certified used cars, they are supposed to do all that stuff for you.

 

I wouldn't fly off the handle...yet....As I said, the dealer is likely so embarassed about putting this truck on his lot for sales as a certified vehicle, he'll likely bend over backwards to make it right for you. He may offer a killer deal on a new truck, but if that's still more than you want to spend, he may offer to locate a similar used vehicle from some other GM dealer, in which case you may have to wait while he transports it. Or, he may offer to buy it back from you, which means you have your $$ but still no tow vehicle. If the dealer is reputable, I'm betting you'll walk away a happy customer without needing a lawyer.

 

Threatening legal action too soon may cause the dealer to NOT help you, because any remedy he offers could be construed as an admission of guilt and weaken his legal position if he thinks you're serious about suing.

 

Keep us posted on how this turns out, and good luck! I know if this was me, I'd be really steamed!

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Go to topic listing

  • Latest Articles

  • Posts

    • Deadwood
      primary drive belt tensioner

      By Deadwood · Posted

      I bought belts and pulleys for my '20 L5P at Rock Auto a couple years ago. I have used them for many years, and almost always save significant money, especially when I buy maintenance stuff ahead of time.   They carry many OEM parts, which is all I use unless an aftermarket is shown to be same/superior, or if it is an insignificant part or unavailable OEM part anywhere else. RA is usually lower priced, often by a bunch, but parts are sometimes unavailable or out of stock, and I do shop around and sometimes find better prices at other sites.   Be aware that you pay shipping, and if you buy multiple items and they are coming from different warehouses, the shipping can kill the advantage. Planning ahead is best if possible.   If you have a transmission service in the near future, check out their OEM (AC Delco ULV) fluid, usually MUCH less than anywhere else.
    • Deadwood
      10L1000 anyone with High Mileage ? I hate Damocles....

      By Deadwood · Posted

      New member here, very long time occasional guest. Saw this thread, thought it would be a good time to contribute someting. It is only my experience and not a claim that everyone will have the same.   I bought my '20 3500 L5P new and have put 99.9% (literally) of it's current ~400k miles on it myself, with over 50% of that towing loads between 4k to 15k, and to me this truck has been nothing short of amazing. For the first 235k I had zero issues, and from there until 321k I replaced a NOx sensor, two failing glow plugs, and three of the notorious injector connectors. I believe this truck is in part, a testament to good luck, but also good care and following a decent maintenance schedule (I also keep meticulous records.) As a result, it looks as good as a well cared for 70k rig, up and down, inside and out.   At some point before that 321k mile mark I began to get a little spooked about the 10L1000, especially the valve body. Word of mouth about potential issues prompted me to jump on the net to sift through all the noise and determine what all the fuss was about. I routinely take long trips, coast-to-coast and points in between, so roadside breakdowns can be '...a thousand miles from nowhere' and a bit of a challenge, and though I had no issues, my guard was up and activated.   And then I stumbled across a chance to salvage some parts off a new 2025 that had been wrecked in transport. I grabbed a few wear items (alternator, pulleys, etc.) and on a whim asked what the ten speeder would cost me. It was cheap...really cheap. I knew some changes had been made in the '24+ version 10L and were supposedly not compatible, but I called service/parts at my local Chevy dealer and asked why and they didn't know. A call to a well known aftermarket transmission outfit revealed it was very likely it would be fine, but to them not 100% sure.   Because it was cheap (really cheap) and I was spooked, I took the chance. Had it installed by a local shop and it worked like a champ, shifted just like the original. At it's first service at 37k, I had the shop put in a Next Gen valve body kit, which after some initial hiccups and rough shifts, smoothed out though with somewhat firmer shifting.   All that said, I have a very serious concern about my newer transmission as just two weeks ago it suddenly began to exhibit a strong reluctance to engage forward or reverse. It was a bit past due anyway so I took it in for service. The reason it was sticking was due to 'glitter' in the fluid clogging the filter...not good folks, often indicates a converter giving out. We ended up going ahead with the new filter and fluid, first to see if it would move and shift, and then if so buy me a little time. It did, and I've driven it over a thousand miles and it is shifting smooth, no noises or slipping. Regardless, it looks like a third gearbox is in my future so I can resume taking long trips with some confidence. In the very short term, my curiosity will have me examining the fluid to check how much glitter has reappeared.   An earlier poster had alleged, in the context of 10L100 failures, that it is another example of how we seasoned citizens somehow descend into hysteria, lose control of our senses, and react irrationally after brief encounters with the idiocy of the internet infosphere. Let me say (and I have used and abused said internet since it's infancy) there is no segment of the populace that has a corner on over-reaction to digital garbage. Just as my offering of experience in this arena is purely anecdotal and should not be considered gospel or all-encompassing, I believe it is still worthwhile information to consider, along with other relevant anecdotal experiences about things like complex transmissions, especially when balanced with other sources.   So to answer the original question, yes I got high miles out of my first 10L, trouble free for 321,000. Now I really wonder how much longer it would have went. Did I 'overreact' to the internet ghouls by replacing a 'good' one with a 'bad' one? Maybe. Who knows, the thing might have taken a puke a 100 miles later. So I'll just fix it again, then move on and start thinking about all the other stuff that will eventually wear out. It still has the original brakes (they're at ~60%), original injectors/pump, turbo, water pump, etc....pretty much original everything. Knock on wood.
    • swathdiver
      6 Speed vs 8 Speed

      By swathdiver · Posted

      At peak temperature.  They get to cool down and warm up more, especially those with the external cooler.  I have three GMT900s and one of them has over 225K on its original transmission.  Fluid gets changed about every 36K miles, all of it.     It's not the bean counters, it was the government.  They had to meet CAFE standards and other government requirements.   To get around that, we tune them and modify them to our liking.
    • GMCustomerService
      Will not stay in Reverse

      By GMCustomerService · Posted

      Our customers' safety isn't something we take lightly. To ensure you get the proper assistance for your truck's repairs, please fill out the form at https://s.chevy.com/support-request with all pertinent details including your username.
    • GMCustomerService
      2026 Z71 Forward and Rear Park Assist help

      By GMCustomerService · Posted

      We appreciate you sharing your experience with your truck. To ensure we get you the proper assistance, please fill out the form at https://s.chevy.com/support-request with all pertinent details including your username.

  • GM-Trucks.com Clubs

  • Popular Contributors

×
×
  • Create New...