Who wants a diesel Canyon or Colorado - GM adds the codes

[Doug_Scott]

I can't imagine that's right. If people were dropping that sorta cash at just 100k then no one would buy that junk motor.

 

That's why I was wondering if it was the environment here. I know of 6 people that have purchased diesel pickup trucks(Fords, GMs and Dodge), and 4 of them had injector pump failures that required about half the cost of the diesel option to fix them. Not really being into ever buying a diesel pickup myself, I have not really gone into what is actually failing or why they are. The two that have not had any issues are one GM and one Dodge.

[Jsdirt]

It could be that those guys were trying to run something other than ULTRA low sulfur diesel - from what I understand, if you run ANYTHING but that, the pumps fail on these new ones.

 

No 3:1 used motor oil to regular gasoline on these ones ...

[Doug_Scott]

It could be that those guys were trying to run something other than ULTRA low sulfur diesel - from what I understand, if you run ANYTHING but that, the pumps fail on these new ones.

 

No 3:1 used motor oil to regular gasoline on these ones ...

 

Could very well be. In europe diesel is widely accepted, and must be reliable. Any idea what they use for fuel there? I think the auto makers here ruined the diesel market for consumers with the non-commercial crap they tried to sell a few decades ago. I recall driving a customers diesel Chevette that you could not read the gauges at idle due to the vibration in the dash from the idling engine. They did manage to make a Chevette even slower though. VW was selling their diesel cars then as well, they were not great either, but, they did run forever.

[Jsdirt]

Funny you should use that example - my father-in-law was driving a '81 Chevette diesel up until 3 years ago when a teenage girl backed out of her driveway without looking (common practice in Worcester, MA ...) and T-boned him, pretty much totaling the car. He's got a parts one all ready to go to transplant the driveline into ... but he hasn't found the motivation yet.

 

He burned #2 HHO in it (basically same as diesel but no road tax), or used motor oil when he accumulated too much. Slow as slow can be, but great mileage and was pretty damn reliable for an econobox. I'll have to see if my wife has any pics of it. The guys at the inspection station must've got wide eyed every year that thing rolled in ...

 

On that note I just saw a 20k mile Chevette on eBay last week - got up to $2,800, but the reserve was not met. I still wouldn't give 'em $800 for it!

[Cowpie]

Took a look at what the B10 and B50 numbers mean, and I don't think they cover the most common big expense to be feared. As I have posted before, expecting a customer to pay $4k to $6k after 100,000 miles to rebuild the injector pumps is just not right. I know a few commercial truckers and they say if they had to cover that a couple times a year it would be tough to make money. Are injector pump failures something that only impacts diesel vehicles that operate in 4 distinct seasons? One thing to note though, the VW car TDI(TDH) engines do not have the same issues.

 

I have been running commercial semi truck diesels since the 1980's. I have yet to have to repair or replace a single fuel injection system. A couple of injectors, but never pumps, rails, etc. One motor, a 1996 Cummins N-14, I took to 1.4 million miles with only one injector replaced and one accessory drive seal replaced. That truck went right to work for next owner. Took a 2006 Cummins ISX to 986,000 when I sold it. Not one new injector or fuel system component repair or replacement. It did get a new cam as their was a bad run of rockers that Cummins put in quite a few ISX's. My present Detroit Series 60 motor is a factory rebuilt and has 403,000 miles on it. Not one motor issue whatsoever and uses less oil in 25,000 miles than most of the 5.3L vortec AFM motors mentioned in these threads. About 2 qts of oil in 25,000 miles on that 12.7L motor. All of these did, or still do, work year round from -30F to 115F grossing up to 80,000 lb running on the same diesel available at any pump to anyone else.

 

My 2006 Jeep Liberty Diesel with a 2.8L VM Motori inline 4 that is virtually the same motor GM is putting in the new Colorado, except it only had EGR and not the DPF / SCR stuff the new ones have. Over 150,000 miles and it never had one fuel system related problem. Did lose a glow plug at around 115,000, but that was an easy fix. Bosch Common Rail system just as good as the day I bought the vehicle new. Ran used oil samples on it occasionally and all of them looked great. Got 11,000 mile oil changes and used about 1/4 to 1/2 quart in that time.

 

Fuel system problems do occur, but usually due to not buying quality fuel, not treating it during cold weather properly, not changing filters on a regular basis and not using the proper micron rating filter, not treating fuel tanks with a good biocide occasionally to prevent diesel eating micro critters from setting up home in the fuel tanks, etc. All of this only costing chump change pennies per gallon of fuel used in comparison to dealing with failed fuel system components. Diesels are not very forgiving of mediocre maintenance and poor operation by owner. You have to be proactive or you will be blasted in the wallet for only being reactive in your maintenance practices. Many folks run into problems because they go about things with a diesel like they did with their gassers.

[Jsdirt]

That's the kind of reliablility I expect to see out of a diesel.

 

I see this alot too (lack of maintenance), especially the past 10 years. Quality or no quality, can't have a vehicle last forever without a little preventative maintenance.

 

Probably part of the reason they sell vehicles with ungreaseable ball joints today -nobody wants to be bothered. We know the other half is, they save .001 cents on each grease fitting, and a penny for every 4 ball joints on the grease ...

[Spurshot]

I'm interested to see how this little diesel does. A lot of people seem fascinated by it. I have no particular desire to own one, but it's a popular subject around here.

[crafferty]

I'm interested to see how this little diesel does. A lot of people seem fascinated by it. I have no particular desire to own one, but it's a popular subject around here.

The reason it's so popular is that these small diesels have been in foreign markets for years. Even GM has had one in Africa and India for at least 10 years. Personally I think one of these little ZR-2 diesels would make a great hunting truck. And it would be fun to play with a diesel in such a small package.

[Cowpie]

I would agree with that. A full blown Dmax in a 3/4 or 1 ton is really out of a lot of people's league for being anything realistic for what they need. For many folks, it is just something for bragging rights. The 2.8L in the Colorado, now that is getting realistic for the bulk of pickup owners, and the best way to go if one wants the testosterone factor that seems to surround diesel ownership, for some reason I can't figure out. It offers excellent fuel economy, and would be more than ample for any demands on power with that pickup. And if it is anything like the VM Motori 2.8L (which I think it really is), it will be very cost effective for owners. For what you get, it is worth the extra cost. And it will not be much more to keep it running that the typical gas motor if taken care of properly and driven properly. And the icing on the cake is that it will deliver some very impressive mpg numbers.

[pcf]

I think most of the 3/4 and 1 ton diesel problems are from the manufacturers hot rodding the engines, any of the big 3's diesels put out equal or better numbers than a base model Paccar PX-9. 2.2-2.3L less displacement and similar numbers, there's no such thing as a free lunch. It's great to have bragging rights to the most horsepower and torque, but it comes at a cost. The engines run at higher RPMs, there's a lot more stress on the engine and the fuel system has to move fuel at higher pressure. The engines in most of the 6-7 liter diesels in medium duty trucks are in the 200-300 horsepower (500-600lb ft torque) range. The medium duties work their engines pretty hard but they are surprisingly reliable. There's a lot to be said for not pushing an engine to it's mechanical limits, especially when it's for the sake of who has the biggest numbers.

 

Hopefully GM doesn't go crazy and try to hop up the little Duramax to the point that reliability suffers.

[Jsdirt]

That's not it at all - reliability is suffering due to manufacturers trying to save a buck. That's it, plain and simple. Every time they cheap out on something, it becomes failure prone.

 

I've never heard of any D-max throwing a rod, burning a piston, or trashing a crank in stock form. It's a well built engine. When you add crap injectors, and electronics built by the lowest bidder, it becomes unreliable. There's guys out there pushing over 1,000 ft.lbs. through these engines in modified form. Any weakness will show immediately at those power levels. It's the same with all GM engines - the engines themselves are great, but they control them with sensors and controls built by the lowest bidder.

 

 

My brother's Duramax just left him on the side of the road, 4 hours from home, thanks to electronics controlling the injectors ...

[crafferty]

I would agree with that. A full blown Dmax in a 3/4 or 1 ton is really out of a lot of people's league for being anything realistic for what they need. For many folks, it is just something for bragging rights. The 2.8L in the Colorado, now that is getting realistic for the bulk of pickup owners, and the best way to go if one wants the testosterone factor that seems to surround diesel ownership, for some reason I can't figure out. It offers excellent fuel economy, and would be more than ample for any demands on power with that pickup. And if it is anything like the VM Motori 2.8L (which I think it really is), it will be very cost effective for owners. For what you get, it is worth the extra cost. And it will not be much more to keep it running that the typical gas motor if taken care of properly and driven properly. And the icing on the cake is that it will deliver some very impressive mpg numbers.

 

Exactly! Now we just need the baby Dmax, 4.5L of fun.

[Jsdirt]

If they'd put that in the half-ton Silverado, I'd be tempted to buy one.

 

Just another point on the subject of horsepower/torque - I've never heard someone complain that they had TOO MUCH power. For most guys (myself included), if they're buying a truck, they're going to use it to tow or haul stuff around. The more power the better. Just because something has 600HP doesn't mean you use all of it all the time. It's VERY nice to have when needed, though.

[Doug_Scott]

Something I have noticed in some forums are people that get in a diesel pickup for the first time and expect that high torque number to make the truck fast. They are disappointed.

 

I think anytime you take a stock diesel engine and start asking it to run higher rpms than it was designed for you are asking for immediate problems. Gas engines are a fair bit more forgiving in this regard, but they to have their limit.

 

Typically diesels are not high revving engines, and they don't need to be. I have looked, but cannot find what rpm range the Audi R10 diesel was running in for the 24 hours of LeMans. Would be interesting to see those specs, Audi pretty much dominated with that diesel engine(beyond the advantage of being the first).

[Cowpie]

That is because they don't understand what HP and torque are and have no real clue the curve relationships. HP will get you out of the hole, but torque takes you over the hill. My Detroit 60 12.7L is rated at 500 hp, but it is also puts out 1750 lb of torque. Just today, I was chasing 2500HD and 3500HD pickups with Dmax's up hills with their 5th wheel RV's and goosenecks and I had 12,000 lb of trailer loaded with 45,000 lb of freight hooked on to my semi tractor for a total gross of around 77,000 lb. And I have 2.64 diff ratios. I was on top of these guys' back ends on those hills while only turning 1450-1500 RPM in my semi, popping about 32 lb of boost with around 800F temp on the pyro. My motor hits peak torque at 1200 RPM and goes to 1550 before it starts down. HP doesn't even reach peak till 2100 RPM, and I never run it that high. Ever. If I did, torque would drop off substantially and I would lose. HP does mean something, but torque is where the focus should be with a diesel, and you have to know how to use it effectively. And that doesn't mean putting the RPM's up at red line. At the typical 1450-1500 RPM's I was chasing these guys on the hills at, I was only putting out about 400 of the available 500 HP yet I was walking all over them because I was in the center of the RPM range for max torque. If you know the relationship on how this all works for your motor, you get pretty good results.