CAT scale results

EastCoast HD · September 29, 2015

I was finally able to get my TV/TT combo scaled this past week.

Here are the details........

TV - 2015 GMC Sierra 1500 DC 4X4 5.3 6A 3.42 axle

TT - 2016 Bullet Premier 31BHPR

TV - GVWR / Payload

TT - GVWR / Payload

TV - Base scale weight (driver, full fuel, aluminum tool box, bed rug)

TV / TT - WDH bars unloaded

TV / TT - WDH bars loaded

EastCoast HD · September 29, 2015

Couple of quick notes...

I knew before hand I would be close to maxing out both payload and hitch ratings.

TT was partially loaded, with approximately 75% of the cargo forward of the front axle. (I know proper set up is 60/40 frt./rr.)

Around 10 gallons of water combined in the tanks.

All of that weight (water, front storage items, 2-propane bottles[full], house battery) totaled around 360 lbs.

Husky CS Centerline WDH - 85 lbs.

...................................................................................

Looks like tongue weight is right at 1200 lbs.

Payload, around 180 pounds to spare. That will quickly be used up by additional passengers and "stuff".

All in all, close to what I expected. I can definitely reduce tongue weight by better balancing of TT cargo and the WDH can use a little tweaking. Ordered a Sherline tongue scale that will help get things better dialed in.

Leaning towards upgrading the TV to a NHT optioned half ton to take advantage of the additional payload.

Thoughts?

ember1205 · September 30, 2015

PassengerS? That's one passenger. No stuff.

jvbronco · September 30, 2015

Thanks for sharing. I am looking at a similar sized trailer. A couple questions. How does the 5.3 do pulling it? How about handling? What about stopping?

Blue2500CC · September 30, 2015

1080lbs is what I came up with for the tw, 6900-5820.

While it was only you in the truck, you are 220lbs light on the front axle with the wd bars latched up. It probably won't hurt to adjust the hitch head for a little more weight transfer to the fa.

As for the somewhat empty truck and trailer, just how much more do you have weight wise: passengers, cargo in the truck, and cargo in the trailer? How much more payload does the Max Tow have now in the new truck, can't remember?

JV, our last truck, '10 CCSB with the "old" 5.3, same set up otherwise as East has: 4x4 5.3/6spd/3.42 I never FELT I needed more power pulling ~7200lbs, but that is here in Mi also. But the gross combined was also over 14k lbs if I remember right. Will have to look at my weight slips since I still have them. The biggest issue is the limited payload of a 1500!!!!

Flatland Shooter · September 30, 2015

The NHT (Max Towing Pkg) increases the GVWR from 7200# to 7600#.

I spent some time at the dealerships last Spring trying to find a Chevy or GMC with 6.2L and NHT. Never found one in stock.

Checked Chevrolet.com and GMC.com last night and found one Chevy and six GMCs locally. Now to see if they are willing to deal.

(Error: 7600# is GVWR not GCWR)

ember1205 · September 30, 2015

The NHT (Max Towing Pkg) increases the GCWR from 7200# to 7600#.

I spent some time at the dealerships last Spring trying to find a Chevy or GMC with 6.2L and NHT. Never found one in stock.

Checked Chevrolet.com and GMC.com last night and found one Chevy and six GMCs locally. Now to see if they are willing to deal.

Your statement makes absolutely no sense.

First, GCWR is the gross COMBINED weight rating. You've likely stated a change to the GVWR instead. Additionally, the GVWR and GCWR numbers are different from one model to the next, and also vary by motor and axle ratio.

gmckenzie · September 30, 2015

Your statement makes absolutely no sense.

First, GCWR is the gross COMBINED weight rating. You've likely stated a change to the GVWR instead. Additionally, the GVWR and GCWR numbers are different from one model to the next, and also vary by motor and axle ratio.

While you are right that he meant the GVWR, the NHT package for 2014 had a 7,200 GVWR while the 2015 NHT package is 7,600 GVWR (and 4,300 RAWR). The NHT package is the max trailering and either has a 5.3L 3.73 or a 6.2L 3.42. Makes perfect sense.

Flatland Shooter · September 30, 2015

ember1205 noticed I incorrectly referenced the GCWR when It should be GVWR.

Post edited to correct.

Thanks.

Blue2500CC · September 30, 2015

To only gain ~400lbs of payload by trading in for a NHT Max Tow model, it would have to be one heck of a deal to make it worth it since you have a '15 already. In Flatland's case, if his avatar rigs are the "current" vehicles he has, then definitely a good time to get the NHT if looking to buy a new truck anyway.

It will be interesing to hear back as far as the rest of the passenger weight that was missing and just how much cargo weight is normally in the bed....

TW looks to be just about 15.25% with the way the tt is currently loaded: 1080lbs/7080lbs.... Good there as 12-15% is the target. Some trailers like more, some less....

EastCoast HD · September 30, 2015

1080lbs is what I came up with for the tw, 6900-5820.

While it was only you in the truck, you are 220lbs light on the front axle with the wd bars latched up. It probably won't hurt to adjust the hitch head for a little more weight transfer to the fa.

As for the somewhat empty truck and trailer, just how much more do you have weight wise: passengers, cargo in the truck, and cargo in the trailer? How much more payload does the Max Tow have now in the new truck, can't remember?

JV, our last truck, '10 CCSB with the "old" 5.3, same set up otherwise as East has: 4x4 5.3/6spd/3.42 I never FELT I needed more power pulling ~7200lbs, but that is here in Mi also. But the gross combined was also over 14k lbs if I remember right. Will have to look at my weight slips since I still have them. The biggest issue is the limited payload of a 1500!!!!

To only gain ~400lbs of payload by trading in for a NHT Max Tow model, it would have to be one heck of a deal to make it worth it since you have a '15 already. In Flatland's case, if his avatar rigs are the "current" vehicles he has, then definitely a good time to get the NHT if looking to buy a new truck anyway.

It will be interesing to hear back as far as the rest of the passenger weight that was missing and just how much cargo weight is normally in the bed....

TW looks to be just about 15.25% with the way the tt is currently loaded: 1080lbs/7080lbs.... Good there as 12-15% is the target. Some trailers like more, some less....

Thanks for the replies Blue

You seem to be spot on with your numbers! Indeed a TW of 1080 lbs. seems more accurate.

I knew I needed three separate scales but could not remember the correct formulas, LOL.

I searched the web and found a formula that supports your number (I'll post that separately).

Does this mean I also picked up an additional 120lbs. of payload as well?

In response to the FA being "light".......

The owners manual states to only gain back around 50% of the weight. It's just about right there.

On the other hand, the Husky instructions state the front should be close to level with the rear. Current set up has the front about 1/2" higher.

Based on current towing feel, the front steering felt very slightly lighter than when I pulled it home from the dealer empty. I agree with you that restoring a bit more weight to the FA would help. My plan is to add one additional washer the ball, adding a bit more preload to the bars.

Additional weight in the TV would be two added passengers around 225 lbs. total. Any additional cargo would go in the TT. Food in the fridge (over the axles), maybe 2-3 hundred pounds in the rear (bunkhouse). That's about it.

Only real crux I see is, the ability to carry water.

Thus the reference to upgrading to an "NHT" optioned truck.

Again, thanks for the replies and keep them coming!

EastCoast HD · September 30, 2015

Formula used.......

Weighing #1 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA1"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA1"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT1"

Weighing #2 -- TT attached and Weight Distribution Not Activated

Let Front Axle Load be "FA2"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA2"

Let TT Axles Load be "TT2"

Then, drive off scales and drop TT. Return to scales and take

Weighing #3 -- TV only -- TT Not Attached

Let Front Axle Load be "FA3"

Let Rear Axle Load be "RA3"

From the above values, you can calculate:

TV weight = FA3 + RA3

Gross Combined Weight = (FA1 + RA1 + TT1)
- should also be equal to (FA2 + RA2 + TT2) if scale weights are correct

TT Weight = Gross Combined Weight - TV Weight

Tongue Weight = (FA2 + RA2) - (FA3 + RA3)

Load Transferred to TT Axles
when WD System in Activated = TT1 - TT2

Blue2500CC · October 1, 2015

YW!

It sounds like you may be just under the payload of your truck then if only the passengers were missing. Close, but another trip loaded up 100% will tell for sure.... Some will not pay as close attention to the gvwr as they will the axle ratings. They figure if they are under the (rear) axle ratings, then they are good to go. As you can see, we have a 2500HD due to being over the gvwr, but under the rear axle on our '10-1500, though it was by only about 40lbs.... So it's your call what ratings you want go by. It is a tough call...

The reason you want 3 trips across the scale is to figure the tw, you need weights without the wd bars latched up as well.

Weigh slip #8638: add fa + ra, then subtract (fa +ra) of weigh slip #8639= tw.

Looking at the example in the your last post, it looks like you may have mixed the #'s up a little with the different weighings. Truck/ trailer w/ wd bars latched up should all have #1's: fa1, ra1, tt1. Truck/ trailer w/ wd bars unlatched- #2's: fa2, ra2, tt2. Truck only-#3's: fa3, ra3. If I remember right, the CAT Scales can vary 20lb's on a scale. Though I haven't seen a 40lb difference in the total before.

I have learned a fair amount, BUT still have a lot to learn! Lol

Jon A · October 1, 2015

Leaning towards upgrading the TV to a NHT optioned half ton to take advantage of the additional payload.

Thoughts?

It depends upon how much you care about the number on the sticker for the sake of having the number on a sticker. There were no mechanical changes made to the 2015 NHT for the increased payload--they simply changed the number on the sticker. No actual increase in capability or safety.

If you want to increase the capability, ride and handling under load and overall safety, a set of airbags, better shocks and some LT tires will do dramatically more for you than than the switch to NHT will. Swapping for a new truck will cost you thousands, for that much money you could buy some really, really nice shocks....

But there's nothing wrong with wanting to abide by the exact number on the sticker either. It'll keep the internet happy and maybe you're looking for an excuse to get a new truck anyway. There's no shame in that.

EastCoast HD · October 1, 2015

Looking at the example in the your last post, it looks like you may have mixed the #'s up a little with the different weighings.

Fixed, copy & paste formatting issue!

It depends upon how much you care about the number on the sticker for the sake of having the number on a sticker. There were no mechanical changes made to the 2015 NHT for the increased payload--they simply changed the number on the sticker. No actual increase in capability or safety.

If you want to increase the capability, ride and handling under load and overall safety, a set of airbags, better shocks and some LT tires will do dramatically more for you than than the switch to NHT will. Swapping for a new truck will cost you thousands, for that much money you could buy some really, really nice shocks....

But there's nothing wrong with wanting to abide by the exact number on the sticker either. It'll keep the internet happy and maybe you're looking for an excuse to get a new truck anyway. There's no shame in that.

All good points Jon, thanks for sharing.

I'm considering all the enhancements you mention as well. All of which can be done for a couple grand. This is one route I can go, I know.

I don't really agree with your comment about "NHT" package.

Increased rear spring rates, beefier 3.73 rear axle, upgraded cooling, increased payload and GCWR all J2807 certified. It's quite a bit more than changing the numbers on a sticker.

I could simply get a 2500 and never really worry about any of this. I could haul water and other cargo including a generator and have payload and TW to spare.

Trying to stay with a 1500, it's a much more practical truck for my needs over all.

Most people would buy an RV suitable to their TV. I did it backwards I guess, LOL.