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Direct Injection Engines and Carbon Deposits

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Cowpie Senior Enthusiast

Cowpie

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Also a good oil catch can placed in the PCV line from the valve cover to the intake manifold will prevent a lot of crud getting the intake and thus on the valves and help reduce buildup problems. Have used a catch can on my previous 2013 pickup and now my 2015 pickup. The amount of oil it catches virtually mirrors the amount of oil my engines "use" between oil changes.

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Hammer1963 Enthusiast

Hammer1963

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I have not so much a concern but a curious thought. I installed a Moroso Catch can shortly after i Bought my 14 GMC 5.3 Sierra, after driving it for 2000 miles i emptied the can and i was amazed at how much nasty gunk came out of it. After that 1st draining, i purchased a Range AFM disable device that gets plugged into the diagnostics port to stop the engine from going into 4 cylinder mode. A few days ago i figured i would check and drain the catch  can since i had around 2000 miles since my last draining, and i was shocked at not only the amount but how watery it looked, it wasn't oily at all. Looking at it i have to assume that it is the moisture being evacuated from the crankcase and collects in the can. My question is could the AFM be causing excess oil deposits that would in time cause problems on the valves? 

 

I am going to perform a little experiment and remove the Range from the diagnostic port and do an oil change and run it for the same miles and see if the gunky stuff  comes back, if it does what does that tell me? However on 2nd thought do i really want all those contaminates going into my engine. 

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mookdoc6 Senior Enthusiast

mookdoc6

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On ‎1‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 11:22 AM, Hammer1963 said:

I have not so much a concern but a curious thought. I installed a Moroso Catch can shortly after i Bought my 14 GMC 5.3 Sierra, after driving it for 2000 miles i emptied the can and i was amazed at how much nasty gunk came out of it. After that 1st draining, i purchased a Range AFM disable device that gets plugged into the diagnostics port to stop the engine from going into 4 cylinder mode. A few days ago i figured i would check and drain the catch  can since i had around 2000 miles since my last draining, and i was shocked at not only the amount but how watery it looked, it wasn't oily at all. Looking at it i have to assume that it is the moisture being evacuated from the crankcase and collects in the can. My question is could the AFM be causing excess oil deposits that would in time cause problems on the valves? 

 

I am going to perform a little experiment and remove the Range from the diagnostic port and do an oil change and run it for the same miles and see if the gunky stuff  comes back, if it does what does that tell me? However on 2nd thought do i really want all those contaminates going into my engine. 

Nothing is constant unless your on rollers in a Temperature controlled environment and everything is equal?  Just a change in Dew point from one day to the next will change your amount and concentration.......I think it's just best to know that "HARD Deposits" from GDI are very hard and form even with the Catch Can....Catch certainly helps just make sure your flush the engine every 20K with BG-EPR and you will be in tip-top shape!

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

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On ‎3‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 1:10 AM, Cowpie said:

Also a good oil catch can placed in the PCV line from the valve cover to the intake manifold will prevent a lot of crud getting the intake and thus on the valves and help reduce buildup problems. Have used a catch can on my previous 2013 pickup and now my 2015 pickup. The amount of oil it catches virtually mirrors the amount of oil my engines "use" between oil changes.

Cliff as your a trucker I figure you might have some related info. I have a friend who is a Cummings mechanic. One of those commercial wrench's with a boom truck that says Cummings on the door.  Does Semi and Stationary. I asked him if the Cummings were direct injection.

 

"Yes, the newer ones", he replies. 

 

"Any problems with inlet valve coking"? I further inquire

 

"None I'm aware of". 

 

And your experience is? If you please. 

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Cowpie Senior Enthusiast

Cowpie

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I am not sure what he meant by "the newer ones".  My first Cummins was a N14 that I got in '93.  it was direct injection.  Thru the course of events, I picked up a different truck in '95 that also had a N14.  I took that one to 1.4 million miles without issue.  Only one injector replaced and an accessory drive seal.  Not sure how there would be anything related to intake valve coking.  

 

The coking issue seems purely related to the CCV/PCV system not having filtration to get the oil out of the crankcase gasses before getting to intake.   There was no CCV/PCV systems on diesels until 2007, just EGR since 2003.  (a few smaller diesels like the VM diesel in the Jeep Liberty and the VW diesels did have CCV/PCV systems in place prior to 2007.  Since 2007, All Cummins have had CCV (closed crankcase ventilation, same as PCV on a gasser) and they all have oil separation  units on them from the factory, similar function as aftermarket "catch cans".  Unlike the brain dead pickup OEM's, the heavy diesel engine folks figured out early on that when one routes the crankcase gasses to the intake, the junk must be filtered out first to reduce potential problems.  Cummins, Volvo/Mack, Detroit, etc all figured this out early in R&D.  You find the very same thing on the smaller Cummins in the Ram trucks. But then, that engine was developed and built by an engine maker with vast experience in the heavy diesel arena. 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

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Thanks Cliff! I haven no idea what he mean either. I asked as a result of reading the link in the first post of this thread which indicated that the issue of coking was an issue of VVL and VVT systems and the valves placement inside the combustion chamber and not due to recycle streams. I figured you would have accurate intel on this and I was correct. 

 

My gut said it was crap anyway. The writer doesn't seem to understand 'overlap' and 'cylinder scavenge' at all or the combustion cycle for that matter. I could think of no worse case for his dip into the unreal than the diesel. Diesel isn't my long suit but it is one you wear quite well. Again, thank you. 

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redwngr Senior Enthusiast

redwngr

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The new L5P (17+) dmax has a 'Venturi Jet Drain Oil Separator' system to remove oil from the crankcase ventilation and return it to the crankcase.  

 

http://gmpowertrain.com/engines/docs/GMQD16CLM70_L5P_Product PDF.pdf 

 

Somewhere I saw a diagram of how it works, but i can't seem to locate it right now. :mad:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Cowpie Senior Enthusiast

Cowpie

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15 hours ago, redwngr said:

The new L5P (17+) dmax has a 'Venturi Jet Drain Oil Separator' system to remove oil from the crankcase ventilation and return it to the crankcase.  

 

http://gmpowertrain.com/engines/docs/GMQD16CLM70_L5P_Product PDF.pdf 

 

Somewhere I saw a diagram of how it works, but i can't seem to locate it right now. :mad:

 

Well about time!   Cummins has been using CCV separator filtration on everything since 2007.   Nice to see that GM/Isuzu decided to finally join the party.  They should have realized it would be a good thing when they were in R&D for closing up the crankcase gasses.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

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Venturi Jet Drain Oil Separator

• First of its type in the new Duramax 6.6L

• Designed to ensure oil control in sustained full-load operation

• Totally sealed system that collects misted oil entrained in the blow-by gas, allowing for re-use in the engine

• Less sophisticated systems result in oil carryover into the cylinders during combustion

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

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On ‎2‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:51 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

Venturi Jet Drain Oil Separator

• First of its type in the new Duramax 6.6L

• Designed to ensure oil control in sustained full-load operation

• Totally sealed system that collects misted oil entrained in the blow-by gas, allowing for re-use in the engine

• Less sophisticated systems result in oil carryover into the cylinders during combustion

That SUSTAINED FULL LOAD wording changes things, eh?  

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