Removing Oil Filter

Cowpie · April 23, 2017

Accelerated oil changes is a relative concept, depending on who you are talking to. Some do the annual / 20,000 mile thing, others do the 5000 mile thing. To the annual folks, anything less is "accelerated". To some, anything less than the OLM is accelerated. And how much the oil actually costs factors in. Many sales on various brands throughout the year so even higher end synthetic oils can be a bargain at times, especially the sales on jugs that occur frequently. I buy all my oil by the jug at the best deal I can find and stock up.

I just advocate folks live within their comfort level than helps them sleep well at night. If that is 5000 miles, go for it. If it is the OLM, then also go for it. I take an alternative approach. Once in spring, once in fall, similar oil change methodology as I do with my other equipment. My pickup gets 5w30 in fall, 10w30 in spring. Actual miles hardly ever factor into the oil change interval.

Nanotech Environmental · April 23, 2017

Accelerated oil changes is a relative concept, depending on who you are talking to. Some do the annual / 20,000 mile thing, others do the 5000 mile thing. To the annual folks, anything less is "accelerated". To some, anything less than the OLM is accelerated. And how much the oil actually costs factors in. Many sales on various brands throughout the year so even higher end synthetic oils can be a bargain at times, especially the sales on jugs that occur frequently. I buy all my oil by the jug at the best deal I can find and stock up.

I just advocate folks live within their comfort level than helps them sleep well at night. If that is 5000 miles, go for it. If it is the OLM, then also go for it. I take an alternative approach. Once in spring, once in fall, similar oil change methodology as I do with my other equipment. My pickup gets 5w30 in fall, 10w30 in spring. Actual miles hardly ever factor into the oil change interval.

My reference to accelerated intervals is anything sooner than the factory recommended and/or OLM. Doesn't matter if it's 3k, 5 k or whatever.

The real point is showing the math behind my point, as many people fool themselves into thinking that accelerated OC intervals are cheap, when the math suggests otherwise.

Cowpie · April 23, 2017

I understand your point. I can buy 5 qt jug of 10w30 or 5w30 for $15 or less, even synthetic when on sale or rebates. Assuming a person only goes to 1/2 of OLM for their oil changes, I am finding it hard to believe that one would spend the same as a new crate engine in 200,000 miles for their oil changes. Most in these threads actually use the 5000 mile game, which is roughly 2/3 of what most OLM intervals are for most pickups. So a person would only be using 33% more oil for changes in 200,000 miles than they would following OLM. There is no way the additional oil cost would come close to equalling the cost of a new engine.

Assuming 5000 mile oil changes, in 200,000 miles that is 40 oil changes. Oil and filter can easily be below $35 for an oil change for the conscientious buyer. In 200,000 miles at 7500 miles (average OLM interval most report), that is roughly 27 oil changes. So that is a 13 oil change difference. 13 x $35 is $455. if you can find a new crate engine for $455, please... fill us all in on where we can get one! Even at $50 an oil change, the additional cost is only $650 over 200,000 miles. For many, that is 10 years which is about $65 a year additional cost.

Maybe we had different versions of math in school.

And the OLM is not always advisable. GM really screwed the pooch on the LY7 3.6L regarding OLM interval. After many engine problems for many owners, primarily timing chain issues, they had to reprogram the ECM's to cut the interval in half. From nearly 12,000 mile interval to around 6000-7000 mile interval. So the OLM thing is not always perfection, especially if the OLM uses faulty algorithmic base lines for their programming. No wonder that, since I didn't follow GM's OLM in my 2006 Cadillac CTS 3.6 but followed a roughly 5000 mile regimen, and not even their oil recommendation, that this car for us is still going quite strong with few problems and will remain a part of our household for quite some time. And that crate engine is around $5000-$6000 for a reman.

Krusty · April 25, 2017

Quick Question - if I change the oil filter only - will the oil drain out.. or is there a "stop" valve of some sort to prevent too much oil draining ?

Auto-Zone has their Mobile 1 oil change kits on sale, 5qts + filter. Bought 2 kits giving me the required 8qrts plus 2qrts to spare. And the extra filter for an early filter only change out.

Spun off the oil filter at 1,000 miles and spun on a Mobile 1 M1-212 in it's place. Lost less than half a qrt of oil - you do have to work fast - a small but steady stream of oil keeps draining from the engine.

kammi10 · May 2, 2017

Filter plus Mobil 1 at 1000 miles....lot of metal in the filter............again at 3000 miles a lot less but still some metal particles in the filter......again at 6000 filter clear of particles.......next at 10K and every 4-5 K thereafter. Never use the OLM.....use the #2 trip mileage to keep track of oil changes.

this is exactly how i did mine at first but now i go about every 6k between oil changes

Nanotech Environmental · May 3, 2017

I understand your point. I can buy 5 qt jug of 10w30 or 5w30 for $15 or less, even synthetic when on sale or rebates. Assuming a person only goes to 1/2 of OLM for their oil changes, I am finding it hard to believe that one would spend the same as a new crate engine in 200,000 miles for their oil changes. Most in these threads actually use the 5000 mile game, which is roughly 2/3 of what most OLM intervals are for most pickups. So a person would only be using 33% more oil for changes in 200,000 miles than they would following OLM. There is no way the additional oil cost would come close to equalling the cost of a new engine.

Assuming 5000 mile oil changes, in 200,000 miles that is 40 oil changes. Oil and filter can easily be below $35 for an oil change for the conscientious buyer. In 200,000 miles at 7500 miles (average OLM interval most report), that is roughly 27 oil changes. So that is a 13 oil change difference. 13 x $35 is $455. if you can find a new crate engine for $455, please... fill us all in on where we can get one! Even at $50 an oil change, the additional cost is only $650 over 200,000 miles. For many, that is 10 years which is about $65 a year additional cost.

Maybe we had different versions of math in school.

And the OLM is not always advisable. GM really screwed the pooch on the LY7 3.6L regarding OLM interval. After many engine problems for many owners, primarily timing chain issues, they had to reprogram the ECM's to cut the interval in half. From nearly 12,000 mile interval to around 6000-7000 mile interval. So the OLM thing is not always perfection, especially if the OLM uses faulty algorithmic base lines for their programming. No wonder that, since I didn't follow GM's OLM in my 2006 Cadillac CTS 3.6 but followed a roughly 5000 mile regimen, and not even their oil recommendation, that this car for us is still going quite strong with few problems and will remain a part of our household for quite some time. And that crate engine is around $5000-$6000 for a reman.

Here's the actual math for a modern LS v8, which is what these pickup use. The reasonable expected life of these engines is ~300k miles BTW. You're cherry picking data and facts again.(please stop doing that) This is math that was done in response to a 3k mile OC guy on a thread last year.

Pay close attention to the last paragraph;

All these modern GM v8 engines have a realistic life expected span of at least 300 k miles when used normally. That's 100 oil changes for you high frequency guys. At $40 a pop for good full synthetic, that's $4000 in oil changes. Probably a lot more for you guys paying expensive dealers to do it for you; maybe as much as $6000, or more over the 300k life of the vehicle. This doesn't include all the extra personal time you have to invest in this.

Say an hour per change - 100 hours @ how much per hour do, or did you earn?

Now compare that to the vehicle done every 8000 miles;

Total oil changes 37.5

Total cost at $40 each is $1500, or $2250 @ $60 plus only 37.5 hours of your personal time.

The 3000 mile guy has now overspent between $2500 and $3750. Plus 62.5 hours of personal time @ ?$/Hr. That's a replacement engine right there.

Jus' sayin. The math doesn't lie.

To those who might argue that they never keep a vehicle that long, it doesn't matter. The math rolls over into every vehicle you own & keeps adding up. Over a lifetime of driving, many folks are probably spending as much as $10,000 or $15,000 on un necessary oil changes. Great for the company's that facilitate that, but no benefit to the consumer.

Cowpie · May 3, 2017

But few owners ever take their vehicles to 300K miles before dumping them, and the "reasonable life expectancy" hardly jives with reality. Please provide actual industry data show the percentage of autos/pickups that actually make it to 300K miles without major engine repair. Commercial heavy truck engine OEM's will provide numbers like B10 life and such, which means that only 10% of their engines will require a major repair before a certain interval in mileage or hours is reached. I have never seen such a proclamation in any publication by the auto/pickup OEM's. You grabbed your "realistic life expectancy" out of the ether. Not quite fair for a debate scenario.

And few still adhere to 3000 mile oil changes. Just based on gleanings from various forums, the average seems to mirror more closely to 5000 miles. That also jives with much of the guidance that is found around the quick lube industry and on the internet. Hardly anyone except maybe Jiffy Lube recommends a 3000 mile oil change anymore. The dealers sure aren't nor do many independent shops. In other words, the 5000 mile number I used in my countering your assertion. And even if one is doing 3000 mile oil changes, that type of individual is usually not concerning themselves with a high quality synthetic oil. And many OLM's will not go to 8000 miles, so you are saying that anyone is foolish for not going that long? Well, the only realistic way to extend those drains is to back them up with frequent oil samples to confirm taking the oil that long in ones engine is viable.

So, $40 for synthetic oil. $10 or more for a synthetic media filter. And $25 for a UOA. $75 times the 37 oil changes you mention doing at 8000 miles. $2775 total. Now, 5000 miles, syn blend oil, maybe $30 for 6 qts, probably lower on sale. $7-$8 for a cellulosic media filter. $37 for an oil change. 60 oil changes, $2220. Even if we forget the UOA in the long term interval, the total cost still is $1850. So one will spend $400 more over 300,000 miles for more frequent oil changes. lets say they put 20,000 miles a year on their vehicle. So they have the vehicle for 15 years and outlay a whopping extra $27 a year because they change their oil more often.

Who really cares anyway? Are you paying for other's oil changes? I'm sure not. I could give a rip how long or short anyone tekes their oil changes. It is their dime and their comfort level. There is no waste. Used oil is recycled, re-refined, burned in shop heaters, or whatever so it is not wasted. Evidently the owner doesn't think anything is a waste or they wouldn't pay out what they do for what they do. And the additional cost to do more frequent oil changes, costing no more per year than it does to go out to eat one time in that year, hardly a waste. More people blow several times the amount of money they might spend on more frequent oil changes on frivolous stuff for their vehicles that doesn't help them one bit.

And cost of personal time? Are you serious? I never wax my vehicles. How many others do? I could argue that is a waste of time if I wanted to do like you are doing. But I could care less if folks want to spend an afternoon waxing their ride. I do complete inspections under my vehicles every 5000 miles, including greasing. My vehicles have to travel a minimum 2 miles of gravel roads any time they leave the garage. My pickup is a farm/ranch use pickup. I like to check the underside frequently. Now, I can just drop the oil and change the filter at the same time. While it is draining, check the underside and grease the pickup. So the argument about cost of personal time is moot.

Oh.... and that gravel road, farm/ranch thing? Last I looked, that qualifies as severe service according to the manual. So going extended on things is not advisable even by the OEM or even the boutique synthetic oil blenders like Amsoil.

Nanotech Environmental · May 3, 2017

But few owners ever take their vehicles to 300K miles before dumping them, and the "reasonable life expectancy" hardly jives with reality. Please provide actual industry data show the percentage of autos/pickups that actually make it to 300K miles without major engine repair. Commercial heavy truck engine OEM's will provide numbers like B10 life and such, which means that only 10% of their engines will require a major repair before a certain interval in mileage or hours is reached. I have never seen such a proclamation in any publication by the auto/pickup OEM's. You grabbed your "realistic life expectancy" out of the ether. Not quite fair for a debate scenario.

And few still adhere to 3000 mile oil changes. Just based on gleanings from various forums, the average seems to mirror more closely to 5000 miles. That also jives with much of the guidance that is found around the quick lube industry and on the internet. Hardly anyone except maybe Jiffy Lube recommends a 3000 mile oil change anymore. The dealers sure aren't nor do many independent shops. In other words, the 5000 mile number I used in my countering your assertion. And even if one is doing 3000 mile oil changes, that type of individual is usually not concerning themselves with a high quality synthetic oil. And many OLM's will not go to 8000 miles, so you are saying that anyone is foolish for not going that long? Well, the only realistic way to extend those drains is to back them up with frequent oil samples to confirm taking the oil that long in ones engine is viable.

So, $40 for synthetic oil. $10 or more for a synthetic media filter. And $25 for a UOA. $75 times the 37 oil changes you mention doing at 8000 miles. $2775 total. Now, 5000 miles, syn blend oil, maybe $30 for 6 qts, probably lower on sale. $7-$8 for a cellulosic media filter. $37 for an oil change. 60 oil changes, $2220. Even if we forget the UOA in the long term interval, the total cost still is $1850. So one will spend $400 more over 300,000 miles for more frequent oil changes. lets say they put 20,000 miles a year on their vehicle. So they have the vehicle for 15 years and outlay a whopping extra $27 a year because they change their oil more often.

Who really cares anyway? Are you paying for other's oil changes? I'm sure not. I could give a rip how long or short anyone tekes their oil changes. It is their dime and their comfort level. There is no waste. Used oil is recycled, re-refined, burned in shop heaters, or whatever so it is not wasted. Evidently the owner doesn't think anything is a waste or they wouldn't pay out what they do for what they do. And the additional cost to do more frequent oil changes, costing no more per year than it does to go out to eat one time in that year, hardly a waste. More people blow several times the amount of money they might spend on more frequent oil changes on frivolous stuff for their vehicles that doesn't help them one bit.

And cost of personal time? Are you serious? I never wax my vehicles. How many others do? I could argue that is a waste of time if I wanted to do like you are doing. But I could care less if folks want to spend an afternoon waxing their ride. I do complete inspections under my vehicles every 5000 miles, including greasing. My vehicles have to travel a minimum 2 miles of gravel roads any time they leave the garage. My pickup is a farm/ranch use pickup. I like to check the underside frequently. Now, I can just drop the oil and change the filter at the same time. While it is draining, check the underside and grease the pickup. So the argument about cost of personal time is moot.

Oh.... and that gravel road, farm/ranch thing? Last I looked, that qualifies as severe service according to the manual. So going extended on things is not advisable even by the OEM or even the boutique synthetic oil blenders like Amsoil.

You're cherry picking facts & data again, even more blatantly this time.

If you knew even a smidgen of what you think you do about these trucks, you'd know how many are making it to 300k. (however, that doesn't even matter, as the overall point was about driving career and not vehicle lifespan.)

You also didn't read or comprehend the last paragraph in my last post, which I specifically mentioned you should pay close attention to.

My OLM regularly goes past 8000 miles & has gone as high as 10k miles. That's on an 06. Newer ones have higher recommended change intervals than mine, as they have higher capacity sumps.

If you don't care what others are doing,(as you claim) then why do you even bother to post your diatribes in this thread, or any other ones about oil?

Cowpie · May 3, 2017

You did the same. The 300,000 mile thing you say is realistic life expectancy is an example. No data to back that up.

Krusty · May 3, 2017

There is far more money wasted at Starbucks, liquor and tobacco stores than on frequent oil changes......... Not to mention aftermarket wheels, lifts, loud exhaust and you name it we spend on our rigs "unnecessarily".......

mookdoc6 · May 3, 2017

I go 10K on Oil Changes....I am gonna spend over 1500.00 on oil and filters for 200k or my intended life.......That is money just blown out my arse! Now the guy on 5k will be 3000.00 on just oil and filters @ 200k? No thanks complete waste of money!

GM also extended the OCI to 7500 to keep the associated maintenance costs down on their vehicles they sell to consumers......So yeah, watch out for that guy who claims, "oil changes are cheap insurance"

sdeeter19555 · May 3, 2017

You're cherry picking facts & data again, even more blatantly this time.

If you knew even a smidgen of what you think you do about these trucks, you'd know how many are making it to 300k. (however, that doesn't even matter, as the overall point was about driving career and not vehicle lifespan.)

You also didn't read or comprehend the last paragraph in my last post, which I specifically mentioned you should pay close attention to.

My OLM regularly goes past 8000 miles & has gone as high as 10k miles. That's on an 06. Newer ones have higher recommended change intervals than mine, as they have higher capacity sumps.

If you don't care what others are doing,(as you claim) then why do you even bother to post your diatribes in this thread, or any other ones about oil?

I've had three GM with OLMs now, the highest mileage out n of any of them was 6500...nowhere near 8000 to 10k miles.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

mookdoc6 · May 3, 2017

They changed the program to basically go to zero percent @ 1yr or 7500 miles now.....Except the Volt which can go 2years because it might never accumulate the 7500 miles in those 2years and it's programmed to run at intervals anyways to lubricate/move the oil through the system.......

Nanotech Environmental · May 3, 2017

I've had three GM with OLMs now, the highest mileage out n of any of them was 6500...nowhere near 8000 to 10k miles.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G900A using Tapatalk

It depends how you're driving them.

Nanotech Environmental · May 3, 2017

You did the same. The 300,000 mile thing you say is realistic life expectancy is an example. No data to back that up.

Except, if you go thru the 'how many miles' threads on here and on other GM truck forums, you'll find oodles of LS engines with over 300k miles on them. Oodles of them. AND even more well on their way. So yes, data. Lots of it. So, no I'm not cherry picking as you might want to believe.

Granted, you're still missing the bigger point- it's a lifetime of driving issue. It doesn't matter if you swap trucks at every 50k miles, the wasted money on excessive oil changes accumulates over ALL of them. I repeat, it accumulates over all successive vehicles.

What makes it even worse for the guy that trades often, is that he has no risk in going by the OLM, (cause he isn't keeping the vehicle anyways) yet fools himself with false logic about doing short OCI's.

What makes it even worse still is, that because there are so many of these engines out there & because they tend to last a decent amount of miles, very low mile replacements can often be had for well under 1g pretty much anywhere. The only thing holding a pricing floor under them is the incredible popularity of LS swaps.