First Handgun Purchase, Some Questions

Western96 · November 12, 2017

I'm turning 21 in a month or so and looking forwards to being able to buy a handgun. Always liked shooting them more than rifles, never been able to do it all that regularly though until now.

I'm mostly gonna put holes in paper and blow away cans with it. I'll also be taking it hiking/backpacking with me, I've had some not so fun encounters with critters in Big Bend. I might CC occasionally but not often.

So far I'm considering:

Decent 1911 (Colt, Ruger, etc)
Smith and Wesson .357, leaning towards a 586 4"
Smith and Wesson M&P

I think I'm going to go with the S&W 586. The ability to shoot .38 and .357 Mag out of the same gun seems really useful for me. I don't want something that kicks to hard for a first pistol so I don't develop bad habits, so I can practice with the .38 and carry .357 when I'm outside of civilization. I wouldn't really trust a 9mm to put down anything bigger than a coyote.

arcasey · November 13, 2017

I think you will find that the 586 will be more than enough when carried with 357. I prefer to shoot a 1911 over most any other firearm myself but you need to go to a few gun shops and put anything and everything in your hands and find what feels the best. Don't buy a gun for the name, buy it because it feels good (Hi-Point is an exception to this rule, never buy a Hi-Point). As far as concealed carry, all of those options really depends on your frame size. If you have a large frame, none of those should be hard to conceal. I'm not a large frame but I'm not a small guy either and I have trouble concealing any full size frame firearm. My advice, if you think you may want to conceal carry is get a second firearm for that purpose.

Also, 9mm ammo has come a long way these days. The ballistics have improved drastically so you shouldn't be worried about having problems putting anything down, unless of course you run into a bear or moose and then might I suggest a 44 magnum lol.

sdeeter19555 · November 13, 2017

Doesn't the 45acp have the same/similar energy downrange as a 357?

I have an M&P 45c, a Springfield XDS 3.3 in 45, and a Taurus 44c revolver. I carried my Taurus this weekend to run some rounds through it, carrying it compared to the 45c, or the even smaller XDS, is not fun. Between being much thicker and much heavier, they are not fun to carry. I have the revolver to carry hiking in blackbear country, but find myself carrying the M&P quite often. The 45c gives me an easy 31 rounds (11 loaded, plus two ten round magazines) which would be a little more difficult using speedloaders and/or strips in the revolver. Plus, I'm more proficient with the pistol than the revolver.

The 45acp is very common and easy to find, as is 9mm and 357. With the modern 9mm rounds, you can get quite impressive performance (thinking +p+ ammunition, if the firearm will allow it).

Go to a gun shop and handle a batch of them...find one that fits. One that fits in a lesser caliber is better than one that doesn't in something that you can't place shots accurately.

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Western96 · November 13, 2017

3 hours ago, arcasey said:

I think you will find that the 586 will be more than enough when carried with 357. I prefer to shoot a 1911 over most any other firearm myself but you need to go to a few gun shops and put anything and everything in your hands and find what feels the best. Don't buy a gun for the name, buy it because it feels good (Hi-Point is an exception to this rule, never buy a Hi-Point). As far as concealed carry, all of those options really depends on your frame size. If you have a large frame, none of those should be hard to conceal. I'm not a large frame but I'm not a small guy either and I have trouble concealing any full size frame firearm. My advice, if you think you may want to conceal carry is get a second firearm for that purpose.

Also, 9mm ammo has come a long way these days. The ballistics have improved drastically so you shouldn't be worried about having problems putting anything down, unless of course you run into a bear or moose and then might I suggest a 44 magnum lol.

I can't touch pistols in a gun shop yet, but I've shot quite a few rental handguns/friends' handguns and I've found that I shoot revolvers best with the 1911 a close second. I don't seem to shoot the striker fired stuff super well for some reason, I shot better with a little J-frame than a .40 M&P. I also don't really like the feel of the striker triggers too much but an M&P would save me some cash compared to my other options. Not gonna do a Glock, I hate the way they point.

You said you like 1911's, is there a big difference in them between different manufacturers? I've shot a Colt 1911 that I loved, but I got a rental one from a range once (I think it was a Springfield?) that was just terrible. The trigger pull was the worst of anything I've ever shot by a long ways, I think there must have been something wrong with it. It's kinda made me afraid of getting a lemon 1911 though.

1 hour ago, sdeeter19555 said:

Doesn't the 45acp have the same/similar energy downrange as a 357?

I have an M&P 45c, a Springfield XDS 3.3 in 45, and a Taurus 44c revolver. I carried my Taurus this weekend to run some rounds through it, carrying it compared to the 45c, or the even smaller XDS, is not fun. Between being much thicker and much heavier, they are not fun to carry. I have the revolver to carry hiking in blackbear country, but find myself carrying the M&P quite often. The 45c gives me an easy 31 rounds (11 loaded, plus two ten round magazines) which would be a little more difficult using speedloaders and/or strips in the revolver. Plus, I'm more proficient with the pistol than the revolver.

The 45acp is very common and easy to find, as is 9mm and 357. With the modern 9mm rounds, you can get quite impressive performance (thinking +p+ ammunition, if the firearm will allow it).

Go to a gun shop and handle a batch of them...find one that fits. One that fits in a lesser caliber is better than one that doesn't in something that you can't place shots accurately.

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How do you usually carry when you're hiking? Is the revolver noticeably worse than the other two for a longer carry?

I've had a black bear outside my tent in Big Bend once and we also get this one that goes through the trash cans in our backyard when I'm up at school in NH. There's moose and bears around in some of the places I hike - I know some people who have seen a moose up closer than I'd ever like to. So I think I'd do .45 but 9 is probably out.

sdeeter19555 · November 13, 2017

How do you usually carry when you're hiking? Is the revolver noticeably worse than the other two for a longer carry?

I've had a black bear outside my tent in Big Bend once and we also get this one that goes through the trash cans in our backyard when I'm up at school in NH. There's moose and bears around in some of the places I hike - I know some people who have seen a moose up closer than I'd ever like to. So I think I'd do .45 but 9 is probably out.

I have a "Chesty Puller" cross chest for hunting and it converts to a IWB pancake for concealed. I bought it from Simply Rugged Holsters...it wasn't cheap, but it allows easy carry for hiking and good deep concealment (well, as good as you can conceal a 4-inch 44mag).

The downside to the revolver is as I said before, weight mainly, thickness secondly.

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arcasey · November 13, 2017

25 minutes ago, Western96 said:

I can't touch pistols in a gun shop yet, but I've shot quite a few rental handguns/friends' handguns and I've found that I shoot revolvers best with the 1911 a close second. I don't seem to shoot the striker fired stuff super well for some reason, I shot better with a little J-frame than a .40 M&P. I also don't really like the feel of the striker triggers too much but an M&P would save me some cash compared to my other options. Not gonna do a Glock, I hate the way they point.

You said you like 1911's, is there a big difference in them between different manufacturers? I've shot a Colt 1911 that I loved, but I got a rental one from a range once (I think it was a Springfield?) that was just terrible. The trigger pull was the worst of anything I've ever shot by a long ways, I think there must have been something wrong with it. It's kinda made me afraid of getting a lemon 1911 though.

How do you usually carry when you're hiking? Is the revolver noticeably worse than the other two for a longer carry?

I've had a black bear outside my tent in Big Bend once and we also get this one that goes through the trash cans in our backyard when I'm up at school in NH. There's moose and bears around in some of the places I hike - I know some people who have seen a moose up closer than I'd ever like to. So I think I'd do .45 but 9 is probably out.

There will definitely be some differences between the 1911's. You said you shot a Colt and liked it. You had one of the better mass produced 1911's in Colt. They have been known for a long time for their 1911's and their revolvers. I can't really comment on the springfield quality but I'm sure there are different tiers and maybe the gun you shot was of a lower tier. Another 1911 manufacturer that is kind of a "budget" gun to me is Rock Island. I've heard some good but mostly bad things about them.

As far as shooting striker fired guns, they take a little getting used to. There are a lot of little things to do for practice at the range that make a big difference. Glocks are great guns, but they aren't for everybody. I love mine but some people just don't like them. If you like the way a 1911 points that probably explains why you don't like the Glock. The grip angle of the Glocks is slightly different than most manufacturers. The Smith and Wesson M&P line has a grip angle that closely mimics the 1911. I personally like revolvers, but I don't like to shoot them because I feel like the grip is so much different than the 1911 style and the 1911 just feels natural to me. That's why I said put a bunch in your hand and see what feels good but I understand the age restrictions will be an issue for a little while longer.

dennis good · November 13, 2017

You better not let the Rangers catch you with it.And you better not shoot anything.

sdeeter19555 · November 13, 2017

You better not let the Rangers catch you with it.And you better not shoot anything.

?

Perfectly legal in PA...and in national parks (just not allowed in government buildings).

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2017_whitez71 · November 14, 2017

Take a look at Sig Sauer. They are very nice. As far as caliber I would suggest a 45

Western96 · November 14, 2017

A P220 or something like that sounds like a gun I'd like but unfortunately they're a bit out of my price range. $700-800 is more what I'm looking for and a Sig is probably going to run more than that I'd guess. But 45 or 357 is definitely the caliber I'm going with at this point.

swathdiver · November 14, 2017

Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911A1, They're made in the USA such as the PB9151LP. Conversely you can go a more disciplined route and get a Smith & Wesson Combat Magnum or an old Target Masterpiece. The former shoots .357 the latter is .38 Special only. Really depends on what fits your hands well, you may like the larger framed guns.

The best of course is the 1851 Navy and it's descendant, the Colt Peacemaker. Not even a 1911 fits a man's hand more naturally and naturally points than a single action with plow handle grips. Maybe a 3-screw .41 Magnum Ruger Black Hawk would float your boat, not the 2-screw, the old, unmodified, un-lawyered 3-screw gun.

Before you buy something, get on Amazon and get a copy of Sixguns by Elmer Keith sent to your door and read it cover to cover a couple of times. Then you'll know.

Read about men and read their books from the likes of Bob Munden, Ed McGivern, The Topperweins and Bill Jordan to name a few. These guys did things with sixguns that people today deny, saying its physically impossible. Did you know there used to be 300 yard pistol shooting contests and clubs? Check youtube for Munden and McGivern and I would be remiss if Jerry Miculek wasn't mentioned, a legend in our time!

McGivern once shot 5 rounds into 3 holes from 50 feet in less than one second with a SAA. I don't think a 1911 can operate that fast.

.38 Special is one of the most accurate cartridges ever developed. A K-Frame Smith and Wesson with Target Master grips, like the Model 15 makes an excellent gun for marksmanship, real marksmanship at 25-50-75 yards, not seven yard wussy stuff. Ever watched Adam-12? They carry the Target Masterpiece (Model 15) in the early years and switched to a 4" Model 14 (Combat Masterpiece) later on.

Whatever you choose for your first sidearm, it won't be your last. One more word of advice, no matter how enticing, never ever sell or trade that first gun you purchase. There are millions of men who did and count it as one of their life's biggest regrets. Take care of it as if your just the custodian, pass it down to your children.

Enjoy!

Western96 · November 14, 2017

12 hours ago, swathdiver said:

Springfield Armory Mil-Spec 1911A1, They're made in the USA such as the PB9151LP. Conversely you can go a more disciplined route and get a Smith & Wesson Combat Magnum or an old Target Masterpiece. The former shoots .357 the latter is .38 Special only. Really depends on what fits your hands well, you may like the larger framed guns.

The best of course is the 1851 Navy and it's descendant, the Colt Peacemaker. Not even a 1911 fits a man's hand more naturally and naturally points than a single action with plow handle grips. Maybe a 3-screw .41 Magnum Ruger Black Hawk would float your boat, not the 2-screw, the old, unmodified, un-lawyered 3-screw gun.

Before you buy something, get on Amazon and get a copy of Sixguns by Elmer Keith sent to your door and read it cover to cover a couple of times. Then you'll know.

Read about men and read their books from the likes of Bob Munden, Ed McGivern, The Topperweins and Bill Jordan to name a few. These guys did things with sixguns that people today deny, saying its physically impossible. Did you know there used to be 300 yard pistol shooting contests and clubs? Check youtube for Munden and McGivern and I would be remiss if Jerry Miculek wasn't mentioned, a legend in our time!

McGivern once shot 5 rounds into 3 holes from 50 feet in less than one second with a SAA. I don't think a 1911 can operate that fast.

.38 Special is one of the most accurate cartridges ever developed. A K-Frame Smith and Wesson with Target Master grips, like the Model 15 makes an excellent gun for marksmanship, real marksmanship at 25-50-75 yards, not seven yard wussy stuff. Ever watched Adam-12? They carry the Target Masterpiece (Model 15) in the early years and switched to a 4" Model 14 (Combat Masterpiece) later on.

Whatever you choose for your first sidearm, it won't be your last. One more word of advice, no matter how enticing, never ever sell or trade that first gun you purchase. There are millions of men who did and count it as one of their life's biggest regrets. Take care of it as if your just the custodian, pass it down to your children.

Enjoy!

Thanks for the help! I agree with you about the SA revolvers, my best ever groups were with a .45 Long Colt Ruger Vaquero. Even if I shot like crap with it, that thing is a ton of fun to shoot, and some day I'll definitely be picking up a Colt SAA for the range. I think that modern revolvers have come too far beyond them though to make a SA my first handgun, they're just so much slower to load. I'm almost as accurate with a K/L-frame and they're a lot more versatile I think.

I'll definitely check out that book, I'm in need of new reading material anyways. And I've seen a video of some guy who could fire his SAA faster than a semi pistol, not to mention stuff like Bob Munden's draw.

And yeah, my first gun was a Marlin 336 lever action (yes I'm a fudd) and I don't think I'm going to get rid of it any time soon. It's from 1962 and still going strong, I'm sure it'll make it through my generation too.

Baldhills · December 24, 2017

Don’t forget to check out H&K.

jogutier · January 6, 2018

On 11/12/2017 at 12:28 PM, Western96 said:

I'm turning 21 in a month or so and looking forwards to being able to buy a handgun. Always liked shooting them more than rifles, never been able to do it all that regularly though until now.

I'm mostly gonna put holes in paper and blow away cans with it. I'll also be taking it hiking/backpacking with me, I've had some not so fun encounters with critters in Big Bend. I might CC occasionally but not often.

So far I'm considering:

Decent 1911 (Colt, Ruger, etc)

Smith and Wesson .357, leaning towards a 586 4"

Smith and Wesson M&P

I think I'm going to go with the S&W 586. The ability to shoot .38 and .357 Mag out of the same gun seems really useful for me. I don't want something that kicks to hard for a first pistol so I don't develop bad habits, so I can practice with the .38 and carry .357 when I'm outside of civilization. I wouldn't really trust a 9mm to put down anything bigger than a coyote.

Springfield 1911 two tone.

Spurshot · January 14, 2018

This thread is a bit old, but I'll put in two cents worth.

A "critter" like a black bear or a big cat, is not something I'd intentionally plan to defend against with 9mm, 40 S&W, or even 45 acp gun. 357 mag with heavy bullets for penetration is much more reliable for those two "critters". If I really worried about aggressive black bears or cats, first, I wouldn't go to that place, but if I had to, I'd have at least a 44 mag. Handguns are marginal stoppers.