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am I missing out with magnuson install

jstev4610

By jstev4610
in Engines & Drivetrain

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jstev4610 Enthusiast

jstev4610

Posted
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Great info, thanks for that.  It might not have been missing, just misdiagnosed in my head as it shifted at full throttle.  It is gone, either with the computer learning shifts or resolving itself with the half tank addition of non ethanol 91, found a place to get it close so that's what I'm putting in.  I am having pat guerra tune it, I already have hptuners for use on my grand wagoneer with a l76 6.0 swap.  Was waiting on getting my exhaust figured out, just going to go ahead and have him send an initial tune then work up the exhaust with a wideband for a follow up.  The magnuson is superquiet, I'm shocked at how quiet it is.  Had to get my studded winters removed because I'm spinning everywhere for funs.

.justin. Enthusiast

.justin.

Posted
Posted

I'd stick with the 91-92 with ethanol.  In my experience, the same octane without ethanol has a much, much greater tendency to detonate than the fuel with ethanol.  The only potential benefit of non-ethanol in your truck is 4-5% better fuel mileage.  To test for yourself, compare knock retard on fuel with ethanol and then take a log on a tank without it.

 

The transmission is in a perpetual state of learning and with a change as big as a supercharger, it will have a lot of learning to do to meet shift targets that it previously has never encountered.

jstev4610 Enthusiast

jstev4610

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I'm hunting down non ethanol fuel before pat tunes it simply because of this note in the magnuson book that came with the blower, and thought it was likely the cause of the tune feeling like garbage and the possible misfire.  Glad to confirm it's not going to be a constant search with proper tuning.  Are you going to be moving to Coeur D'Alene since that's where you list your recurring tuning meets?

 

This supercharger system requires the use of only premium gasoline fuel,. 91 octane or better. It is NOT compatible with E85, Ethanol, or Flex fuels.

.justin. Enthusiast

.justin.

Posted
Posted

Ah, I can see where you would get that.  I think they are just trying to cover their bases and ensure that all possible names for E85 are covered.  The factory fuel system isn't nearly large enough to handle full E85 operation in boost.  As long as you have the headspace in the fuel system, it's great to run a few gallons of E85 mixed in when only 91 octane is available as it is a very inexpensive octane booster.

 

On my SS, I regularly will add 5 gallons of E85 and then fill the rest of the tank with 91 octane.  On the dyno, that was worth over 50hp compared to just our crap 91 octane alone (when tuned appropriately).

 

Yes, we are relocating to the CDA area and have been making quite a few trips that way.  I'll even be in your town for a few hours next week with the family to pick up a new vehicle.  :ninja:

  • 1 month later...
Mileguru Enthusiast

Mileguru

Posted
Posted

Jstev4610, I’m wondering if we can compare notes. I have a 2017 Sierra 6.2L 8-speed with a new Magnuson TVS 1900 on it. Black Bear Performance gave me two tunes. My main question is how much different the Black Bear tune is versus the stock Magnuson tune because I’m not getting great results/performance from the Black Bear tunes.

 

Tune 1 on 91 octane California pump gas:

- Quick, short-lived ping when really getting into the throttle while coasting at 20mph or so. Same thing when smashing the pedal down while already at highway speed.

- When using the supercharger hard at city speeds, the RPMs seem to just jump up and no REAL torque is produced. This is a REAL disappointment.

- In almost every situation I have to coax the supercharger to really get it to pull. I have to hit the pedal hard, let off, and then hit it hard again. It’s as if when I smash the pedal down and don’t let up, the truck won’t downshift and won’t allow torque to be delivered. When I say “smash the pedal,” I’m not talking about WOT flooring it past the click at the bottom of the pedal, I just mean giving a huge push like 80% of what the pedal can move. I don’t want to have to absolutely floor it to the bottom of the click every time I want to engage the SC in city driving.

 

Tune 1 on a nearly 50/50 mix of 91 and 100 octane both CA pump gas:

- Ping was nearly all gone, just barely noticeable in the low speed heavy throttle tip in.

- Still did the same thing where the RPMs would shoot up with very little response to my “GIVE ME BOOST” command. Had to let off and then get back into it again.

 

Tune 2 on 91 octane California pump gas:

- Ping wise, reacts almost exactly the same as using Tune 1 with the 50/50 mix of 91 and 100, but with MUCH less power.

 

At this point, I’m quite disappointed with this purchase, and I don’t know if it’s the supercharger, the tune, or the truck itself (torque management kind of stuff)… The response when asking for the supercharger to kick in is just not there and it’s embarrassing. I really don’t want to throw good money after bad, either, chasing down a fix.

 

Speaking of a fix, here is what has been suggested so far:

1) Ping wise, Tune 1 and Tune 2 could be experiencing spark blowout. Guys on Performancetrucks.net have suggested to use a colder spark plug and/or shorten the gap on the plug. Black Bear said shortening the gap won’t help, but a colder plug might. I still need to figure out what plug to use because the two problems are the NGK plugs are not the same length as the stock plugs (but the much more expensive Brisk plugs are), and I need to figure out if I should use a projected tip or a non-projected tip.

2) Response wise, Black Bear said that maybe tuning the transmission could do the trick because it wouldn’t be lugging the engine so much when I get into heavy throttle. And yes, according to Black Bear, you can tune this 8-speed if you swap in a 2015-2016 T87 TCM, which I have.

3) Black Bear suggested dialing back the throttle response in the areas of ping. That concerns me because the truck already seems like a dog compared to what I would expect it to do. Honestly, it’s not worlds better than stock to justify the money I’ve spent on it.

4) Black Bear suggested using 5gal of E85 and 15gal 91 octane. I know Justin has said it’s fine to do with non-flex fuel trucks, but it scares me a little bit and E85 is not close enough to make it convenient to use on every fill up.

5) Could spend many hundreds more on a meth kit and then have to deal with getting and mixing methanol all the time.

 

Until just a few months ago, my last truck was a 2006 Sierra 5.3L, 4-speed, 4.10 gears with a Magnuson MP112 on it. It kicked this truck’s ass in everything other than top end speed or highway supercharging. That truck only had 295hp stock and this truck has 420hp stock. Kinda wish I had just repainted that old truck and kept it, but how could I have known?

 

So Jstev4610, hopefully you’ve read this far and can find the time to write about what you have experienced with the stock Magnuson tune so we can compare.

jstev4610 Enthusiast

jstev4610

Posted
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My experience with the maggie tune compared to what you're seeing. 

 

I had what I thought was a miss at high rpm, right before the shift point.  I think it was the tune, not the gas.  My only options are15% ethanol and non-ethanol 91.

I had to hammer it to get it to open up.  I don't know if this is because of the bypass valveing or not.  My follow up tune has kind of the same feel but much less, feels like it kicks in sooner.  I don't have to hit the pedal hard, let off, then hit it again though.  Just once, the valve opens up and it takes off.

The shifting was garbage with the maggie tune.  That seemed to be the most noticeable change.  

 

 

I'm pretty happy with mine, even with the magnuson tune.  The additional hp was definitely noticeable right away.  After getting a good tune, it's fantastic and I have to be careful not to spin the tires.

 

Things I did before getting my follow up tune:

Long tube Kooks w/catback y pipe

Carven catback

Pulley'd down to a 81mm from 87mm to get the boost back up

 

It's a beast now.  I'd investigate that bypass valve setup first, then the tune.  Don't give up, it's worth it when it's working as designed.  

 

 

jstev4610 Enthusiast

jstev4610

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I forgot to say that miss I thought I was feeling was gone with the new tune I got.  Still have to get a follow up on it but having problems getting a wideband to read into hptuners.

  • 2 months later...
Mileguru Enthusiast

Mileguru

Posted
Posted
On 5/7/2018 at 9:23 PM, jstev4610 said:

My experience with the maggie tune compared to what you're seeing. 

 

I had what I thought was a miss at high rpm, right before the shift point.  I think it was the tune, not the gas.  My only options are15% ethanol and non-ethanol 91.

I had to hammer it to get it to open up.  I don't know if this is because of the bypass valveing or not.  My follow up tune has kind of the same feel but much less, feels like it kicks in sooner.  I don't have to hit the pedal hard, let off, then hit it again though.  Just once, the valve opens up and it takes off.

The shifting was garbage with the maggie tune.  That seemed to be the most noticeable change.  

 

 

I'm pretty happy with mine, even with the magnuson tune.  The additional hp was definitely noticeable right away.  After getting a good tune, it's fantastic and I have to be careful not to spin the tires.

 

Things I did before getting my follow up tune:

Long tube Kooks w/catback y pipe

Carven catback

Pulley'd down to a 81mm from 87mm to get the boost back up

 

It's a beast now.  I'd investigate that bypass valve setup first, then the tune.  Don't give up, it's worth it when it's working as designed.  

 

 

Hilarious outcome on my end! All of the problems I was having were due to being sent a pulley that was too large. Magnuson sent me an 84mm pulley with the kit. The second I was able to get an HP Tuners data log and send it to them, they next-dayed me a 78mm pulley because my log showed that I was only averaging 2-3psi of boost and maxing out at 4.5psi when it should have been making 6psi. The new pulley now makes just shy of 6psi and is a world of difference. Now it feels like I have a supercharger again. It was driving like s&*t before and was quite embarrassing, but now it feels like my old truck did.

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