BB tune Event Experience?

[Jarrad@BBP]

We do our best to ensure there is no tune identification within our tunes. There is also the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that protects the consumer. If you needed to take the vehicle in for warranty repair and they blamed a tune, the dealership would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a tune caused the damage. Our tuner will not make any changes within the tune that has the potential to cause damage to the vehicle.

[1940ModelB]

3 hours ago, Jarrad@BBP said:

We do our best to ensure there is no tune identification within our tunes. There is also the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act that protects the consumer. If you needed to take the vehicle in for warranty repair and they blamed a tune, the dealership would have to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that a tune caused the damage. Our tuner will not make any changes within the tune that has the potential to cause damage to the vehicle.

What exactly does your first sentence mean?  Do you have a way to defeat the flash counter in the ECM?

 

Also, Magnuson-Moss only does so much.  If a dealer feels a tune was the root cause of a failure they can reject your claim outright and your recourse is a long, winding trail of litigation.  The dealer doesn't actually have to prove anything.  GM's lawyers just have to prove with a preponderance of evidence (not beyond a reasonable doubt) that the tune caused the failure.  And in front of a Jury of rando's off the street... that may only mean pointing to the ECM and stating it was modified.  9 out of 10 people cant even tell you how an engine functions, let alone the intricacies of fuel mapping, timing, and appropriate AFR in a DI'ed engine.

 

The video below does a good job laying out what Magnuson-Moss covers.  If you are serious about modifying a vehicle that is under warranty you  should take the time to watch it and understand what you are getting into.

 

 

 

[Jarrad@BBP]

Fair enough. We have experience with it as we have run into one warranty related issue years ago that was unrelated to the tune and GM was trying to steal his warranty because of it. We helped the customer during the BBB arbitration process and his repair was fully covered under warranty despite GM's earlier attempt to void it.

[1940ModelB]

1 hour ago, Jarrad@BBP said:

Fair enough. We have experience with it as we have run into one warranty related issue years ago that was unrelated to the tune and GM was trying to steal his warranty because of it. We helped the customer during the BBB arbitration process and his repair was fully covered under warranty despite GM's earlier attempt to void it.

No problem, not trying to be snarky, just looking to convey the reality of what the law does an does not cover.

 

Can you comment on my first question?

[UGAuChev17]

When is the BB tune event coming North of the border? [emoji121]️


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jarrad@BBP]

19 hours ago, 1940ModelB said:

No problem, not trying to be snarky, just looking to convey the reality of what the law does an does not cover.

 

Can you comment on my first question?

I totally understand. I don't have any details to share, that is the tuner's proprietary information. I just know we do what we can to try and ensure there is no tune identification available. 

[M1ck3y]

On ‎28‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 8:45 AM, Jarrad@BBP said:

I totally understand. I don't have any details to share, that is the tuner's proprietary information. I just know we do what we can to try and ensure there is no tune identification available. 

Does that change if you add headers, or other major modifications? Also wanted to ask. For instance with headers, your changing the flow of the exhaust, cats etc. When your tuning without wideband band o2 sensors, are you actually able to dial it in so its safe and where it supposed to be. Or is just guess work?

[RyanbabZ71]

Does that change if you add headers, or other major modifications? Also wanted to ask. For instance with headers, your changing the flow of the exhaust, cats etc. When your tuning without wideband band o2 sensors, are you actually able to dial it in so its safe and where it supposed to be. Or is just guess work?

I had Justin tune my Camaro with headers. Ran great


Ryan B.

[Jarrad@BBP]

On 4/2/2018 at 6:57 PM, M1ck3y said:

Does that change if you add headers, or other major modifications? Also wanted to ask. For instance with headers, your changing the flow of the exhaust, cats etc. When your tuning without wideband band o2 sensors, are you actually able to dial it in so its safe and where it supposed to be. Or is just guess work?

Visible modifications like headers or other major modifications will almost certainly have the dealership try to void the warranty so the tune is almost irrelevant at that point. 

 

While a wideband can be necessary on some very heavily modified vehicles, it really isn't on that vast majority of vehicles we support.  This is due to the considerable experience with all of the models and the types of data that we validate within a data-log.  All airflow (and subsequently fuel flow) changes are mathematically based on known factors which will ultimately result in fuel delivery within 2-3% of intended target.  If it results in being outside of that range, the cause is mechanical (low pressure, flow variance, etc) and would not justify tune compensation, as you wouldn't cover up a mechanical problem with a software solution.
Further, the fuel delivery target for optimal power output is very wide.  On the dyno, we have intentionally varied fuel mixtures from 11:1 to 13.5:1 on an LQ9 and saw less than 1% power difference across that range.  As long as there is sufficient fuel to provide a complete burn and not so much that the flame front is quenched, optimal power can be achieved.

[M1ck3y]

5 hours ago, Jarrad@BBP said:

Visible modifications like headers or other major modifications will almost certainly have the dealership try to void the warranty so the tune is almost irrelevant at that point. 

 

While a wideband can be necessary on some very heavily modified vehicles, it really isn't on that vast majority of vehicles we support.  This is due to the considerable experience with all of the models and the types of data that we validate within a data-log.  All airflow (and subsequently fuel flow) changes are mathematically based on known factors which will ultimately result in fuel delivery within 2-3% of intended target.  If it results in being outside of that range, the cause is mechanical (low pressure, flow variance, etc) and would not justify tune compensation, as you wouldn't cover up a mechanical problem with a software solution.
Further, the fuel delivery target for optimal power output is very wide.  On the dyno, we have intentionally varied fuel mixtures from 11:1 to 13.5:1 on an LQ9 and saw less than 1% power difference across that range.  As long as there is sufficient fuel to provide a complete burn and not so much that the flame front is quenched, optimal power can be achieved.

Thanks Jarrad, I appreciate the information.  I do have a set of headers Ill be putting on once I have a few more miles on the truck. The dealership said with warranty concerns, the deal breaker is if values are operating outside of gm spec. Said I was free to do exhaust/intake but tuning would void it in the event of a claim, and that they have no part in approving/ denying warranty repairs. Said it was GM Canada's policy to investigate claims. Which is why I wanted to know how headers might affect these values.

 

I was leaning towards getting a dyno/street tune done locally but I cant help but think black bear is the better option because of how many trucks you guys have tuned.

[Jarrad@BBP]

Gotcha. With our AutoCal option, you do have the ability to return the vehicle back to factory settings. Feel free to send us an email using our Contact Us page and we can provide more information.

 

http://www.blackbearperformance.com/contact.asp