Towing really heavy loads, what else do I need to know?

[FirstAscent]

I’m pretty sure about a week ago I said in another post I’d never tow anywhere near 16k lbs, and now here I am looking at fifth wheel toy haulers right in that range, funny how that worked out.

 

Anyways, I have a 3500 SRW Crew Cab Std bed Duramax on order so I don’t have exact numbers yet, but for the purposes of this thread we can assume numbers I pulled from the Chevy website:

 

Max Payload: 4185

Max GVWR: 12,100

Max 5th Wheel Trailering: 21,300

Max GCWR: 29,700

 

I don’t have an exact toy hauler I’m looking at but here are some numbers I’ve pulled from models for what could potentially work for me from a physical space standpoint...

 

Trailer unloaded: 14,700

Hitch weight: 2800

Trailer GVWR: 20,000

 

Given that it’s a toy hauler I would be wanting to bring a side by side and a motorcycle along as well.

 

Side by side: 1,700 lbs

Motorcycle: 440 lbs

 

There would be other gear, food, fuel, trailer water etc that I’m not accounting for that would still be within the trucks max trailering of 21,300 but it’s definitely getting up there! Just the current known values totals 16,840!

 

So, down to the real questions, from the truck perspective, should I be concerned about towing near, but still within, its max limits?

 

I think I’d still be ok payload-wise, there would be some additional forward weight with trailer water etc but the “toys” in the garage at the very rear of the trailer would offset that to be within range.

 

Is there something important I’m not considering? I’m guessing so [emoji3526]

 

Thanks as always for everyone’s help!

 

[dalek77]

Your pin weight will be 3180 and payload 3700ish.  I have a 2020 gmc 3500 cc slt.  I bought a grand design 351M and will have to closely manage my weight, but definitely doable.  Just gotta watch the pin weight and payload.  My fresh is up front, so I'll have to load the rear garage, etc.

Enjoy the truck though, it's nice.


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[FirstAscent]

Your pin weight will be 3180 and payload 3700ish.  I have a 2020 gmc 3500 cc slt.  I bought a grand design 351M and will have to closely manage my weight, but definitely doable.  Just gotta watch the pin weight and payload.  My fresh is up front, so I'll have to load the rear garage, etc.

Enjoy the truck though, it's nice.


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Thanks!! Very helpful, actually one I looked at online was the 381M, I’d need a 14-15’ garage so limits my options. Are you very happy with that the m-class build/features etc?

[dalek77]

The grand design Momentums are one of the best THs imo. I looked at the 381m, but it will be way over on gcwr. 32100 if you just add the gvwrs together and the truck is rated for 29700. I don't know if it would happen, but you could get a ticket for that even if the trailer isn't loaded up to gvwr. I heard the state police will just add the gvwrs off the stickers together. The 351M gvwrs are at 16800 + 12100 for 18900 gcwr, but still under legally.

 

In any case, our limitation is pin weight. Fresh tank is up front and adds 1300ish lbs full. Since it's up front, it almost all goes to pin weight and would be about 4k! I don't plan on dry camping so not a big deal for me. I know rear toys help lvl it out, but not 1 for 1 and we only have 300ish lbs to spare. Keep in mind, you need a hitch or get a reese goosebox like me. The goosebox is heavier though by 115 lbs than the stock rota flex pinbox. All that and the trailer battery tale away from pin weight. Gd tells me the uvwr in their trailers include the stock rota flex pin box and propane filled. I'll cat scale mine in a few weeks.

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

Dk

 

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[FirstAscent]

Thanks so much! Very helpful especially since you have basically same truck and trailer I’m looking at. I just noticed the 351M and 381M are basically identical just different length garages.

Side by side alone is 11’ in length so would just squeeeze into yours. The 349M has a 13’ garage but slightly different layout. I’ll need to find a local dealer to see them in person I guess.

Thanks for mentioning the GCWR, didn’t think about what the stickers say vs how much your actually towing, I’m sure cops would just add together as you mentioned.

I don’t think I’d ever have full fresh tanks too. I lived in a cabin in Alaska for 5 years with no running water and did just fine with my 5 gallon jugs of water haha, I used about 10-15 gallons per month but I also didn’t shower at home obviously.

Thanks for the info on the goose box as well, I’ve heard about them but haven’t dug into those details quite yet. But I’ll need to start that research soon but I definitely didn’t think about the additional weight. I really appreciate it!

[MTU Alum]

Just remember the gooseneck and fifth wheel tow ratings are on SAE standards.  This means 300 lbs for passengers, 100 lbs cargo, 100 lbs hitch, and 15% pin weight.  If you are above those numbers your max trailer could change depending if you reach GVW of truck or RGAWR of the truck.

 

The GCW comment above I don't believe is accurate.  As long as you stay within the GCW, GVW ratings of the truck you will not have any DOT problems.  

 

#iworkforGM 

[dalek77]

4 hours ago, MTU Alum said:

Just remember the gooseneck and fifth wheel tow ratings are on SAE standards.  This means 300 lbs for passengers, 100 lbs cargo, 100 lbs hitch, and 15% pin weight.  If you are above those numbers your max trailer could change depending if you reach GVW of truck or RGAWR of the truck.

 

The GCW comment above I don't believe is accurate.  As long as you stay within the GCW, GVW ratings of the truck you will not have any DOT problems.  

 

#iworkforGM 

Hey MTU, I think I'm learning something new here and want to clarify.  Are you saying if my payload capacity on the truck is 3735 based off the sticker above, it already accounts for 300 lbs passengers, 100 lbs cargo, and 100 lbs hitch already?  So in essence I don't use up my payload unless I exceed those numbers?  I.E.

 

Truck Payload Capacity is 3735

Trailer pin is 2800

2 Passengers at 300

100 lbs of cargo

100 lb hitch

 

Net Payload would be 3735-2800-0-0-0 = 935 payload leftover still?

 

Thanks!

 

Dale

[L86 All Terrain]

2 hours ago, dalek77 said:

Hey MTU, I think I'm learning something new here and want to clarify.  Are you saying if my payload capacity on the truck is 3735 based off the sticker above, it already accounts for 300 lbs passengers, 100 lbs cargo, and 100 lbs hitch already?  So in essence I don't use up my payload unless I exceed those numbers?  I.E.

 

Truck Payload Capacity is 3735

Trailer pin is 2800

2 Passengers at 300

100 lbs of cargo

100 lb hitch

 

Net Payload would be 3735-2800-0-0-0 = 935 payload leftover still?

 

Thanks!

 

Dale

No, weight of passengers and cargo, full fuel will take away from your gross allowable. 

 

OP, the gooseneck mounts on the new trucks are pretty much dead over the back axle which will reduce how much trailer weight you can transfer to the front axle compared to the K2 trucks which were roughly 4" further. Depending on how much weight you can get on the front axle you should have a fair bit of wiggle room. I don't know much about these toy haulers, but I would assume putting 2,100# of toys in the rear of the trailer behind the back axles would help reduce felt tongue weight a bit. Are they much heavier on the rear truck axle empty vs. loaded? 

 

Most scales are going to look at your axle groups and GVWR, they don't tend to dig into GCWR as if you are exceeding that, chances are you are over on one of your axle groups. I have overloaded my '99 dually by twice the GVWR (off-road of course, private road) with minimal issue, sketchy but it handled it fine. The truck will still be comfortable near its posted GVWR unless you're pulling mountain passes in snow storms. 

[dalek77]

I wanted to know my current axle weights, so I ran over to the CAT scale. PLENTY of room on rear axle and was presently surprised. 7250 GRAWR and measured with full tank and about 350 lbs of passengers.

 

This is spot on with the curb weight and what I was told of being measured with full tank of gas included.

 

Feeling good about this truck even more now. Pic isn't readable so here were the stats.

 

Front 5120, rear 3560. 8680 total

 

Dale

 

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[FirstAscent]

7 hours ago, L86 All Terrain said:

No, weight of passengers and cargo, full fuel will take away from your gross allowable. 

 

OP, the gooseneck mounts on the new trucks are pretty much dead over the back axle which will reduce how much trailer weight you can transfer to the front axle compared to the K2 trucks which were roughly 4" further. Depending on how much weight you can get on the front axle you should have a fair bit of wiggle room. I don't know much about these toy haulers, but I would assume putting 2,100# of toys in the rear of the trailer behind the back axles would help reduce felt tongue weight a bit. Are they much heavier on the rear truck axle empty vs. loaded? 

 

Most scales are going to look at your axle groups and GVWR, they don't tend to dig into GCWR as if you are exceeding that, chances are you are over on one of your axle groups. I have overloaded my '99 dually by twice the GVWR (off-road of course, private road) with minimal issue, sketchy but it handled it fine. The truck will still be comfortable near its posted GVWR unless you're pulling mountain passes in snow storms. 

The garage area for the toys is always at the very back of the trailer, the last 10-15' depending on models. I attached a general photo I grabbed for reference but you can see that all of that weight from toys in the garage is pretty much behind the rear trailer axles reducing pin weight while loaded. However, I don't know how much of an effect it has but clearly it would have some effect due to it's location. 

 

Dang, that must've been quite the load on your dually! Curious what you were pulling  

 

3 hours ago, dalek77 said:

I wanted to know my current axle weights, so I ran over to the CAT scale. PLENTY of room on rear axle and was presently surprised. 7250 GRAWR and measured with full tank and about 350 lbs of passengers.

 

This is spot on with the curb weight and what I was told of being measured with full tank of gas included.

 

Feeling good about this truck even more now. Pic isn't readable so here were the stats.

 

Front 5120, rear 3560. 8680 total

 

Dale

 

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Great to know and thanks for posting up your numbers!

[Sask Farmboy]

Hey guys, I was in the same boat with the decision about the payload & how close I will come to exceeding that. I came up with the same numbers you are talking about and it is doable if I get creative with where I store the extra cargo. I wasn't certain that I wouldn't be towing heavier trailers in the future so I opted for the dually just to be safe. 

There are some potential disadvantages of going with a dually (only comes in long box,  turning radius, physically wider, etc) but for me, it will work out great -- even will fit on my hoist.

The DRW only cost an extra $1,500 Canadian so it was a no brainer for me and my application.

Either way, DRW or SRW, we are getting awesome trucks!

Good luck guys & enjoy!

[FirstAscent]

Hey guys, I was in the same boat with the decision about the payload & how close I will come to exceeding that. I came up with the same numbers you are talking about and it is doable if I get creative with where I store the extra cargo. I wasn't certain that I wouldn't be towing heavier trailers in the future so I opted for the dually just to be safe. 
There are some potential disadvantages of going with a dually (only comes in long box,  turning radius, physically wider, etc) but for me, it will work out great -- even will fit on my hoist.
The DRW only cost an extra $1,500 Canadian so it was a no brainer for me and my application.
Either way, DRW or SRW, we are getting awesome trucks!
Good luck guys & enjoy!

Yeah completely makes sense. I know I could go dually to be on the safe side but that’s not an option for me... because I don’t want one haha, it’s just not for me.

But yes obviously the dually would solve all payload/towing problems haha

p.s. I’m jealous you have your own hoist!

[Sask Farmboy]

Yeah, I don't blame you -- the dually is a beast!

I was a mechanic for 25 years, now operate a power plant at a process plant so I do wrenching just for fun and it is so much funner with a hoist!

[L86 All Terrain]

12 hours ago, FirstAscent said:

 

 

Dang, that must've been quite the load on your dually! Curious what you were pulling  

 

 

Carrying sand for slippery winter bush roads, no trailer. Sander + Timbers on the truck = 800# + 2.5yd3 salted sand = 7500# = 8,300# payload

 

Very rough and bumpy trails through the woods. No broken springs or wheel studs. They are a lot tougher than the GVWR would suggest. But NEVER do such a thing on a licensed roadway. 

[Strick 8187]

I am no professional got tired of no real world reviews. Iam not doing the ike gauntlet anytime soon