randomly losing oil 6.2

[Grumpy Bear]

6 hours ago, drivereye said:

Just over 50000 km now

I was not monitoring the oil consumption at first, it was around 40000 when the oil light first came on and I started paying attention.

 

That is pretty quick. You don't change your own oil do you? I suppose you go by the OLM so roughly change every  12000 km or so? Dealer? Yes I'm fishing.

 

I would have loved to have seen the piston/ring assemblies from this motor.  

[drivereye]

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

That is pretty quick. You don't change your own oil do you? I suppose you go by the OLM so roughly change every  12000 km or so? Dealer? Yes I'm fishing.

 

I would have loved to have seen the piston/ring assemblies from this motor.  

first two oil changes were free at dealer

third I did.

the 4 and 5 was done by dealer to verify proper procedure for the oil consumption tests.

The oil light came on when it was well over 2 litres down, so Im sure the burning started long before 40000kms.

 

[Z45]

 

Seen article in Lubes & Greases where automakers are saying that API SN-Plus and  SP oils might deal with LSPI when new but they are wanting new testing parameters to test oil when it is aging from use to see if that protection holds up.

 

Here's a qoute from the article: 

"The letter said that published studies have documented that the potential for damage from low-speed pre-ignition increases as the engine oil ages.

He explained that the Sequence IX test for low-speed pre-ignition performance is a fresh oil test, which means that API SN Plus and SP do not confirm that the protection is retained as the oil ages in the field."

 

https://www.lubesngreases.com/lubereport-americas/4_35/automakers-request-supplement-to-sp/

 

[Grumpy Bear]

51 minutes ago, drivereye said:

first two oil changes were free at dealer

third I did.

the 4 and 5 was done by dealer to verify proper procedure for the oil consumption tests.

The oil light came on when it was well over 2 litres down, so Im sure the burning started long before 40000kms.

 

 

So 10,000 km OCI (6,200 miles). Okay, next question. This is a 6.2, right? What octane fuel do you buy? I see your at about 3400 feet (1000 meters). A score can be operational damage or it can be an assembly flaw or it can be an oil related failure. Thing is you are getting it handled under warranty but if you don't identify the cause the same behavior forces the same result. 

 

21 minutes ago, elcamino said:

 

Seen article in Lubes & Greases where automakers are saying that API SN-Plus and  SP oils might deal with LSPI when new but they are wanting new testing parameters to test oil when it is aging from use to see if that protection holds up.

 

Here's a qoute from the article: 

"The letter said that published studies have documented that the potential for damage from low-speed pre-ignition increases as the engine oil ages.

He explained that the Sequence IX test for low-speed pre-ignition performance is a fresh oil test, which means that API SN Plus and SP do not confirm that the protection is retained as the oil ages in the field."

 

https://www.lubesngreases.com/lubereport-americas/4_35/automakers-request-supplement-to-sp/

 

 

LSPI is sort of at small engine highly boosted phenomena isn't it? Any way your point is still on point. Most of these test on on virgin oil. HTHS, in example, is a one time test but if repeated that number continues to go down until it reaches the base oil viscosity's HTHS. NOT GOOD... All additives a sacrificial and I've been banging on this for some time now. 

 

Use better than they ask for and change it before they say to. 

 

https://www.oronite.com/about/news/low-speed-pre-ignition.aspx

low speed pre-ignition

shedding light on LSPI

Turbocharged, direct-injected (DI) gasoline engines are rapidly growing in use because their design provides improved fuel efficiency when compared with other gasoline engine designs. In particular, there can be significant efficiency benefits achieved when a smaller, turbocharged DI engine is used to replace a larger, conventional engine of the same power. However, the higher power density of these engines makes them prone to a phenomenon called low speed pre-ignition (LSPI). LSPI is an abnormal combustion event in which the fuel-air mixture ignites before intended, causing excessive pressures inside the engine's cylinders. In mild cases, this can cause engine noise, but when severe enough, LSPI can cause engine damage. There are several factors that contribute to LSPI, of which lubricating oil has been observed to be one. For information about the latest product specifications, which are designed to mitigate LSPI, visit ILSAC GF-6.

[Z45]

Quote

Use better than they ask for and change it before they say to. 

Yet the prevailing opinion of most is "oil is oil" and the cheapest oil just meeting the spec is perfectly fine. While GM dexos specifications play an important role in setting minimum standards, it also encourages producers to to go no farther than meeting those minimums. Few oil companies are willing to spend more time and money to create higher levels of protection when all the have to do it meet the minimum standard.  The big box store brand (on sale) might meet the minimum standards for the listed application but no one really knows where on the continuum of performance the product really lies beyond the minimum standard.  Setting standards for used oil is a step in the right direction and the oem' are starting to realize that.  

It's kind of like the old saying about what do you call the person who graduated last in their class from medical school, a Doctor right?    

 

[drivereye]

11 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

So 10,000 km OCI (6,200 miles). Okay, next question. This is a 6.2, right? What octane fuel do you buy? I see your at about 3400 feet (1000 meters). A score can be operational damage or it can be an assembly flaw or it can be an oil related failure. Thing is you are getting it handled under warranty but if you don't identify the cause the same behavior forces the same result. 

 

6.2

91 octane

only variable I could control would be changing oil sooner.

Dealer is putting truck back together instead of getting me a rental until the parts arrive (estimating 2-3 weeks). Said it would be a two day install.

[Grumpy Bear]

5 hours ago, elcamino said:

The big box store brand (on sale) might meet the minimum standards for the listed application but no one really knows where on the continuum of performance the product really lies beyond the minimum standard. 

 

Only in a handful of test, true. 100 C viscosity is a case in point. This is a spec with a minimum and a maximum and every producer/bottler gives us this number. We know exactly where on the continuum it lies. Problem is, it is the least useful of the viscosity numbers and we get but half the information. 

 

Let's lets work with what we do know.

 

1.) This motor calls for a 0W20 SAE grade oil.

2.) That SAE grade has a minimum HTHS specification of 2.6 cP. 

3.) ALL motor oils that contain VM's (viscosity modifiers) shear both temporarily and permanently. ALL VM containing oils are non Newtonian and WILL shear thin.

4.) The TEMPORARY value at 150 C is the result given in the ASTM D5481 and on the Product Data Sheet. 2.6 cP.

5.) That values below 2.6 cP increase wear and fuel usage. 

6.) That any oil that meets this 'minimum standard' for HTHS WILL shear down permanently below that required for the motors wear protection. It is literally a game of tenths of a Poise.

7.) In these above that 2.6 cP published viscosity will be 2.3, 2.4 shortly.  

 

So...what can a fella do to protect his motor? A couple of things.

 

1.) Choose a 0W20 oil whose HTHS is several tenths above the minimum. 

2.) Don't use an oil you can't find the HTHS for.

3.) Change your oil more often than the OLM tells you to. 

4.) Choose a Newtonian fluid. One without out Viscosity Modifiers period. 

5.) Use a grade higher Non-Newtonian fluid. Sometimes the same companies 5W20 will have a higher HTHS than their 0W20 but even a 0W30 has a minimum HTHS of 2.9 so that when it shears down will still be above the 2.6 cP minimum required to protect your motor.

 

Listen to this carefully. When you get a UOA who is reporting your 100 C viscosity is 'Still in Grade" ignore this unless they are also providing the 150C HTHS number showing it ALSO and MORE importantly is in grade. 

 

2 hours ago, drivereye said:

6.2

91 octane

only variable I could control would be changing oil sooner.

Dealer is putting truck back together instead of getting me a rental until the parts arrive (estimating 2-3 weeks). Said it would be a two day install.

  

You have more choices than OCI length  

 

 

 

 

Edited September 3, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

[drivereye]

Truck is finally back after a month.
seems good so far. 
here is a excerpt from the work order… if any cares. 
 

“Plugs pulled
-
all plugs are heavily carboned/contaminated. Oil residue on cylinder 4,6 plugs.
Boroscope shows light vertical scoring
on cylinder walls along with oil residue on piston edges and build up ontop of piston assemblies.
Oil residue on cylinders 1,5, 7 plugs
Contaminated plugs.
Scoped
found cylinder 1 piston has wiped out
cylinder walls. Cylinder 3,7 show similar
scoring as to even bank. At
this point in time recommend short block for vehicle due to cylinder
wall scoring”

 

Tom

[JimCost2014]

1 hour ago, drivereye said:

Truck is finally back after a month.
seems good so far. 
here is a excerpt from the work order… if any cares. 
 

“Plugs pulled
-
all plugs are heavily carboned/contaminated. Oil residue on cylinder 4,6 plugs.
Boroscope shows light vertical scoring
on cylinder walls along with oil residue on piston edges and build up ontop of piston assemblies.
Oil residue on cylinders 1,5, 7 plugs
Contaminated plugs.
Scoped
found cylinder 1 piston has wiped out
cylinder walls. Cylinder 3,7 show similar
scoring as to even bank. At
this point in time recommend short block for vehicle due to cylinder
wall scoring”

 

Tom

So, are they going to replace the engine on Tom's recommendation? 

 

Once the cylinder walls are scored, they will not improve with time.

[drivereye]

They did replace the block

[JimCost2014]

48 minutes ago, drivereye said:

They did replace the block

Got it, and recycled all of the other parts from the last engine.

 

If done correctly, should be good for a long time. Any extended warranties? 

[drivereye]

The remainder of the existing warranty is longer than the warranty they would have but on it. 
 

[JimCost2014]

41 minutes ago, drivereye said:

The remainder of the existing warranty is longer than the warranty they would have but on it. 
 

Wow, been on here for over 6 years now. Seen a lot of our members treated like crap by GM Canada, not sure why you guys can not get more from them, makes no sense.

 

Seems like in the states we can "strong arm" them into a lot more beneficial things in our favor.

 

Glad to hear they fixed it, and it is running good. Drive it like you want, still bumper to bumper left, so best time to see if it fails again.

[fljar]

Just found this thread after researching a very similar issue on my '21 Sierra 6.2L.
 

33k miles. Mostly serviced by a dealer I've trusted for 15 years. No issues until last two oil changes (first was the dealer, second was a third party). At around 15% life remaining, "oil low" warning goes on. Both times needed 2 quarts to get to proper level. No oil leaks anywhere to be found (undercarriage, driveway, garage, etc.). Theorized that they put in 6 quarts instead of 8 thinking it was a 5.3L. But two different places (in different states for what its worth)? At the dealer now for another oil change and they are going to track oil consumption as several others have stated here.

 

If any original posters see this, would love feedback on how your trucks are doing since.

[redwngr]

3 hours ago, fljar said:

Just found this thread after researching a very similar issue on my '21 Sierra 6.2L.
 

33k miles. Mostly serviced by a dealer I've trusted for 15 years. No issues until last two oil changes (first was the dealer, second was a third party). At around 15% life remaining, "oil low" warning goes on. Both times needed 2 quarts to get to proper level. No oil leaks anywhere to be found (undercarriage, driveway, garage, etc.). Theorized that they put in 6 quarts instead of 8 thinking it was a 5.3L. But two different places (in different states for what its worth)? At the dealer now for another oil change and they are going to track oil consumption as several others have stated here.

 

If any original posters see this, would love feedback on how your trucks are doing since.

2021  5.3 and 6.2 both take 8 qt, so that's not an good reason....

(2.7 and 4.3 take 6)

 

Presumably you are also going to be checking oil level yourself.

You will get the most accurate heck of the level after it has sat for several hours. Overnight is best. 

If the dealer is also wanting to check, I'd guess it will be a 'bring over every and let use check' every so many days/weeks thing.

 

 

Sitting for a few minutes (like when getting fuel) they'll know if it's excessively low, but won't get an accurate read of small changes. 

 

 

Not long ago I had an oil level (over filled...) issue with a dealer and was very surprised at the service adviser's lack of knowledge regarding oil level checks. 

(I realize they aren't techs - but it's a pretty basic thing for someone in the vehicle service business)

Edited March 2, 2022 by redwngr