Hydrolocked TB

[Ryan S.]

3 hours ago, asilverblazer said:

Are you saying the fender liners are different or its because the TB has the factory lift?

 

A shield in front of the opening into the air box might be simple enough to craft. 

A shield may/may not be deep enough. Wondering if anyone with a 3D printer or

 

25 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

Pics below.  These T1 trucks don't draw air in from the fender like K2 and older did.  They draw air from the top of the radiator via airflow from the grille and hood area.  There is the main inlet hole on the driver's side of the radiator shield.  That path opening enters a tube that then interfaces with the air inlet of the airbox.  It is NOT a sealed fit, just two pieces of plastic that slip into each other. 

 

I have a pic from behind the wheel well area as well.  You can see the ECM is just under this and is mounted directly behind the wheel well liner.  The bottom lip of that air inlet on the airbox is only a few inches from the top of the frame rail.  

 

It's pretty clear to me how fording too fast can get water to ingest into the airbox IMO.  5mph might have saved the original motor from ingesting water.  Enough deep water flow into the wheel well, its gonna get past that liner all day long.  Its bad enough you can see dried salt spray on the bottom of the airbox and all over the ECM (what a "great" place to mount the ECM by the way...)

 

 

 

 

Disappointing design to say the least in leaving the ECU exposed like this. Wondering if there’s been some thought in manufacturing a one piece inlet tube although the rectangular bottom section of the air box makes sealing near impossible. 

[asilverblazer]

1 hour ago, newdude said:

Pics below.  These T1 trucks don't draw air in from the fender like K2 and older did.  They draw air from the top of the radiator via airflow from the grille and hood area.  There is the main inlet hole on the driver's side of the radiator shield.  That path opening enters a tube that then interfaces with the air inlet of the airbox.  It is NOT a sealed fit, just two pieces of plastic that slip into each other. 

 

I have a pic from behind the wheel well area as well.  You can see the ECM is just under this and is mounted directly behind the wheel well liner.  The bottom lip of that air inlet on the airbox is only a few inches from the top of the frame rail.  

 

It's pretty clear to me how fording too fast can get water to ingest into the airbox IMO.  5mph might have saved the original motor from ingesting water.  Enough deep water flow into the wheel well, its gonna get past that liner all day long.  Its bad enough you can see dried salt spray on the bottom of the airbox and all over the ECM (what a "great" place to mount the ECM by the way...)

 

You think water is getting in from the connection of the intake duct to air box?

 

Is the duct one piece from the air box up to the top of the radiator?

 

If the above are true, sealing the connection from the intake duct to the air box would be really easy with a rubber bulb type gasket. 

 

I'd also add one of those hood scoop cowl drains like on the HD trucks, a little rubber flap that lets water drain out but not splash in, to the bottom of the air box below the filter.

 

A 'bow wave' when fording could easily swamp the top of the radiator too, not that that type of situation is the discussion here.

 

Another thinking out loud thought... what if one was to get one of those AC condensate moisture sensors that shuts off the compressor if the condensate line is blocked off. Mount it in the air box to shut off ignition if water gets in the air intake.

Edited August 25, 2022 by asilverblazer

[Leevon]

It's a poor design, and GM won't take any responsibility.  I've been seeing these posts (and owners get roasted) for the four years these trucks have been around.  There was a video circulating a few years ago of a guy driving over a low water crossing and killing his Trail Boss.  It looked like nothing really.  Then it happened to a friend, he was just driving on a road, in a rainstorm and hit standing water.  I had him take it home, clean any and all evidence of water out of the engine bay/air cleaner and crank the engine with spark plugs out and check the cylinders with a bore scope.  He found a couple teaspoons, that's all it takes.  The dealer warrantied it for him.   

[SporkLover]

Driving through water is risky business given how the air intake is routed.  It's at the bottom of an indention on the radiator cover/shroud.  Water can easily be caught up there and just drain into the air intake tube. 

[newdude]

16 hours ago, asilverblazer said:

You think water is getting in from the connection of the intake duct to air box?

 

Is the duct one piece from the air box up to the top of the radiator?

 

If the above are true, sealing the connection from the intake duct to the air box would be really easy with a rubber bulb type gasket. 

 

A 'bow wave' when fording could easily swamp the top of the radiator too, not that that type of situation is the discussion here.

 

 

It could get through either location I suppose, at the top of the inlet in the radiator shield or via that "coupling" at the airbox inlet.  The only foam seal I saw was at the top, at the bottom of #16 in the picture below.  

 

The tube is one piece yes, from under the shield to the airbox inlet.  Obviously is removable.  

 

Here's a breakdown of the path from the illustration I could find.  This is from the V8s but all the engines use the same setup as far as air path to the airbox:

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by newdude

[asilverblazer]

I think I'd be looking at two solutions.

1. A seal at the intake tube to air box. 

2. Modify part 16...

 

A cap or shield on top of part 16 so that if water came in over the grill it wouldn't be able to dump into the intake tube. Air would only come in from the side (towards the center).

 

It looks like down in the recessed portion of part 16 water can drain out of it. Maybe its not draining fast enough. Add more drain holes or removing part 16 entirely, this would compromise the amount of air it directs through the actual radiator.

 

A dam of some sort to keep water that does accumulate in part 16 from draining down the intake tube. 

 

[richard wysong]

Man what were they thinking when they designed that? I hate to say it but it may be a candidate for aftermarket cold air intake to eliminate the possibility of ingesting H20. Another possibility would be to install some sort of baffles with a drain but as designed once the water gets to # 14 it will be ingested from looking at the diagram 

[KARNUT]

I have a little experience treading water up to my door working on ROWs for pipelines and transmission lines. Sometimes you could get caught during a flash flood. Usually a tractor would be close by if it got too deep. You would always go slow so you wouldn’t have plow over, pushing water. I must admit the diagram for air intake on a previous post looks problematic for water intake even during a downpour. I recently changed the filter in the CRV a vehicle that’s never leaves the pavement. Really dirty for 30K miles. In contrast the in cab filter the draws from the cowl was spotless. The choices for air intake leaves me scratching my head at times. 

[Ryan S.]

2 hours ago, richard wysong said:

Man what were they thinking when they designed that? I hate to say it but it may be a candidate for aftermarket cold air intake to eliminate the possibility of ingesting H20. Another possibility would be to install some sort of baffles with a drain but as designed once the water gets to # 14 it will be ingested from looking at the diagram 

Consider that the aftermarket units still use the stock lower tube from the inlet area. Some even use the stock lower air box assembly. With water below the headlight level, water is more likely to get suctioned in to the engine from the lower intake tube due to the lack of a seal. Currently I'm considering using the Stillen Cold Air Intake Scoop and one of the aftermarket cold air units where the filter is relatively higher in the air box. The Stillen unit removes the baffles and only allows air from the grill area as opposed to letting air (and possibly water) from splashing into that upper area. Plus it's somewhat sections off from the inlet so it looks like water has less of a chance of getting in there. Additionally I'd love to see if someone might take a crack at a 3D printed one piece intake tube with some type of flange where a seal could be installed to seal it to the lower portion of either the stock air box or aftermarket cold air setup. More work than I'd like to have to fix a design issue, but it's likely the only route possible.

[Citizen0135]

A rubber seal on the air duct in the marked section could potentially stop water intrusion at that connection point. It is one of the things I will be testing when I get my truck back. 

[Ryan S.]

I like the idea of the seal, however I'm a little concerned with it being reinstalled properly when the truck is serviced. I'm likely to go a slightly easier route and seal the joints together at the pipe connections with silicone and then wrap the enter set together with waterproof tape. Would also want to look into something to deflect water away from the area with he possibility that water is getting past the inner liners. Couple that with the Stillen cold air inlet and a CAI that places the filter higher near the hoodlike should take care of this permanently. 

[richard wysong]

Agree but that duct looks like the p trap under a sink. I'm guessing there's some type of drain in it but where it's before the air filter may get leaves and other debris that can block said drain. Where the intake is in  the front of the truck is where the problem lies IMO and I don't see a practical way to change that without changing every thing. I despise the after market CAIs and think they are a big waste of$ and are not as efficient as the factory system which is CAI but they may be the most practical solution for someone who may encounter high water or torrential rain

[richard wysong]

not a practical solution but the best place for an air intake is at the base of the windshield, Nascar race cars use this, granted they don't race in the rain but muscle cars used to have cowl induction systems. The older trucks where the intake was in the fender well never had problems unless you sunk the truck

[Ryan S.]

23 hours ago, richard wysong said:

Agree but that duct looks like the p trap under a sink. I'm guessing there's some type of drain in it but where it's before the air filter may get leaves and other debris that can block said drain. Where the intake is in  the front of the truck is where the problem lies IMO and I don't see a practical way to change that without changing every thing. I despise the after market CAIs and think they are a big waste of$ and are not as efficient as the factory system which is CAI but they may be the most practical solution for someone who may encounter high water or torrential rain

I can understand the objection to CAI and in most cases I would agree they aren't that much better than the stock intake. The current system is not really a cold air system as the air has to travel up the hot radiator and then through the baffles to the inlet tube. In my opinion Stillen did some great work in acknowledging that the factory design is good, but simply needed some changes to get the coldest air possible to the intake. From what I see, it looks to be the best way to isolate the front inlet area. I do think the piping is where my water got in looking at it further today, the tubes are not solidly placed and I can see how the suction effect can cause water to get ingested easier than I should expect it to. Looking at the piping today I can't say there is a P trap style shape to the piping, as it looks more L shaped instead. Thinking if i can get the lower box out and pipe out I'll be able to waterproof them with tape and possibly silicone sealant. 

[richard wysong]

It's worth a try. I was thinking maybe a baffle with a drain to separate the water from the air stream but that would oniy work if the tubes not submerged. How are you going to test the sealed ducts? There had to be a large amount of water in the tube to flood the air box and get thru the airfilter, Not sure if there is still a drain in the airfilter box. Keep us posted with your results please