All wheel alignment results- interpretation assistance

bamafan76 · October 20, 2023

Last weekend I changed the front and rear struts/shocks as well as the sway bar links and figured I’d take it in for an all-wheel alignment. I’m not as familiar with interpreting the alignment report and figured I’d come here to see what others think, good, bad, indifferent. image2023-10-20-100306.pdf

swathdiver · October 21, 2023

I would not be happy with that alignment. Too much caster in my opinion. The factory spec does not call for that much, with those tires anyway. What tires are you running? A good tech will optimize the alignment based on the installed tires and how the customer drives.

Don't like your camber, might have a ball joint needing replacement on the passenger side. It's going to wear the tires.

newdude · October 21, 2023

Wow, that is a terrible printout. Definitely not a Hunter machine which prints out nice bar graphs before and after.

I'd agree with swathidver, needs to go back for re-alignment or to a shop that can do it better. However, before doing so, unless they somehow put that much camber in your right front, I'd be checking the front end out for loose ball joints.

Edited October 21, 2023 by newdude

Grumpy Bear · October 21, 2023

1 hour ago, newdude said:

Wow, that is a terrible printout. Definitely not a Hunter machine which prints out nice bar graphs before and after.

I'd agree with swathidver, needs to go back for re-alignment or to a shop that can do it better. However, before doing so, unless they somehow put that much camber in your right front, I'd be checking the front end out for loose ball joints.

I'd be asking :wtf: !! They literally didn't do a thing but take your money.

Edited October 21, 2023 by Grumpy Bear

bamafan76 · October 22, 2023

21 hours ago, swathdiver said:

I would not be happy with that alignment. Too much caster in my opinion. The factory spec does not call for that much, with those tires anyway. What tires are you running? A good tech will optimize the alignment based on the installed tires and how the customer drives.

Don't like your camber, might have a ball joint needing replacement on the passenger side. It's going to wear the tires.

im not all that familiar with checking ball joints. How are you able to determine the passenger side camber concern, is it the -.10 and -.66 final numbers? I bought the truck used in May, it only has 77k miles on it one owner. The tires are the stock 17”, and I’ve not noticed any wear on them. I also don’t feel any shake/vibration when driving.

The alignment was done at NTB, not sure if that helps. I also noticed that the paperwork says Crew Cab, I have an extended cab and standard bed.

Edited October 22, 2023 by bamafan76

Grumpy Bear · October 22, 2023

There isn't a value for the right camber initial angle thus no determination about it can be made at all about the ball joints health. The rest are insignificant changes.

What you received is an "in spec" alignment but not an ON-SPEC alignment. These are from my truck. I chose to have dialed in a bit less caster but the camber and toe and about perfect CENTER SPEC.

Looks like they adjusted the toe and that alone. Any changes to the other measurements are the result of that change they are so small. Can't pick up one end of stick sort of thing. They did the bare minimum and that poorly. But sir, you don't know what you don't know. Now you do.

swathdiver · October 22, 2023

11 hours ago, bamafan76 said:

im not all that familiar with checking ball joints. How are you able to determine the passenger side camber concern, is it the -.10 and -.66 final numbers? I bought the truck used in May, it only has 77k miles on it one owner. The tires are the stock 17”, and I’ve not noticed any wear on them. I also don’t feel any shake/vibration when driving.

The alignment was done at NTB, not sure if that helps. I also noticed that the paperwork says Crew Cab, I have an extended cab and standard bed.

Yes, the number is high in my opinion and may be a sign of a bad ball joint. If you put a dial indicator on it and measure for movement, any more than 1/2 a millimeter is out of spec.

One can jounce the bumpers and get the numbers to change some and then print off a report and pull on the next car without doing anything. I learned from Grumpy to insist that they set it to specific numbers and not just in the green.

bamafan76 · October 22, 2023

11 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

There isn't a value for the right camber initial angle thus no determination about it can be made at all about the ball joints health. The rest are insignificant changes.

What you received is an "in spec" alignment but not an ON-SPEC alignment. These are from my truck. I chose to have dialed in a bit less caster but the camber and toe and about perfect CENTER SPEC.

Looks like they adjusted the toe and that alone. Any changes to the other measurements are the result of that change they are so small. Can't pick up one end of stick sort of thing. They did the bare minimum and that poorly. But sir, you don't know what you don't know. Now you do.

Thanks for the information. Would a shop offer a refund if not satisfied with an alignment? If they didn’t do much to begin with, I’d be reluctant to let them try again. It’s my first time using NTB, Firestone was my other option, or Goodyear.

Grumpy Bear · October 22, 2023

8 hours ago, bamafan76 said:

Thanks for the information. Would a shop offer a refund if not satisfied with an alignment? If they didn’t do much to begin with, I’d be reluctant to let them try again. It’s my first time using NTB, Firestone was my other option, or Goodyear.

You have to have the conversation beforehand and set an expectation. What they gave you is 'in spec' . It's awful but in spec. I doubt a refund would be given. Finding the right guy is more important than the right shop or even the right equipment and brother. it's hard to find a great alignment guy. Sorry I don't have better news.

bamafan76 · October 23, 2023

2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

You have to have the conversation beforehand and set an expectation. What they gave you is 'in spec' . It's awful but in spec. I doubt a refund would be given. Finding the right guy is more important than the right shop or even the right equipment and brother. it's hard to find a great alignment guy. Sorry I don't have better news.

I appreciate the news as disappointing it is. It’s a hard pill to swallow but I’ll just choose not to bring my business there again. The silver lining is learning a ball joint replacement may be in my future (any brand suggestions would be appreciated!), and then I’ll try and find somewhere else to get an alignment. Are there specific measurements I can ask for? I can provide more details on my truck if needed to obtain that information.

Another question, is an all wheel alignment necessary or just a front end? I do have a 2wd if that helps.

Thanks again everyone!

Edited October 23, 2023 by bamafan76

swathdiver · October 23, 2023

19 hours ago, bamafan76 said:

I appreciate the news as disappointing it is. It’s a hard pill to swallow but I’ll just choose not to bring my business there again. The silver lining is learning a ball joint replacement may be in my future (any brand suggestions would be appreciated!), and then I’ll try and find somewhere else to get an alignment. Are there specific measurements I can ask for? I can provide more details on my truck if needed to obtain that information.

Another question, is an all wheel alignment necessary or just a front end? I do have a 2wd if that helps.

Thanks again everyone!

A good alignment tech, at your local dealership or custom truck shop, will ask you how you drive your car, do you like to hit the on-ramps at 40 mph, etc. and take into consideration the kind of tires on your truck. Telling them you drive off-road a lot helps too. Before they even start, they will check your tie rods and ball joints to see if they are within spec and if not, will not do the alignment until those are corrected.

Use GM OE only for longest life and durability. The uppers are not rebuildable. Even though the lowers are, might as well get new complete lower arms with new bushings as well. There's a reason why they cost more than twice as much as the Moog CK Series or ACDelco Gold/Professional.

bamafan76 · October 23, 2023

1 hour ago, swathdiver said:

A good alignment tech, at your local dealership or custom truck shop, will ask you how you drive your car, do you like to hit the on-ramps at 40 mph, etc. and take into consideration the kind of tires on your truck. Telling them you drive off-road a lot helps too. Before they even start, they will check your tie rods and ball joints to see if they are within spec and if not, will not do the alignment until those are corrected.

Use GM OE only for longest life and durability. The uppers are not rebuildable. Even though the lowers are, might as well get new complete lower arms with new bushings as well. There's a reason why they cost more than twice as much as the Moog CK Series or ACDelco Gold/Professional.

Can I just replace the lower ball joint instead of replacing the control arm?

swathdiver · October 23, 2023

38 minutes ago, bamafan76 said:

Can I just replace the lower ball joint instead of replacing the control arm?

Yes, but you still have old bushings that secure the arm to the frame and either need to pay someone or rent the tools to pull the old ball joint and press in the new one. Too much aggravation for me, I went with the whole arm.

One kid we know just changed the ball joint and a week later it popped out. Seems it might have been done a few too many times before!

bamafan76 · October 23, 2023

4 minutes ago, swathdiver said:

Yes, but you still have old bushings that secure the arm to the frame and either need to pay someone or rent the tools to pull the old ball joint and press in the new one. Too much aggravation for me, I went with the whole arm.

One kid we know just changed the ball joint and a week later it popped out. Seems it might have been done a few too many times before!

Makes sense. With it only having 77k miles, the carfax not showing and suspension work done when I bought it, I’d guess the ball joints have never been replaced. But, I do have the cast iron arms, can I go with the aluminum without changing the upper arms to aluminum? I looked on gm parts website and didn’t see the cast iron arm listed.

Grumpy Bear · October 24, 2023

3 hours ago, bamafan76 said:

Makes sense. With it only having 77k miles, the carfax not showing and suspension work done when I bought it, I’d guess the ball joints have never been replaced.

176K on mine with original ball joints in cast arms. Verify they are worn first.