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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted (edited)
27 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

Well one thing for sure, you can clearly see the additive companies do the bulk of R&D testing.  Granted, the larger guys like XOM and Shell have access internally to all the Infineum work being it's a jointly owned venture.  Gokhan was a good poster. 

 

A few years ago Roy Howell for Red Line was asked about these specifications.  His answer was pretty funny.  He said they make their oils for all engines old and new.  He basically shrugged off the industry specifications and has kept Red Line full SAPS for decades. 

 

You can see Amsoil Signature Series kind of hovers the middle ground somewhere between off the shelf oils and HPL and Red Line.  They lowered the sulfated ash levels of Signature Series to around 1.04.  Mobil 1, and Castrol Edge are now .7 and .8 (mid saps).

 

HPL's PCMO line have HT/HS numbers more in line with fuel economy grades.  Their 5w30's (non Euro) have HT/HS of 3.2.  No VII is a different animal.     

 

 

Shell and ExxonMobil by law have to stay arms length away from Infineum work.  The IP owned by infineum is its own. 
 

Heres a graph of aniline points for solvency. Dow is trying to sell its oil soluble PAG product but it’s a good reference. Confirming Grumpys commentary on the subject. 
IMG_8861.thumb.jpeg.67d7652ba13046e0b39f42855bd31f08.jpeg

 

 

 

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Grumpy Bear
Grumpy Bear

Give it some thought     You just saw a motor (my post above) with failed pistons/rings at nearly twice this milage on standard OEM OCI's look as good as the photo on the left whi

VicFirth
VicFirth

I'm seeing more reviews of Valvoline Restore & Protect clean extremely well.  I'm curious if the chemistry they're using makes it into other grades.  If this oil does what it is supposed to do, it

txab
txab

Ok, just double checking since you say your brain is busted sometimes. 😆  Wanted to make sure this wasn't some figment of your imagination   3 cases FTMFW!

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
20 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

Well one thing for sure, you can clearly see the additive companies do the bulk of R&D testing.  Granted, the larger guys like XOM and Shell have access internally to all the Infineum work being it's a jointly owned venture.  Gokhan was a good poster. 

 

A few years ago Roy Howell for Red Line was asked about these specifications.  His answer was pretty funny.  He said they make their oils for all engines old and new.  He basically shrugged off the industry specifications and has kept Red Line full SAPS for decades. 

 

You can see Amsoil Signature Series kind of hovers the middle ground somewhere between off the shelf oils and HPL and Red Line.  They lowered the sulfated ash levels of Signature Series to around 1.04.  Mobil 1, and Castrol Edge are now .7 and .8 (mid saps).

 

HPL's PCMO line have HT/HS numbers more in line with fuel economy grades.  Their 5w30's (non Euro) have HT/HS of 3.2.  No VII is a different animal.     

 

Not all Red Line HP oils are high SAPS. Look at the Euro line. Mid SAPS and the 5W30 is Porsche C30. 

 

Food for thought.

 

When you build an SAE 30 from a Group II or PAO, what is the HTHS/HTFS viscosity based on? A Newtonian fluid that is also the same viscosity regardless of shear rate and only dependent on temperature. 

 

How about when you build a 5W30 on a Group III/III+ on a 2 to 4 cSt base? HTHS/HTFS is based on the POLYMER which dies under shear. Especially above the HTHS shear rate. 

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, customboss said:

Shell and ExxonMobil by law have to stay arms length away from Infineum work.  The IP owned by infineum is its own. 
 

Heres a graph of aniline points for solvency. Dow is trying to sell its oil soluble PAG product but it’s a good reference. Confirming Grumpys commentary on the subject. 
IMG_8861.thumb.jpeg.67d7652ba13046e0b39f42855bd31f08.jpeg

 

 

 

I have good reason to believe AMSOIL is using OSP in its formulations to get that solvency, all of them, low dose but effective. 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
5 minutes ago, customboss said:

Shell and ExxonMobil by law have to stay arms length away from Infineum work.  The IP owned by infineum is its own. 
 

Heres a graph of aniline points for solvency. Dow is trying to sell its oil soluble PAG product but it’s a good reference. Confirming Grumpys commentary on the subject. 
IMG_8861.thumb.jpeg.67d7652ba13046e0b39f42855bd31f08.jpeg

 

 

 

 

How about the Evolve Estolides? Does their 5W30 C3 oil have any solvency? I've seen information in both directions. 

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VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted
35 minutes ago, customboss said:

I have good reason to believe AMSOIL is using OSP in its formulations to get that solvency, all of them, low dose but effective. 

Interesting.  I know their virgin oxidation value is around 62 for SS, indicating the presence of a good dose of group V.  I wonder if it's OSP that's causing that?  Maybe both? 

 

 

customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
43 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

How about the Evolve Estolides? Does their 5W30 C3 oil have any solvency? I've seen information in both directions. 

I'm not sure how they are doing it.  Probably various estolide formulations that are made to be aniline.

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
19 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

Interesting.  I know their virgin oxidation value is around 62 for SS, indicating the presence of a good dose of group V.  I wonder if it's OSP that's causing that?  Maybe both? 

 

 

You won't see OSP at all in traditional testing. Hidden chemistry like many.  However KF can reveal prescence of the additive if water is isolated out. 

https://www.lube-media.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Lube-Tech090-OilSolublePolyalkyleneGlycols.pdf

 

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted

I believe there was 48,000 mile 2.7 V6 Chrysler that ran a  PAG ( water soluble) formula very like the 1940's-50's Union Carbide formulations that contained 0.1% or less of Sulf ASH, NO VI, that ran one oil change to 100,000 with no issues but some corrosion from lack of specific additives geared to the modern engines. OSP solves all those issues but its $$$$.  

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

Are we getting the point yet?

 

image.png.5884ce0dae993f25f35f289541c51c42.png

 

The above is what happens in a modern multigrade oil. HOWEVER in a No-VII oil or conventional straight weight the viscosity represented by the HTLS is the same as the HTHS and HTFS and HTUS. The trade is low temperature performance over a mineral single grade but not necessarily a naturally high VI based narrow range multigrade. Bottom line is temperature is the only modifier for a No-VII/Mineral single weight. HUGE viscosity thus WEAR advantage. 

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
58 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Not sure what you mean. You want some of it graphed or you want Cliff Notes of the PDF? :dunno:

Whatever you want to do. I’ll just keep providing raw data as I find it. 

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VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted

On the Russian Oil Club site, their UOA results generally show TBN, TAN and pH.  

 

Here are two where you can see Red Line goes acidic.  It's said due to the high POE.  

 

image.thumb.png.68d661dec0f93f5d6f09c7daaf4e17cd.png

 

image.thumb.png.94398aab8825399ecea82ecd4842445c.png

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