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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

Some photos from one of the guys on Bobs that ran HPL 34,000 miles. 

 

He posted internals of his Dodge Durango.  

 

image.thumb.png.293a804e0e06c689a4b64a9d2d3a602c.png


 

 

Does he have correlated oil analysis to show cleaning vs wear control ? Great pics. Look at chain slapping upper area of alloy removing it. 

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Grumpy Bear
Grumpy Bear

Give it some thought     You just saw a motor (my post above) with failed pistons/rings at nearly twice this milage on standard OEM OCI's look as good as the photo on the left whi

VicFirth
VicFirth

I'm seeing more reviews of Valvoline Restore & Protect clean extremely well.  I'm curious if the chemistry they're using makes it into other grades.  If this oil does what it is supposed to do, it

txab
txab

Ok, just double checking since you say your brain is busted sometimes. 😆  Wanted to make sure this wasn't some figment of your imagination   3 cases FTMFW!

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VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted

From FB group

 

This my engine at 198k using Amsoil SS, running 10-12k intervals and a bypass. First 90k, timing chain was worn, engine was sludge up burning the GM recommended Dexos approved synthetic oil. LOL

 

image.thumb.png.ca2cfc2dd11c288236102b725cc1fe9a.png

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TheRiver Enthusiast

TheRiver

Posted
Posted

I'm continually amazed by folks that post here and put less than 3-5k miles on their trucks annually!!!!

 

As if we're supposed predicate our trucks service based on your "lack of use"!!!!  All  based on your "driveway" queen!!!

 

231k.....................

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customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/members/tom-nj.13181/

 

 

Follow this guy on BITOG. He was a subscriber to my old paid online blog years ago. He worked for THE major esters company in US. Original Amsoil in 1972 that could meet almost any viscosity of normal applications of the time. 
 

When Amsoil switched to PAO for 60% of their formulations volume they became more average but now they are formulating much more outta the box. 
 

The cleanliness pix are instructive. 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, customboss said:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/members/tom-nj.13181/

 

First post of Tom's I read says "Nothing is knowable". That is not helpful. He then asks the "Robert Pirsig" "Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance" question, "What is BEST". Also, not useful. A line in Pirsig's first book asks us to define quality and then spends a few hundred pages on the topic with a conclusion few can follow, and I don't believe even he understood. Also, not useful. Tom spent less than a paragraph. 

 

He suggests that only what is fully known has any possibility of being "BEST".  A second grader knows better than that. But I admit it does sound convincing. Especially coming from a man of such depth of education and experience. 

 

This isn't just a game in the oil industry. It is universal in the business of business, commerce, politics and religion and education. 

 

I'm not flipping a bit here. The idea that withholding information, the truth, and promoting personal interest for profit in its stead is the best way to help the public is a sick and twisted idea. Especially when it is not just knowable, it is known. It is just not shared nor promoted. 

 

11 hours ago, VicFirth said:

Mobil makes a Euro FS 5w30 you can find at Walmart and other box stores.  It's a full SAPS thicker 5w30 with a HT/HS of 3.5.

 

Vic, let me ask you a question. Why do you run in circles? Where are you going? What is the goal.  

 

 

 

 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

Grumpy old Bear

A RANT

 

Instead of saying "The point of oil is to keep parts from touching other parts.", they say, "Oils job is to reduce friction." Sounds like the same thing, but is it?  Not exactly.

 

When the statement is simply friction reduction, then touching is permitted. When permitted, wear is introduced at a greater rate than not touching, no matter how low the friction can be taken and zero isn't the end point. If it were, then parts aren't touching parts. Right?

 

Maybe. AW additives are the chemical solution to that situation. A sacrificial layer of chemical substrate. 

 

Any thoughtful person is aware that no matter how viscous the oil or how much of it is supplied (bulk) there are going to be instances and conditions under which parts will touch parts. Boundary layer lubrication. These additives are there for those exact situations. They are NOT there to be the backbone of lubrication. And yet, that is where the industry is headed. 

 

Now how effective are they, these additives, at actual friction reduction? I didn't say wear reductions. That part is proven. 

 

There's a rule of thumb that says if an increase in base viscosity reduces bulk oil temperature, given the same base chemistry, then parts were touching parts. So, there is a no brainer than requires zero formal education. AW additives do not reduce friction as much as proper viscosity selection. Simple, and it is that simple. No need to complicate a hammer. 

 

These additives are sacrificial. Read that finite. When used up, the fall back is, again, viscosity and when the AW package is the first line of defense and not the support group, acceleration of wear is the result. 

 

Now if viscosity is the result of VI polymers and not the base and by nature Non-Newtonian, AND lesser amounts of AW are the mandate; in what world are we to expect low wear rates?  Oh, lets toss in some fuel dilution and break that viscosity some more. 

 

Let's add a second destructive tool to the OEM belt. This reduction in ZDDP/ZDTP is also a reduction in?............

 

They are antioxidants! And now we are lowering the chemistries that hold the acids created by a more rapid oxidation rate at bay with a lower TBN. 

 

Now a third tool in the belt of destruction. Let's INCREASE the OCI length. 

 

The ONLY counterpoint to any of this is 'better base oils' that are more oxidation resistant.  Then WHAT? What is the industry touchstone? Group I/II mineral oil blends that haven't been the mainstay in several decades. 

 

Let's complete the belt with a warranty insistence that you do as your told or suffer the consequences. :idiot:

 

Hidden chemistries my back side. Ya can't hide from wear. But you can boil the frog so slow he won't mind being found wrong a decade of two from now. 

 

I'm not anxious, I'm livid. 

 

:rant:

 

 

VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Vic, let me ask you a question. Why do you run in circles? Where are you going? What is the goal.  

 

 

Just a hobby that became a strange obsession.  Goal is maximum engine life keeping engine as cleans as possible.  I'm running Amsoil Signature Series currently which I'm very happy with at the moment.  

  • Like 3
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, VicFirth said:

 

Just a hobby that became a strange obsession.  Goal is maximum engine life keeping engine as cleans as possible.  I'm running Amsoil Signature Series currently which I'm very happy with at the moment.  

 

Ah, I see. :) And we share the obsession. Compulsively so. :crackup:

 

Which brings me to question two. Are you then seeking a replacement in the Valvoline R&P?

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VicFirth Enthusiast

VicFirth

Posted
Posted (edited)
11 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

Ah, I see. :) And we share the obsession. Compulsively so. :crackup:

 

Which brings me to question two. Are you then seeking a replacement in the Valvoline R&P?

Yeah it's a weird obsession but I guess there could be worse things to obsess about LOL.

 

Had R&P never came out I'd still be sold on the Amsoil, HPL, Red Line and Torco line with high solvency.  I still am sold on those brands.  I've been sitting back watching R&P before I attempt to try it.  Using any of the aforementioned oils would give me high solvency, but this R&P product threw a curve ball at them being it is not using the traditional method to mitigate deposits (groups V).  So at the moment I'm just curious.

 

R&P doesn't meet dexos either, but I'm told that was just because they already have 2 other lines that are and didn't want to pay the license fee.  

 

 

Edited by VicFirth
  • Like 1
customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

First post of Tom's I read says "Nothing is knowable". That is not helpful. He then asks the "Robert Pirsig" "Zen and the art of Motorcycle Maintenance" question, "What is BEST". Also, not useful. A line in Pirsig's first book asks us to define quality and then spends a few hundred pages on the topic with a conclusion few can follow, and I don't believe even he understood. Also, not useful. Tom spent less than a paragraph. 

 

He suggests that only what is fully known has any possibility of being "BEST".  A second grader knows better than that. But I admit it does sound convincing. Especially coming from a man of such depth of education and experience. 

 

This isn't just a game in the oil industry. It is universal in the business of business, commerce, politics and religion and education. 

 

I'm not flipping a bit here. The idea that withholding information, the truth, and promoting personal interest for profit in its stead is the best way to help the public is a sick and twisted idea. Especially when it is not just knowable, it is known. It is just not shared nor promoted. 

 

 

Vic, let me ask you a question. Why do you run in circles? Where are you going? What is the goal.  

 

 

 

 

Well, he’s a formulator who originally made Amsoil best in class formulations  in 1971-72.

 

 

I care more about what people DO not what philosophy drives their thinking. 

 

Your concerns with philosophy and beliefs don’t stop me from reading you. Why? Because your actions = good car care. 

  • Like 1
customboss Senior Enthusiast

customboss

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, VicFirth said:

12:25 he states Restor and Protect will help mitigate carbon buildup on intake valves.

 

 

That VALVOLINE chemist is new in last 20  years since I departed CMI RD. He’s correct Cummins PB was Don Carvers baby that Cummins capitalized on in 2000 Bankruptcy buying the brand and some secrets for $1 million. 

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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, customboss said:

Well, he’s a formulator who originally made Amsoil best in class formulations  in 1971-72.

 

 

I care more about what people DO not what philosophy drives their thinking. 

 

Your concerns with philosophy and beliefs don’t stop me from reading you. Why? Because your actions = good car care. 

 

I don't think we disagree. 😉 

Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, customboss said:

I care more about what people DO not what philosophy drives their thinking. 

 

Thinking some more about this line. I have no idea what drives Tom's thinking. Never met the fella. My comments were about a statement he made in a post about our ability to determine what is "Best" without knowing every fact and running every test. My push back was on that idea. 

 

I also push back on the idea that something new is automatically 'Best" or even better and the notion that what has worked well, very well, in the past needs to be abandoned without thought for the unknown. All I really know about, for example, R&P is what has been presented in the marketing information package and a very short experience with it in which I determined nothing concrete. 

 

Bench and field work is valuable if taken in context. But so are decades of experience with a product without ever doing a lab test. 

 

My benchmarks are a bit higher than, "I've had no oil related issues". Often meaning, I never opened it up and looked for any oil related issues. You know I have 😉. I'm just that guy. I'm the guy who buys a camshaft and "fingerprints" every parameter when a grinder refuses to give me the data I want. Then as I bought the part and did my own measurements, I publish that information. Can't be sued for my own research. :crackup:If I just am given it with an understanding, it stays in my gray vault. 

 

Anyway, about taking things in context. Mobil ran a BMW on a rooftop for some obscene amount of time then published bearing wear data. The only time it was shut down in a million miles on the rolling road was for service and samples. The context skews the data. A decided lack of no oil pressure start-ups and thermal cycling. Likely had fewer in a million miles than Joe Average has in five thousand miles. The data is useless. Impressive but useless. 

Edited by Grumpy Bear

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