To be honest ... the Ford Ecoboost 3.5 vs ...

[Homer1959]

6 hours ago, KARNUT.20 said:

There’s no 3.5 in a 3/4 ton or 6.6 in a 1/2 ton. As was mentioned earlier the 3.5 seems to pull about the same as the 6.6 in the 3/4 ton. The 6.6 has to overcome more and is tuned to do as much. The 3.5 would struggle in the 3/4 ton. Blown small engines need RPMs. A naturally aspirated larger engine is good at lower RPMs. That’s where the Apple and Orange comparison comes in.

I stand by my position that the 3.5 is half the size and delivers 95% of what the 6.6 is capable of, at least on a dyno in its standard form. I disagree with you—the 3.5 wouldn’t struggle much more, maybe just a little, but in my opinion, that engine isn’t designed to handle constant heavy-duty use like the 6.6.

 

I don’t think the 3.5 is built to endure what an HD truck can consistently go through over the long term. However, in terms of pure specs, 400 HP is 400 HP, and torque is torque—it doesn’t matter how it’s produced. Peak is peak, even if the peaks aren’t in the same range. Anyway, the 6.6 rules, my Sierra rules, the old man is happy, and in the end, we’ll just agree to disagree on a few points.  

 

[PBNB]

Not the same situation but similar. We waited for a nice new Tundra with a 3.4TT and it was okay and lots of bottom end torque. RPM's would stay low for the most part. It was like a diesel as far as power. But Toyota couldn't figure out the engine and the big recall happened. Rather than waiting years for a new engine, we looked at either a Duramax or a Cummins. After spending a few minutes at the local Ram dealership, we ran over to GM and never looked back. So far our choice to go to GM has been great. 

 

The truck is a powerhouse but not a gasser so I can't compare or offer any opinions. 

 

Our GM dealership seems to really want to service us!

[Homer1959]

8 minutes ago, PBNB said:

Not the same situation but similar. We waited for a nice new Tundra with a 3.4TT and it was okay and lots of bottom end torque. RPM's would stay low for the most part. It was like a diesel as far as power. But Toyota couldn't figure out the engine and the big recall happened. Rather than waiting years for a new engine, we looked at either a Duramax or a Cummins. After spending a few minutes at the local Ram dealership, we ran over to GM and never looked back. So far our choice to go to GM has been great. 

 

The truck is a powerhouse but not a gasser so I can't compare or offer any opinions. 

 

Our GM dealership seems to really want to service us!

May I ask you why you ran away from Ram ? Dealership attitude, the cummings, or the truck itself or .... all the above  

[PBNB]

13 hours ago, Homer1959 said:

May I ask you why you ran away from Ram ? Dealership attitude, the cummings, or the truck itself or .... all the above  

We ran into the "Bait and Switch" where they advertised a newer truck and when we got there to look at it, the salesman said that the truck doesn't exist but they use it to get people in the door and hopefully convince them to cough up another 20k. We took a look at a few trucks but they seemed rather plain. After leaving the dealership, I felt like I needed another shower!  

 

Then we came across our used 2023 with low miles and the trim we liked so we grabbed it.

 

GM also gave us the best trade in on our recalled Tundra. About 15k higher than Toyota. Our first GM and so far the experience has been good.

[Homer1959]

1 minute ago, PBNB said:

We ran into the "Bait and Switch" where they advertised a newer truck and when we got there to look at it, the salesman said that the truck doesn't exist but they use it to get people in the door and hopefully convince them to cough up another 20k. We took a look at a few trucks but they seemed rather plain. After leaving the dealership, I felt like I needed another shower!  

 

Then we came across our used 2023 with low miles and the trim we liked so we grabbed it.

 

GM also gave us the best trade in on our recalled Tundra. About 15k higher than Toyota. Our first GM and so far the experience has been good.

Ahhh the f...g dealership i hate them with  passion 

[Chuck FB]

33 minutes ago, Homer1959 said:

Ahhh the f...g dealership i hate them with  passion 

Same here, that's why I have always dreaded going into dealerships if I actually am in the market for a vehicle as I am forced to deal with what I think of as the "slime ball" side of the dealership as more often then not they are doing what they can to pull a fast one with one thing or another to squeeze as much as they can out of the customer, from what I call idiot fees such as documentation fees to pushing for extras they offer like paint protection film and ceramic coating and wheel and tire insurance, maintenance packages  ... the list goes on and on, never mind pushing for financing and on HD trucks the rate typically is not good and on used vehicles some dealerships really hammer a person on finance rates. And they always want to push one into a higher trim vehicle even if you don't want it as that is where they make more coin or that is all they have on the lot to pick from if not ordering.

[Pryme]

5 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

Same here, that's why I have always dreaded going into dealerships if I actually am in the market for a vehicle as I am forced to deal with what I think of as the "slime ball" side of the dealership as more often then not they are doing what they can to pull a fast one with one thing or another to squeeze as much as they can out of the customer, from what I call idiot fees such as documentation fees to pushing for extras they offer like paint protection film and ceramic coating and wheel and tire insurance, maintenance packages  ... the list goes on and on, never mind pushing for financing and on HD trucks the rate typically is not good and on used vehicles some dealerships really hammer a person on finance rates. And they always want to push one into a higher trim vehicle even if you don't want it as that is where they make more coin or that is all they have on the lot to pick from if not ordering.

You’re doing it wrong. I don’t even walk into a dealership without a purchase contract sent to me via email. I go in to sign paperwork and decline all additional crap in the f/i office, get the keys and have the guy “show me the features” and drive away. 

[Homer1959]

33 minutes ago, Pryme said:

You’re doing it wrong. I don’t even walk into a dealership without a purchase contract sent to me via email. I go in to sign paperwork and decline all additional crap in the f/i office, get the keys and have the guy “show me the features” and drive away. 

Its one way to do it but its not for everybody ...

[Chuck FB]

1 hour ago, Pryme said:

You’re doing it wrong. I don’t even walk into a dealership without a purchase contract sent to me via email. I go in to sign paperwork and decline all additional crap in the f/i office, get the keys and have the guy “show me the features” and drive away. 

While I gave comments on the over all theme of how it often tends to go with a fair portion of customers and to a degree it was tried with myself, I should clarify that is not how it transpired with my deal on this particular truck. Having said that, I could see everything was not going to go quite my way which did not surprise me because if the F/I guy came away with completely squat it would not have reflected well on his job security. But backing up to the beginning, I already knew which salesman I was most likely going to be dealing with due to a friend who has dealt with him more than once in the past although I had never met him personally. I called him to have a chat first and then came in one morning to see what they could do. I knew pretty much exactly what I was looking for item by item if I was to order but at the time there were still good factory rebate deals to be had on 2024 models and so I wanted to explore that first though their system that could search Canada for such a truck and of no real surprise it didn't exist. So then it became an order for a 2025 and we went through that to create the truck and he gave me the discount he was willing to do through the dealership plus other discounts that I worked out with him ( this is the fleet manager I was dealing with, not some sales person who is expecting a payday on every vehicle sold ) . I was up front with the fleet manager that I was not planning on financing through them nor more than likely purchasing any other add ons but I had no such conversation like that with the F/I guy. Before I left he had the F/I guy take an order payment as they requested that and some dealers insist on that and can't blame them for wanting something to commit a customer. He had to create the preliminary order and sent me a copy at home and there were a couple of items that had to be changed or added so a little back and forth there over email/phone and then sent me the actual order they would put through and that checked out and said order. Just over four months later it came in and so at that point GM had a factory discount and had already discussed that if there was a factory discount I would get that as well. We went for a test drive ( and yes it only had factory mileage on it ) and then I left as they did their final prep and cleaning on it and came back another day to look it over closer in their show room just to make sure no ordered options were missing as that can happen, then finalized the numbers with the salesman .... but then comes the F/I . I must have flustered him over pushing to get the doc fee taken off or something because he never said one word about PPF, ceramic coating, service plan, extended warranty etc that he fully would be expected to do to make the dealership more money, and no financing bonus either. But what he did do and I was almost expecting a slime ball move like this, is that he conveniently forgot to show and subtract the initial down payment and that figure should have been right in front of him on his computer from the beginning of the process four months back. I pointed out the error on the unsigned bill of sale and of course he had to correct that and so with that I was to my bank and back and the deal was done, went to my insurance company to promptly put insurance on it. It was a couple of days later I actually picked the truck up but I drove off with a total discount of aprox 12500.00 . I am fairly sure such a discount from the dealership would not have happened had I not been face to face and pushed for certain other discounts that were added to his initial fleet sales offer, trucks in Canada are still stupid expensive but at least I paid under MSRP as my first choice in dealer who is a GM dealer had actually slapped a cost increase on top of the MSRP on all of their HD trucks at that time in early winter so I never even walked in the door as that was such a slap in the face to customers and I wasn't about to listen to any excuses over that crap. Actually no, I lied ... I did walk into the door well after I had made the order at Chev as the GM dealer always has many nice calendars and I slipped in and grabbed one of each and out the door before a salesman would notice me LOL. 

 

[XY74]

I was always a gas engine guy, really don't like the clanky noisy and smelly old diesels.  Bought a 2020 as my first diesel and had zero issues with it in 70K miles or the 2025 I bought last fall with 14K on it now.  (knock on wood)  It's not clanky or stinky and probably much quieter while towing because it just doesn't care.  It chuggs along in 10th gear just fine towing my 9000 lb camper at whatever speed I set the cruise control at.  It's such a pleasure to tow anything with.  It's also a hot rod empty, considering it is an 8000 lb beast.  DEF has been a non issue, just another thing to pump at the truck stop every now and then.  Oh yeah, did I mention the ease of cruising into a truck lane with the camper vs squeezing in and battling the cars out front?  The only extra maintenance I have seen is a new fuel filter every 3rd oil change and it uses an extra gallon of oil at oil change time.  Fortunately, the truck never sees stop and go or short trips.  In fact I hate driving it in the city anyway, just too big.  So perhaps that has a lot to do with why I have had no issues.  Maybe I've just been lucky, but I think the emissions issues are generally overblown.    

 

Of course it can't be denied it's an extra 10 grand.   

[CRApex]

12 hours ago, XY74 said:

I was always a gas engine guy, really don't like the clanky noisy and smelly old diesels.  Bought a 2020 as my first diesel and had zero issues with it in 70K miles or the 2025 I bought last fall with 14K on it now.  (knock on wood)  It's not clanky or stinky and probably much quieter while towing because it just doesn't care.  It chuggs along in 10th gear just fine towing my 9000 lb camper at whatever speed I set the cruise control at.  It's such a pleasure to tow anything with.  It's also a hot rod empty, considering it is an 8000 lb beast.  DEF has been a non issue, just another thing to pump at the truck stop every now and then.  Oh yeah, did I mention the ease of cruising into a truck lane with the camper vs squeezing in and battling the cars out front?  The only extra maintenance I have seen is a new fuel filter every 3rd oil change and it uses an extra gallon of oil at oil change time.  Fortunately, the truck never sees stop and go or short trips.  In fact I hate driving it in the city anyway, just too big.  So perhaps that has a lot to do with why I have had no issues.  Maybe I've just been lucky, but I think the emissions issues are generally overblown.    

 

Of course it can't be denied it's an extra 10 grand.   

You nailed it.  I've had diesels for years and the only issue I've had was the DEF heater recall on my last one.  I've also used them for plowing which is a significant amount of time idling with obvious stop and go without an issue.  That said, I won't push my luck and  keep one past the 100k warranty.  The trade value will get you back a chunk of that extra 10k option price too.  Maybe we've both been lucky.

[KARNUT]

My brother with his crew’s sometimes he would have 19 going on pipelines ran all diesels. Now the only diesels they run pull small skid steer mowers. They go 100K miles sometimes in a year and half. Most all get deleted just after 100K miles. They start in the morning run all day so the crew guys could cool off or get warm.  They just become too much trouble to keep going. They run mostly gas now. I know he keeps lots of spare trucks around now. They don’t seem as reliable anymore. 

[Chuck FB]

44 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

My brother with his crew’s sometimes he would have 19 going on pipelines ran all diesels. Now the only diesels they run pull small skid steer mowers. They go 100K miles sometimes in a year and half. Most all get deleted just after 100K miles. They start in the morning run all day so the crew guys could cool off or get warm.  They just become too much trouble to keep going. They run mostly gas now. I know he keeps lots of spare trucks around now. They don’t seem as reliable anymore. 

Which brand of diesel were they running and what were the typical issues they were encountering with the trucks ( I am guessing emissions issues were high on the list as per EGR clogging up, DEF injector, DPF plugging up due to all the idling ) ? 

 

What gas trucks have they resorted to ? 

 

Here in Alberta the theme is big with diesels but I get the impression that not all companies are 100% diesel depending on what their trucks are doing, however a lot of trucks get deleted if they can be although the Duramax L5P became the issue in deleting at all and very expensive to delete. Not sure what the current picture is with Ford or Ram either as computer systems keep changing to make it more difficult but that was partly why Ford or Ram were the easy delete solutions so owner operators bought them ( and there is the whole solid front axle debate over the GM independent for toughness ) and sometimes promptly deleted their truck as downtime due to "chickenshitcrap" as that cost more than the warranty they gave up if they were making the big bucks with their truck. Cold winter time idling is the theme and diesels are far more fuel efficient when it comes to idling over a gas truck by a huge margin. But larger oilfield service fleets from what I am told tend to leave them stock and kick them down the road when the warranty is running out. Dealerships claim they won't take deleted trucks in on trade for one thing anyway although a lot of these thrashed trucks hit the Ritchie Bros sales so becomes a mute point. 

[KARNUT]

21 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

Which brand of diesel were they running and what were the typical issues they were encountering with the trucks ( I am guessing emissions issues were high on the list as per EGR clogging up, DEF injector, DPF plugging up due to all the idling ) ? 

 

What gas trucks have they resorted to ? 

 

Here in Alberta the theme is big with diesels but I get the impression that not all companies are 100% diesel depending on what their trucks are doing, however a lot of trucks get deleted if they can be although the Duramax L5P became the issue in deleting at all and very expensive to delete. Not sure what the current picture is with Ford or Ram either as computer systems keep changing to make it more difficult but that was partly why Ford or Ram were the easy delete solutions so owner operators bought them ( and there is the whole solid front axle debate over the GM independent for toughness ) and sometimes promptly deleted their truck as downtime due to "chickenshitcrap" as that cost more than the warranty they gave up if they were making the big bucks with their truck. Cold winter time idling is the theme and diesels are far more fuel efficient when it comes to idling over a gas truck by a huge margin. But larger oilfield service fleets from what I am told tend to leave them stock and kick them down the road when the warranty is running out. Dealerships claim they won't take deleted trucks in on trade for one thing anyway although a lot of these thrashed trucks hit the Ritchie Bros sales so becomes a mute point. 

I’ve been retired 12 years. My youngest brother runs our old clearing business for another owner since 1999. My second brother and I ran the equipment sales and repair business. I see my brother every other week when I visit my mother. My mother drives a 2000 F-350 7.3 wouldn’t drive anything else. My father’s truck is a 97 Ram. Ford is the predominant choice of most of the costumers and my brother’s pipeline company. His company owner runs everything through a spreadsheet. 250K miles is the minimum. Diesel was the preferred engine until emissions. They still last if you delete. It’s mostly emissions. The new player with all models is electronics. All vehicles are ate up with it. One bad ground can create headaches. No one builds a bulletproof truck anymore. The diesels my brother runs. They are useless when he’s done with them. They get used as spares then sold, not traded in. 

[KARNUT]

54 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

I’ve been retired 12 years. My youngest brother runs our old clearing business for another owner since 1999. My second brother and I ran the equipment sales and repair business. I see my brother every other week when I visit my mother. My mother drives a 2000 F-350 7.3 wouldn’t drive anything else. My father’s truck is a 97 Ram. Ford is the predominant choice of most of the costumers and my brother’s pipeline company. His company owner runs everything through a spreadsheet. 250K miles is the minimum. Diesel was the preferred engine until emissions. They still last if you delete. It’s mostly emissions. The new player with all models is electronics. All vehicles are ate up with it. One bad ground can create headaches. No one builds a bulletproof truck anymore. The diesels my brother runs. They are useless when he’s done with them. They get used as spares then sold, not traded in. 

I’m actually a Chevy guy myself for full size truck. I’ve had the other two brands. I can’t say really one is better than the other.