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0w-40 for your 6.2

Black02Silverado
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Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted

There is allot of movement in the industry currently. Not much of it is good. API SQ is another step backward and there is little we can do about it. ICE's are getting boxed out at the regulatory level. So, we, as consumers are faced with a choice to abandon ICE's OR adapt. 

 

Adapt in this case means to utilize the best of what is left in a way that best suits the needs of the engine it protects. I believe this product being offered by @Black02Silverado is most likely that product. And it may very well be the last of a class of oils being sold at a price the consumer can live with. 

 

It is not without it's compromises. I've stated before, there isn't a perfect oil. But it checks more boxes on my list that anything currently being offered. 

 

Full disclosure: 

 

I would have likely moved to this product quite some time ago IF I could have gotten assurances on KRL and ester content from AMSOIL. I take no ones word in the business for anything. Rats left in charge of the cheese and all. I would have made the move anyway IF the SS product line were still offered in a 5W40. 

 

Ester containing oils with enough ester to actually be useful are fading fast. Those in the majority that use some do so at the minimum required to register their being in testing, that is an oxidation result of just over 30 abs. AMSOIL, at my last look, is still about 60 abs. This is what I meant earlier by the last of a class of oils. 

 

My concern with the KRL was based in the fact this oil, SS 0W40, sits right at the bottom of the SAE HTHS value for the specification under the 30 cycle injector test, 3.7 cP. HPL and SPEED Diagnostics now having relieved that concern with KRL results tells me it can be trusted to stay not just in grade under the lighter parameters of the usual viscosity test but under fire.

 

I think this is a great offer. 

 

 

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newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

Just wanted to post this incase anyone is interested in AMSOIL's Signature Series 0w-40 for their 6.2. It meets/exceeds dexos R. Let me know, I offer a special for all GM-Trucks members.    

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-signature-series-0w-40-100-synthetic-motor-oil-azf/?zo=521390

 

 

 

 

 

Serious question.

 

Dexos R is a result of GM breaking up the Dexos 2 spec.  Dexos 2 was European gas and US/Euro light diesels.  Euro and US gas that were on Dexos 2 changed to Dexos R, diesels changed to Dexos D.

 

Gas Dexos 2/Dexos R came about in the US for Camaro, Corvette and Cadillac V cars in 2019 which allowed for one oil (0w40 Mobil 1 ESP, now Supercar) to be used as a street and track oil due to low SAPS content (protect the cats when romping on it).  2019 ZR1 being the only exception as they call for 5w50 for track use.  

 

So.  Wouldn't Amsoil European be the correct replacement for a Dexos 2/Dexos R US and Euro gas engine?  Or does SS fall in line with low SAPS? 

Edited by newdude
  • Like 1
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
9 minutes ago, newdude said:

 

 

 

Serious question.

 

Dexos R is a result of GM breaking up the Dexos 2 spec.  Dexos 2 was European gas and US/Euro light diesels.  Euro and US gas that were on Dexos 2 changed to Dexos R, diesels changed to Dexos D.

 

Gas Dexos 2/Dexos R came about in the US for Camaro, Corvette and Cadillac V cars in 2019 which allowed for one oil (0w40 Mobil 1 ESP, now Supercar) to be used as a street and track oil due to low SAPS content.  2019 ZR1 being the only exception as they call for 5w50 for track use.  

 

So.  Wouldn't Amsoil European be the correct replacement for a Dexos 2/Dexos R US and Euro gas engine?  Or does SS fall in line with low SAPS? 

 

AMSOIL Euro 0W40 does not carry the Dexos R recommendation nor the SN+/SP designation. (LSPI) 

AMSOIL SS 0W40 carries both.

 

SAPS levels that kill cats and O2's is more a function of how much oil the motor is consuming, not the level of ash. It took nearly 200K miles of Dizzy's 300K using oil at a clip of more than a quart in 1500 miles using a Full SAPS oil to set a P420 code. 

 

There is still no definitive test for correlation of SAPS to Cat life, although most CLE's will agree that levels like those in break in oils and motorsport oils will be harmful if used for more than than beak in miles on cat equipped vehicles, that is levels over 2000 ppm. 

 

Nick may have more to say on this... Hope he does. 

 

 

 

 

OnTheReel Senior Enthusiast

OnTheReel

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I would have made the move anyway IF the SS product line were still offered in a 5W40. 

The SS 5w50 more or less occupies the range of RL 5w40. HTHS is right there.

  • Like 1
RyanbabZ71 Senior Enthusiast

RyanbabZ71

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, newdude said:

 

 

 

Serious question.

 

Dexos R is a result of GM breaking up the Dexos 2 spec.  Dexos 2 was European gas and US/Euro light diesels.  Euro and US gas that were on Dexos 2 changed to Dexos R, diesels changed to Dexos D.

 

Gas Dexos 2/Dexos R came about in the US for Camaro, Corvette and Cadillac V cars in 2019 which allowed for one oil (0w40 Mobil 1 ESP, now Supercar) to be used as a street and track oil due to low SAPS content (protect the cats when romping on it).  2019 ZR1 being the only exception as they call for 5w50 for track use.  

 

So.  Wouldn't Amsoil European be the correct replacement for a Dexos 2/Dexos R US and Euro gas engine?  Or does SS fall in line with low SAPS? 

 

ZL1-1LE uses 15W-50 for track use and 0W-40 for "normal" driving.  

Black02Silverado Senior Enthusiast

Black02Silverado

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
41 minutes ago, RyanbabZ71 said:

 

ZL1-1LE uses 15W-50 for track use and 0W-40 for "normal" driving.  

AMSOIL has that covered as well.

 

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-dominator-15w-50-100-synthetic-racing-oil-rd50/?zo=521390

 

image.thumb.png.378348b0a00d3bccb2b69f77f6a92a98.png

But to meet dexos R then 5w-50 is a better option since it is made for street use. The racing is more for just track and I guess works since you are supposed to dump it once done playing on the twisty's. 

 

https://www.amsoil.com/p/amsoil-signature-series-5w-50-100-synthetic-motor-oil-amr/?zo=521390

 

image.thumb.png.7457db7624399b626566b0aaf963592a.png

Edited by Black02Silverado
Black02Silverado Senior Enthusiast

Black02Silverado

Posted
  • Author
Posted
2 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

AMSOIL Euro 0W40 does not carry the Dexos R recommendation nor the SN+/SP designation. (LSPI) 

AMSOIL SS 0W40 carries both.

 

SAPS levels that kill cats and O2's is more a function of how much oil the motor is consuming, not the level of ash. It took nearly 200K miles of Dizzy's 300K using oil at a clip of more than a quart in 1500 miles using a Full SAPS oil to set a P420 code. 

 

There is still no definitive test for correlation of SAPS to Cat life, although most CLE's will agree that levels like those in break in oils and motorsport oils will be harmful if used for more than than beak in miles on cat equipped vehicles, that is levels over 2000 ppm. 

 

Nick may have more to say on this... Hope he does. 

 

 

 

 

Exactly, the Euro 5w-40 (AFL) is dexos 2, the furmulation of the 0w-40 as Grumpy states takes into consideration the (LSPI) where the Euro doen't. The other 0w-40 (EFM) doesn't carry the dexos 2 spec. So if one is looking for that, they need to make sure to get the AFL code 0w-40.

  • Like 1
newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

 

17 hours ago, Black02Silverado said:

 

 

 

So.  The original 0w-40 GM went with was Mobil 1 ESP Formula, which was a Dexos 2 spec oil.  Mobil 1™ ESP Formula 0W-40

 

Mobil 1 ESP Formula 0W-40 is made with a proprietary blend of leading edge components formulated to be fully compatible with the latest Diesel Particulate Filters (DPF's) and Gasoline Catalytic Converters (CAT's). Mobil 1 ESP Formula 0W-40 has been designed to help deliver outstanding performance and protection in conjunction with potential fuel economy benefits. Key features and potential benefits include:

 

Ash, Sulfated, mass%, ASTM D874

0.8

 

 

 

Then they went to Mobil 1 Supercar Mobil 1™ Supercar 0W-40

 

Supercar 0w40 does NOT meet API SP spec.  

 

Specifications and Approvals

This product has the following approvals:

0W-40

5W-50

GM dexosR

X

X

 

This product meets or exceeds the requirements of:

0W-40

5W-50

API SP

 

X

 

Also in the description of the product:

 

Catalytic converter compatibility (only applicable for Mobil 1™ Supercar 0W-40)

 

 

That tells me, Dexos R Supercar 0w40 is in fact Mobil 1 ESP Formula Dexos 2 spec in disguise, which means Amsoil SS would be a no go. 

 

The 5w-50 Supercar meets API SP and the specs chart shows the differences.

 

 

 

 

Edited by newdude
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, newdude said:

 

That tells me, Dexos R Supercar 0w40 is in fact Mobil 1 ESP Formula Dexos 2 spec in disguise, which means Amsoil SS would be a no go. 

 

 

I'm not understanding how what Mobil is doing in disqualifying AMSOIL SS AZF 0W40. Edify me. Please. 

 

image.thumb.png.918b85ae674b37f53b45c4b7f974cc18.png

 

 

 

Edited by Grumpy Bear
newdude Senior Enthusiast

newdude

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

 

I'm not understanding how what Mobil is doing in disqualifying AMSOIL SS AZF 0W40. Edify me. Please. 

 

 

 

 

The 0w40 Supercar is low SAPS (same as ESP Formula just new name) and not API SP. 

 

Amsoil SS is API SP but I don't see a SAPS published.  

 

Therefore, SS in 0w40 would be the incorrect oil per Dexos R 0w40.  Dexos R 0w40 = ESP Forumla 0w40 = Dexos 2. 

 

The SS 5w50 for the Z06 and ZR1 is fine because Supercar 5w50 is an API SP oil.  

 

I love Amsoil as much as the next guy, but I'm not seeing how SS is the right choice here given the outlines of Dexos2/DexosR.  Going off the Dexos2/DexosR path, Amsoil FS European is the correct choice.  

Edited by newdude
Black02Silverado Senior Enthusiast

Black02Silverado

Posted
  • Author
Posted (edited)
16 hours ago, newdude said:

 

 

The 0w40 Supercar is low SAPS (same as ESP Formula just new name) and not API SP. 

 

Amsoil SS is API SP but I don't see a SAPS published.  

 

Therefore, SS in 0w40 would be the incorrect oil per Dexos R 0w40.  Dexos R 0w40 = ESP Forumla 0w40 = Dexos 2. 

 

The SS 5w50 for the Z06 and ZR1 is fine because Supercar 5w50 is an API SP oil.  

 

I love Amsoil as much as the next guy, but I'm not seeing how SS is the right choice here given the outlines of Dexos2/DexosR.  Going off the Dexos2/DexosR path, Amsoil FS European is the correct choice.  

There is more to the dexos R specification than just what is talked about here. Many more parameters that it has to pass than just what is listed.  Information that isn't public knowledge. AMSOIL isn't going to show the full formulary due to proprietary properties. But be sure that if they state it is dexos R, it is or GM would be taking them to court.  We all know they and other companies don't play the game of "pay to play" when it comes to being dexos rated.

 

AMSOIL is constantly tweaking their formula to improve it and with each tweak they would have to pay to be on the GM dexos list. That money is put toward improvement of their products as well as keeping the cost of the product as low as possible.

Edited by Black02Silverado
  • Like 3
Grumpy Bear Senior Enthusiast

Grumpy Bear

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, newdude said:

 

 

The 0w40 Supercar is low SAPS (same as ESP Formula just new name) and not API SP. 

 

Amsoil SS is API SP but I don't see a SAPS published.  

 

Therefore, SS in 0w40 would be the incorrect oil per Dexos R 0w40.  Dexos R 0w40 = ESP Forumla 0w40 = Dexos 2. 

 

The SS 5w50 for the Z06 and ZR1 is fine because Supercar 5w50 is an API SP oil.  

 

I love Amsoil as much as the next guy, but I'm not seeing how SS is the right choice here given the outlines of Dexos2/DexosR.  Going off the Dexos2/DexosR path, Amsoil FS European is the correct choice.  

 

You do see the lack of congruent conclusion there, right? The additive difference between those two SS oils is the Vm's polymer molecular weight. The only difference. SS 0W40 V SS 5W50

 

What? FS is full SAPS! 1.0+ ash. Kind of the definition of FULL SAPS. 

 

SAPS is more than ZDDP, it is every additive with a Sulphur backbone. ZDDP, Ca, Mg, Moly and inherent S. Converter life is a phosphorus issue, not a ash issue. LSPI is a Ca issue not an ash issue. Actually it's a combustion end gas issue and Honda has know that for about forever. SAE tech paper on that dating about 1965. 

 

Now all that said, people will protect a warranty before they will protect a motor. I get that. But I also understand and have proved to myself in 56 years of driving and maintaining that when ring seal prevents oil consumption ash is irrelevant. (Within reason). 

 

This OEM insistence on low ash oils isn't about high ash oil killing cats, it's about hedging a fragile ring seal that promotes fuel economy and sacrifices oil integrity. The perpetuation of the idea that a quart in a thou or two is garbage. Even low tension rings, properly broken in and properly lubricated (sealed) will take the additives loads required to maintain that seal long term. 

 

Last note. ASH as defined in the specification is only the ash incurred by the add package and calculated. The autoclave ash is MUCH higher. It's what you get when you thermally oxidize (burn) a Hydrocarbon. It is literally a shell game. 

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