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ditch IFS in favor of Dana 60 solid axle?

SuperDutyScaler

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SuperDutyScaler Enthusiast

SuperDutyScaler

Posted
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I know there are companies that offer this but has anybody on here done this personally? Im looking at selling my 2004 F350 and buying a new 1ton...... i looked at the new F350 and from a Ford guy im not into the circus looking front ends. Looked at the new GMC trucks and there are SO nice! Only problem i will not buy a IFS truck, i hunt fish off road etc and im not going to be buying IFS parts ever year to keep it together this is the reason for the solid axle swap. Ive never seen one of these in person but they are all over the internet and i have passed some on the highway before, just wanting personal expirence with this setup?

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Prokopchuk_9 Senior Enthusiast

Prokopchuk_9

Posted
Posted

The new ones are beefy and even older ones like mine are fine. If you plan on staying stock size tires you'll have less problems than you would with a new ford. The new fords ball joints are junk.

 

I have a less beefy front end cuz it's an LMM, I have bigger tie rods, pitman/idler arm supports (about $500 for that stuff, cheaper than a ford front end) and I've never had an issue. It still has factory ball joints at about 220,000kms. That's countless boost launches on 35" tires, all kinds of bush, fishing/hunting mileage. In the mountains too...

 

I would deff not be worried about the IFS, last of your worries IMO.

 

SAS will run you about 8 grand to do it properly...when you can spend $500 and get the same results.

Prokopchuk_9 Senior Enthusiast

Prokopchuk_9

Posted
Posted

No way you'll be buying parts every year...if you really were that hard on stuff than you would be buying parts for anything you bought...

SuperDutyScaler Enthusiast

SuperDutyScaler

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on my 04 F350 i installed a four inch lift after the first year with 35" mud terrains, do alot of towing (small backhoe) 10k dump trailer for work and mild offroading, hunting, dirtbiking that takes me way off paved roads to get there and i have 126,xxx miles on my truck all with original ball joints unit bearings in the front end. So the comment on how Ford's ball joints suck didnt happen to me. My perfect truck new GMC 3500 crew cab long bed SRW with cummings motor, allison trans, Ford leaf spring axles and Ford manual tcase....

Prokopchuk_9 Senior Enthusiast

Prokopchuk_9

Posted
Posted

on my 04 F350 i installed a four inch lift after the first year with 35" mud terrains, do alot of towing (small backhoe) 10k dump trailer for work and mild offroading, hunting, dirtbiking that takes me way off paved roads to get there and i have 126,xxx miles on my truck all with original ball joints unit bearings in the front end. So the comment on how Ford's ball joints suck didnt happen to me. My perfect truck new GMC 3500 crew cab long bed SRW with cummings motor, allison trans, Ford leaf spring axles and Ford manual tcase....

Urs is 04 high steer, they are good. I'm talkin 08+

Was urs a 6 litre too?

SouthernSilveradoGuy85 Senior Enthusiast

SouthernSilveradoGuy85

Posted
Posted

My old 98 was only a 1/2 ton, but as hard as I was on the truck the IFS stayed pretty wrong. The most I've had done to the front end steering and suspension wise was ball joints and a pitman arm. This was all in the 10 years that I owned it and it was 6 years old when I got it. Hell to prove how hard I was on that truck, I had the rear diff spider gears go out twice so I replaced the whole axle and had the engine blow up twice. The 1st time the oil pump went out when I was mudding and I didn't know it had went out. The 2nd time it just seized up while hauling ass on a dirt road. That's when I decided to sell the truck to the shop I usually go to and bought my current truck. HD IFS is stronger also so you shouldn't have any problems.

 

IFS is fine unless you do an 8" or bigger lift.

Prokopchuk_9 Senior Enthusiast

Prokopchuk_9

Posted
Posted

^^^or you throw HP at it and launch it under boost in 4x4...even then $500 is all you need to spend. And it will be as tough as any SFA, I can attest to that.

kstruckcountry Senior Enthusiast

kstruckcountry

Posted
Posted

I have seen both Dodge and Ford front ends throw a tie rod off (Both D80)... haven't seen it happen on a GM personally.

 

In my opinion the GM independent front end is as good/better than any stock solid axle. They have been doing it this way for over 20 years..... Tie rods are pretty well protected and the arms are beefy. Also no low front diff or full width tie rod to smash.

 

Additionally, the GM's have a better frame by far, it's much more rigid than the competitors'. Remember that the framework of the SuperDuty's hasn't changed much in the last 10 years. VS the GM which was really beefed up in '11. Google "GM flex test".

 

If you really want a solid axle, keep the pickup you have... Low miles and you don't have to pay for it again, lol. And why go with a 60? Do the f350's not come with an 80 now??

Prokopchuk_9 Senior Enthusiast

Prokopchuk_9

Posted
Posted

I have seen both Dodge and Ford front ends throw a tie rod off (Both D80)... haven't seen it happen on a GM personally.

 

In my opinion the GM independent front end is as good/better than any stock solid axle. They have been doing it this way for over 20 years..... Tie rods are pretty well protected and the arms are beefy. Also no low front diff or full width tie rod to smash.

 

Additionally, the GM's have a better frame by far, it's much more rigid than the competitors'. Remember that the framework of the SuperDuty's hasn't changed much in the last 10 years. VS the GM which was really beefed up in '11. Google "GM flex test".

 

If you really want a solid axle, keep the pickup you have... Low miles and you don't have to pay for it again, lol. And why go with a 60? Do the f350's not come with an 80 now??

Nope been Dana 60 for years and years, steering has changed. Same with some of the suspension geometry, but it's been a Dana 60 for years. I think some models had a Dana 50 too!

 

Ford has almost always had 35 spline Dana 60's for years, they went from a king pin to ball joints sometime early 90's...

 

I've looked into this as well, if I wasn't paying for an engine right now I would be doing this...

 

4 link set up, coil overs, ford Dana super 60 (out of 08+ f-450), convert from 10 lug to 8 lug using 05 f-350wheel bearings and use rotors from 04 f-450. And because it's 08 you can still retain TPMS, like I would anyways. But you could. That set up would cost you about $4000 just for the axle alone, then it's another $3-4000 for the rest of the set up (if you do the welding and labour yourself)

 

You can do the swap just as good with AAM 9.25" axle as well, but this you get beefier u-joints, better steering ankles and sharper turn radius...even better than just the regular Dana 60. If it gonna shell out the cash, the super 60 is best!

Prokopchuk_9 Senior Enthusiast

Prokopchuk_9

Posted
Posted

But...in reality you don't need to go through all of that. GM's front end is just fine for the average guy. And if it's not, $500 and worry free!

kstruckcountry Senior Enthusiast

kstruckcountry

Posted
Posted

Yeah all the power that's been through yours and it's still ok should say something...

 

I guess I was thinking the F350 had a D80 because that's what our Dodge 3500 has. I was pretty sure our old Ford did too but I guess that shows how much attention I pay to fords!

sdeeter19555 Senior Enthusiast

sdeeter19555

Posted
Posted

Dodge ran closed knuckle D70s into the early 70s, then opted for a conventional D60 (open knuckle) with drive slugs (not drive flanges) or external lockouts. They used that until the late 80s. They then changed to internal hubs around 90. All versions of the Dodge D60 until 1993 were kingpin and most were 35-spline 1.5" inner shafts and 30-spline outers. The later 90-93 D60s were the best front axle Dodge ever used...

 

In 1994 they used the unitized hub asssembly, center-axle-disconnects (CAD), and ball joints...they lost the CAD in the early 2000s. These were driver's side drop. These axles suffered death wobble with worn components. They have small diameter axles and stub shafts...

 

In 2003, they swapped to the 9.25" AAM with ball joints and unitized hubs...the center is very similar to that used in the GM 2500/3500. The early versions had issues with the steering linkage (inverted Y) and changed to an inverted T. They had issues with loose ball joints because they lack any preload ability. In 2008, they updated the steering assembly, but its still the weak point. These also suffered death wobble with worn components, but it was worse because of the ball joint design. They also have small diameter axles and stub shafts, but no CAD.

 

Personally, I would run the IFS and see how it holds up...then I would worry about an SAS if it was a worthwhile investment. I'm not sure I see any less components on the solid D60 than the IFS that will be prone to less wear...you still have tie rods, you have king pins versus ball joints, and you have spring bushings versus A-arm bushings. King pins are noteably stronger, but they really don't like mud/water...and less so than the modern ball joint. Both use a similar tie rod end...

 

And its CUMMINS, not CUMMINGS... :)

SuperDutyScaler Enthusiast

SuperDutyScaler

Posted
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Urs is 04 high steer, they are good. I'm talkin 08+

Was urs a 6 litre too?

 

 

no V10, 4.30 gears, detroit locker and i ordered it with six speed manual and manual 4wd. And 6.0 are absolute garbage

SuperDutyScaler Enthusiast

SuperDutyScaler

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I have seen both Dodge and Ford front ends throw a tie rod off (Both D80)... haven't seen it happen on a GM personally.

 

In my opinion the GM independent front end is as good/better than any stock solid axle. They have been doing it this way for over 20 years..... Tie rods are pretty well protected and the arms are beefy. Also no low front diff or full width tie rod to smash.

 

Additionally, the GM's have a better frame by far, it's much more rigid than the competitors'. Remember that the framework of the SuperDuty's hasn't changed much in the last 10 years. VS the GM which was really beefed up in '11. Google "GM flex test".

 

If you really want a solid axle, keep the pickup you have... Low miles and you don't have to pay for it again, lol. And why go with a 60? Do the f350's not come with an 80 now??

 

-im not getting into that frame argument on here........ i will say when big rigs go square tube then ill think about it, not till

-Ford and Dodge use D60 front axle there is no such thing as a front D80. Dodge and Ford use the D80 rear axle in their duallys

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