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Any used a P3 -AND- the GM Brake Controller in Current Gen?

ember1205

By ember1205
in Towing, Hauling & Hitches

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ember1205 Senior Enthusiast

ember1205

Posted
Posted

I have a '15 Sierra SLE with the factory brake controller installed. Have not used it at all, and am looking to get an equipment trailer that will require a brake controller.

 

I also happen to have a like-new Prodigy P3 brake controller that I used in my last full-size truck with a 10k trailer and was extremely happy with how well it worked.

 

My question is to those that have used BOTH the P3 -AND- the current generation integrated controller and can offer some comments on whether one is better than the other or not. If you have used a P3 and the integrated factory controller in a current gen 1500, that would be about the cleanest comparison I could think of.

 

I'm not directly looking for comments about whether one is great or poor... Only in search of comments dealing with a direct comparison of the two as I'm wondering if I should disconnect the factory controller to install my P3 or if the factory controller works pretty well.

kevin_nj Enthusiast

kevin_nj

Posted
Posted

Let me start by saying I typically only have the need for a brake controller a few times a year. That number is likely to increase since I sold my single axle non-brake trailer and upgraded to a tandem brake equipped one. I previously towed rented and borrowed brake equipped trailers.

 

With that said, I used a P3 in my old truck, and have the integrated in current. I've towed the new combination a few times, including an approximately 3000 mile trip. I find the integrated easier to setup and adjust. It's in a more convenient location to adjust and monitor in the DIC.

 

The biggest benefit I see is the claim that the truck will automatically engage the trailer brakes when the truck's computer detects trailer sway. An aftermaket controller can not do that.

ember1205 Senior Enthusiast

ember1205

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Let me start by saying I typically only have the need for a brake controller a few times a year. That number is likely to increase since I sold my single axle non-brake trailer and upgraded to a tandem brake equipped one. I previously towed rented and borrowed brake equipped trailers.

 

With that said, I used a P3 in my old truck, and have the integrated in current. I've towed the new combination a few times, including an approximately 3000 mile trip. I find the integrated easier to setup and adjust. It's in a more convenient location to adjust and monitor in the DIC.

 

The biggest benefit I see is the claim that the truck will automatically engage the trailer brakes when the truck's computer detects trailer sway. An aftermaket controller can not do that.

 

Good feedback - thank you.

 

I hadn't thought about the sway issue, but it makes sense. Truth be told, however, I typically do -NOT- like my vehicles automatically engaging the brakes in any capacity. I simply do not trust them to do it under the correct circumstances. I've had some sway creep up on me before and a quick and gentle squeeze of the manual brake control on the P3 settled it right back down. Since these trucks claim to require a WDH with anti-sway over 5k anyhow, there should be little need for that.

 

I -really- like the P3, and have absolutely zero experience with the integrated. So, I'm trying to figure out if I'm going to be happy with the integrated controller with the small amount that I tow.

kevin_nj Enthusiast

kevin_nj

Posted
Posted

I see your point, but you can't really get away from much of it.

You still have the ability to manually engage the trailer brakes with the slider at will.

My thinking is if I need to make an evasive maneuver I like the idea of the truck engaging the trailer brakes if needed. Since I do not tow on a consistent basis it would not be an automatic reaction for me to grab the slider. I think my concentration is better spent dealing with whatever issue caused me to take evasive measures. In times of "crisis" if you will, there's no time to think, your body reacts based on previous similar situations or training.

 

Another thought I had when deciding if I wanted to keep my P3 or not.... The unlikely chance of trailer brakes engaging when not really needed is much better than a situation where the trailer should have brakes applied and I was unable to react quick enough.

ember1205 Senior Enthusiast

ember1205

Posted
  • Author
Posted

I see your point, but you can't really get away from much of it.

You still have the ability to manually engage the trailer brakes with the slider at will.

My thinking is if I need to make an evasive maneuver I like the idea of the truck engaging the trailer brakes if needed. Since I do not tow on a consistent basis it would not be an automatic reaction for me to grab the slider. I think my concentration is better spent dealing with whatever issue caused me to take evasive measures. In times of "crisis" if you will, there's no time to think, your body reacts based on previous similar situations or training.

 

Another thought I had when deciding if I wanted to keep my P3 or not.... The unlikely chance of trailer brakes engaging when not really needed is much better than a situation where the trailer should have brakes applied and I was unable to react quick enough.

 

And that "evasive maneuver" sort of scenario is what would concern me the most with the integrated controller. The truck isn't going to "know" that I'm turning to avoid something, it's just potentially going to sense what it thinks is "sway" and may attempt to apply the brakes. My wife's car has the "Collision Avoidance" garbage in it, and I have been surprised on more than one occasion (as was the driver behind me) when the car applied the brakes hard because of a car well out in front of me that was slowing to turn out of the lane of travel.

 

Anything requiring a panic stop of sorts is going to be handled fine by the P3 as it has the motion sensing in it to determine how hard you've hit the brakes so that it can adjust the braking force on the trailer. I'm sure it would be handled very similarly by the integrated controller unless it uses detection of the attitude of the truck (as opposed to inertia force) to determine how hard the truck is braking.

  • 3 weeks later...
14GFXSilverado Enthusiast

14GFXSilverado

Posted
Posted

In my opinion as a trailer tech... I agree and disagree with all statements above. The integrated controller is a very simple controller to use. It does the basics that you need it to do. I have one in my 14 Silverado and it does the job quite well. I have been in different driving conditions and have never seen it automatically "kick in" to stop trailer sway. I also strongly believe in using the proper hitch setups (wdh/sway bar(s)). The P3 is a great controller, you can preset brake output levels and it can control and power heavier magnets that are on heavier trailers a lot better than the factory one can(voltage and amp draw are considerably better).I also tell my customers that if they want something a little better than a standard controller to then get the Prodigy P2 controller. Exact same as the P3 just that the P3 can do electric over hydraulic brakes as well just not electric. So depending on vehicle and trailer and amount of towing would be my final decision... for my current applications I use my 14 Chev I am happy with the integrated controller but on the heavier hauls my truck has the P3.

ember1205 Senior Enthusiast

ember1205

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks for the thoughts and input. Interesting to read.

 

While I like how "clean" the integrated controller is in terms of looks, I personally don't like it on the left of the wheel. If I have only one hand on the wheel at any given point, it tends to be my left. Reaction times and such to bring the right hand to the wheel and the left hand to the controller are not as good as just bringing the right hand to the controller to manually apply brake.

 

I'm looking at swapping in my '15 Sierra DC for a '15 Silvy CC and the second truck doesn't have the integrated controller. So, I would end up wiring in my P3.

 

How heavy is "heavy" when you're referring to the heavier trailers with larger magnets? I had a 10k Anderson equipment trailer that I dragged using the P3. I'm picking up a 10k Big Tex this week to pull using the integrated controller. Is that "heavy enough" to realize in difference in controller performance?

 

Considering trailer brakes don't really start showing up until you go North of 3k, and the trucks -generally- aren't rated to pull more than 10k (in addition to the PITA it is to register a trailer above 10k in some places like it is in CT), I would like to believe that these trailers are all within the capabilities of that controller. But, I just don't know that for certain. Thoughts?

GsBowtie Enthusiast

GsBowtie

Posted
Posted

I had the p3 in the truck traded and I have a 15 with the GM intergrated controller. Both work for imo. I tow a 6k lb travel trailer. Both are very smooth braking. Can't go wrong with either. I do really like the p3 though. But the factory one works great too and the lower dash is cleaner

14GFXSilverado Enthusiast

14GFXSilverado

Posted
Posted

The integrated controller is fine the way it is... By when I meant heavier trailers I mean heavy such as 21k trailers. That's where I prefer the P3 over the factory any day.As far as your trailer that you are getting you will be fine. The integrated controllers are designed mainly for 2 axle trailers with 7000lb axles they can handle more but that is their basic design.

I just bought another truck for the shop... 2015 Chev 3500... it has the integrated controller but with some of the trailers I deal with I had the dealership deactivate it and then I installed my P3.

 

Hope that helps.

ember1205 Senior Enthusiast

ember1205

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Thanks... It does.

 

I dragged the new trailer home today - 150 miles in torrential rain. I have to try different settings on the controller to get it "just right", but it seems that a gain setting of about 1.5-2.0 is what works best to stop the trailer (2500 lbs empty) while the truck's brakes stop the truck.

 

Any input on gain settings versus weight?

 

Does it remember the setting it was on the last time you used it?

 

Why can't I apply enough brakes to the trailer to keep the truck from moving forward? It seems I have to crank the gain way up to achieve that, and that's far too much braking power on the trailer when it's empty.

 

I also noticed that the amount of braking power applied to the trailer appears to be directly related to how hard you press on the brake pedal (you can watch the amount of braking force slide upward on the scale while sitting still if you press harder on the pedal) - THAT'S a nice little "extra".

14GFXSilverado Enthusiast

14GFXSilverado

Posted
Posted

As far as gain settings versus weight my only advice is that once you change the trailer or the trailer weight then adjust the controller to what feels best for you and the truck... obviously it will react differently when the trailer has been changed.

Yes the truck will keep your settings everytime. Once you change the settings it will remember the last setting it was adjusted to.

 

As far as the trailer brakes stopping the truck that can lead to a few possibilities. First the controllers in the truck only put out a maximum of 10.5 Volts... not a full 12 volts. Therefore it will not put maximum power to the magnets but still enough that it should hold enough brakes to stop the truck... Other options could be the trailer brakes themselves... if the brakes are new on the trailer then they actually need a break in period and 2-3 adjustments done on the shoes... Dexter axle recommends having the brakes adjusted after the first 50 and 200 miles of installation of new shoes or drums. So your brakes on the trailer could possibly be out of adjustment and just need to be set again.

ember1205 Senior Enthusiast

ember1205

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Trailer is brand new... Towed it home yesterday, about 200 miles. Need to check the lug nuts, and I'll take a look at the brakes as well (I don't like it feels like they 'hang' after stopping and don't release fully until you've rolled a few feet).

ember1205 Senior Enthusiast

ember1205

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Follow-up question on the integrated controller:

 

I noticed that the trailer brakes seem to remain at least partially engaged after stopping at a light or intersection (or whatever) until the truck has rolled forward a couple of feet. Does the integrated controller continue to provide power to the trailer brakes along the lines of "Hill Start Assist" in the truck until it's sure the truck is underway under its own power? The trailer brakes release with a sort of "thump" after the truck has started moving. The trailer uses the Dexter axles that require no adjusting, so I'm guessing that it's -not- something that needs any sort of adjustment on the trailer (could be wrong).

austingta Enthusiast

austingta

Posted
Posted

I have towed medium weight (up to 15000) trailers all my life. The integrated controller does as well or better than any aftermarket one I have had. For a load only a new HD can handle, is the P3 really better?

 

Trailer2_zps1b368ffd.jpg

14GFXSilverado Enthusiast

14GFXSilverado

Posted
Posted

As far as I know the hill start assist does work with the controller as well. There will be a delay with the trailer same as the truck. As you try to move forward it will have a thump because the power to the brakes is still on and the once the assist releases it will then release the brakes.

 

As far the heavier loads for HD trucks yes I do believe the the P3 is better on heavier loads. The trailers that my 3500 hauls are 7k triple axle trailers(21000lbs). With the integrated removed and p3 installed I do notice that I can apply more power to the brakes. I do believe the integrated is a good controller and can handle most trailers but like I said on the heavy loads my 3500 does I really do recommend the P3.

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