6 Speed Transmission Issues

KARNUT · March 6, 2019

The last ford power stroke I had was a 98 and an automatic. It pretty much ran in limp mode until it reached at certain temperature. Of course the dealer said it was normal. It shifted really hard too.

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Ohiozr2 · March 6, 2019

21 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I haven't got eye in the program like 1SLOW1500 so I don't know what I don't know. What I do know is that above 100F my transmission is about as perfect as a mechanical device can be. Yes I notice the slight 'bump' in rpm between shifts but only if I'm watching the tachometer. Some see this as a negative.

Before the days of TCM when automatics were shifted on vacuum and a governor there was programed into the hydraulics the condition where as the first gear clutch was disengaging the second gear band was starting to apply. Meaning for a fraction of a second you were both in first and second gear. They only thing that kept the box from breaking was 'slip'. But it didn't show up on the tachometer. It just felt like a very smooth shift. It would repeat going for the second gear band to the high gear clutch pack. This created excess friction that given enough time wore out clutches and bands. Companies like B&M made shift kits that eliminated or reduced this over lap and increased line pressures. The result was lower wear but a fairly abrupt shift and if you had your foot in it, it might bark the tires pretty good even if the motor powering it was under 200 hp. and the car over 3500 pounds. Either way, people complained and wear was traded for component failures and happy teenagers. Converters didn't have lock up clutches and slip overheated transmission fluids when towing or if stall speeds were too high. We added coolers and low slip fluids much like the old Ford Type F. Honda still uses a variant. B&M called theirs Trick Shift.

So now we have a computer calling the shots and between gears the motor is allowed a bit of freewheeling, slip over demand, and to keep it from feeling like a train hits you each shift the timing and fuel are cut to reduce torque, thus called torque management. People hate that too.

Bottom line every possible combination has been tried and all that changes is which people get happy. Yes a tune might improve your personal perception and tailor the shift to your specific taste. Question becomes...will the rest of the drive line like it? One of the things I love about machines is that they will do what they are told.

Obviously a transmission must be able to work acceptably at any temperature it is expected to see and yes this includes

-50F to 300F. What isn't expected is that it remain at either extreme for more than a transitory time. We still use coolers to clip the upper limit and now a thermostat to cap the lower limits of 'normal' operation. Do they get it perfect? Depends our likes and dislikes doesn't it?

This is just offered as some additional material to help you determine what might be okay and what could be an issue requiring professional attention. We are not there and we are not living with it.

I get it, it doesn’t have to be perfect. It just makes me nervous that the cold is showing an underlying problem. If it isn’t damaging and how the vehicle was intended to operate, I can deal.

Grumpy Bear · March 6, 2019

1 hour ago, Ohiozr2 said:

I get it, it doesn’t have to be perfect. It just makes me nervous that the cold is showing an underlying problem. If it isn’t damaging and how the vehicle was intended to operate, I can deal.

It's a viscosity issue. Fluids get thick when they get cold. It affects hydraulic pressures. It has a working range but everything mechanical has limits. Again not saying there isn't a problem. I'm just not there.

Look, most people couldn't tell if a tire was 10 psi low. My wife without the TPMS knows when they are 3 psi off and which tire it is. She just feels things most people miss. A high tactile awareness.

KARNUT · March 6, 2019

It's a viscosity issue. Fluids get thick when they get cold. It affects hydraulic pressures. It has a working range but everything mechanical has limits. Again not saying there isn't a problem. I'm just not there.

Look, most people couldn't tell if a tire was 10 psi low. My wife without the TPMS knows when they are 3 psi off and which tire it is. She just feels things most people miss. A high tactile awareness.

We gave my daughter an 4 door merk for her first car. One day she says her cars started making roaring noise recently. Of coarse like always they tell me after it gets dark. Half mile down the road the fan is roaring, the twice pipes blaring, it wouldn't shift passed second gear. Oh damn I'm thinking transmission shot. Turns out the passing gear linkage fell off. Took ten minute to fix. I ask my lovely talented daughter how long has this been going on. I don't know she says, I turned down the radio and heard it a few days ago. I was going ask why it was using so much gas....

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DeePa · March 12, 2019

Does anyone have the tsb for the 6 speed shudder?

DeePa · March 13, 2019

So the dealer test drove the vehicle, and felt the slight shudder, but the pico did not pick it up...So they didn't do anything for my 6 speed.

The tech was saying the updated fluid was only for the 8 speeds. Is this correct?

They mentioned that I should just keep driving it until it gets worse, then they will try again for the TSB...they're very cooperative and trying to help, but the pico needs to pick up the shudder in order for the work to be covered under warranty, which makes sense.

Part of me wants to get the fluid flushed / pan dropped and filter changed, get a tune done, and be done with it. The truck has 53k on it, I towed a 22' 6k trailer 2000 miles when the truck was only had 6000 miles on it, so that's why I'd like to get the fluid changed out.

The shudder happens more when its cold out and the trans temp is around 150 deg. Sometimes it happens severely in the middle of a long trip but its almost impossible to duplicate when the pico is hooked up. It happens more with the stock rim/tires (which I had on for the dealer visit), but it does not happen as badly with the 33" tires and rims...they're larger and heavier, so the trans is less likely to stay in the shudder sweet spot. It'll downshift earlier or stay locked up, and my fuel mileage obviously pays for it.

Thoughts? Am I making a big deal out of nothing?

Thanks

Mike

1SLOW1500 · March 13, 2019

So the dealer test drove the vehicle, and felt the slight shudder, but the pico did not pick it up...So they didn't do anything for my 6 speed.

The tech was saying the updated fluid was only for the 8 speeds. Is this correct?

They mentioned that I should just keep driving it until it gets worse, then they will try again for the TSB...they're very cooperative and trying to help, but the pico needs to pick up the shudder in order for the work to be covered under warranty, which makes sense.

Part of me wants to get the fluid flushed / pan dropped and filter changed, get a tune done, and be done with it. The truck has 53k on it, I towed a 22' 6k trailer 2000 miles when the truck was only had 6000 miles on it, so that's why I'd like to get the fluid changed out.

The shudder happens more when its cold out and the trans temp is around 150 deg. Sometimes it happens severely in the middle of a long trip but its almost impossible to duplicate when the pico is hooked up. It happens more with the stock rim/tires (which I had on for the dealer visit), but it does not happen as badly with the 33" tires and rims...they're larger and heavier, so the trans is less likely to stay in the shudder sweet spot. It'll downshift earlier or stay locked up, and my fuel mileage obviously pays for it.

Thoughts? Am I making a big deal out of nothing?

Thanks

Mike

I would do the fluid and filter. If it was me I would do the converter also.but I understand that's a little involved for most people. Then get a tune that removed the afm DOD. Stiffen up the shifts under load and demand and never have a issue again.
Anyone that knows anything about these truck and engine knows the afm and DOD is a gov push on the manufacturers to get the mpg and friendly trucks made but is a nightmare of bs. Good tunes turn it of in the first tune and disable torque management.
Poor tran is stuck in the middle of a fight with the engine management and ever changing trans software.

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DeePa · March 13, 2019

Dropping off the truck for a dyno tune / trans tune / AFM delete on Saturday...should have it back by next Tuesday.

I'll get the fluid flush done and go from there.

Thanks for your help....waiting for this to get worse and having to deal with the dealer over and over...this is the easy and more exciting way out.

1SLOW1500 · March 13, 2019

Dropping off the truck for a dyno tune / trans tune / AFM delete on Saturday...should have it back by next Tuesday.

I'll get the fluid flush done and go from there.

Thanks for your help....waiting for this to get worse and having to deal with the dealer over and over...this is the easy and more exciting way out.

Just food for thought. It's a few buck but order a new trans pan with drain plug and the bonus of cooling the fluid. Also find the the name of the tune and request the file. Easy and he just loads it to a thump drive. If you ever have issues you can upload tune and have it fixed for free. Or build of it.
For what you are asking there are posted files available and if you had the tuner you can just plug in and push write.
Also there are 2 trans profiles normal and tow. But ask him to remove torque management and afm and DOD also shoot for 12 afr. These engines like it rich we even do 11-12 depending on use and combo.

And let's us know the results

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DeePa · March 13, 2019

He’s an ex gm field engineer and knows his stuff. He’s going from square 1 and tuning it while it’s on the dyno.

He did my 91 c4’s modded 383. Came out great.

I’ll post the truck numbers mid week.

Im not against doing a trans pan/filter/possible torque converter myself. The exhaust system is in the way and I really don’t feel like this turning into a full blown project. I have that with my vette. This is just a tune for some HP / TQ, removing the shudder, fixing the trans, and getting rid of AFM.

Thanks and ill I’ll be in touch

Mike

1SLOW1500 · March 13, 2019

He’s an ex gm field engineer and knows his stuff. He’s going from square 1 and tuning it while it’s on the dyno.

He did my 91 c4’s modded 383. Came out great.

I’ll post the truck numbers mid week.

Im not against doing a trans pan/filter/possible torque converter myself. The exhaust system is in the way and I really don’t feel like this turning into a full blown project. I have that with my vette. This is just a tune for some HP / TQ, removing the shudder, fixing the trans, and getting rid of AFM.

Thanks and ill I’ll be in touch

Mike

Makes he wonder if I know him....this a Michigan location?

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DeePa · March 13, 2019

No. Rhode Island. Maximum Performance in Bristol, RI.

DeePa · March 19, 2019

Got the truck done. Feels much better shifting but haven’t had it on the highway yet.

Stuck with 87/89 fuel.

Gained 20 tq and 20 hp average. Tune was done on a mustang dyno. Max tq 269 at 4100 rpms and 259 hp at 5500 rpms.

Ill have a better feel for it once I get a tank of fuel through it and will report back.

What are normal hp/tq gains when tuned ???

1SLOW1500 · March 19, 2019

1 hour ago, DeePa said:

Got the truck done. Feels much better shifting but haven’t had it on the highway yet.

Stuck with 87/89 fuel.

Gained 20 tq and 20 hp average. Tune was done on a mustang dyno. Max tq 269 at 4100 rpms and 259 hp at 5500 rpms.

Ill have a better feel for it once I get a tank of fuel through it and will report back.

What are normal hp/tq gains when tuned ???

That's good without mods and shittt gas. And on a mustang dyno non the less. Bet it feels like more then 20hp. When done right and torque management disabled when you ask for throttle is gives you that amount rather then parenting the amount to you slowly.

I try to tell people but it isn't till you get it done does one appreciate it.

ENJOY....

DeePa · March 19, 2019

Just took it for a 55 mile or so test drive. It’s always an uneasy feeling to drop 500 bucks not really knowing what the results could be.

This truck is so much smoother and more relaxing to drive. There’s more useable power and when at low cruising rpms, you can give it light throttle and it’ll accelerate with out downshifting like an ****. The trans TC shudder is gone. No more guessing to lock/unlock/downshift.

Got 18.0 avg mpg over 25 miles and 18.1 over 50 miles driving between 70-75-80 the whole time. The truck is leveled with bilsteins, and has 275/60/20s on aftermarket rims. Just by putting the slightly larger rims/tires on, I lost over 2 mpg before the tune.

Part of me wishes I went with a better octane/more aggressive tune, but I’m really happy with it and it was worth every penny.

It also feels like the truck vibrates less at highway speeds. I did get it aligned and wheels balanced before the tune, but this feels even better.

Screw the 6 speed tsbs. Just tune it and be done with it. Anyone in New England, I have a great tuner in RI.

thanks all.

Mike