Towing

KARNUT · August 19, 2019

I remember a movie with Lucy and Ricky called the long trailer, many years ago. That car probably had 2 ply tires and a 3 on the tree. It was a common site years ago to see cars pulling campers. Back in the day we pull our equipment legally with 3/4- 1 tons all across the lower U.S. Hell, my goose neck trailer alone weigh 7500 LBs. My clearing tractor weigh 12K. It’s like anything else we become overly cautious and lost our minds. You’ll get arrested if you’re kid doesn’t padded up to ride a bike. Brings back a memory. Doing a pipeline job in the early 90s. The inspector showed us a paper he got that morning. It said don’t sweat. Leave your truck running. If you feel your self getting warm go to your truck. Employees could be terminated for sweating. The area we were working it’s 80 in the morning. Someone must have gotten heat exhaustion earlier. Instead of using common sense, they sent the letter. It’s the way of the world today.

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diyer2 · August 19, 2019

Whew!

A little common sense goes a long way.

16LT4 · August 19, 2019

8 hours ago, Yondu said:

So they can all tow 12500. Got it.

The firmer suspension, more aggressive gearing and additional coolers do nothing.

Got it.

The trucks are rated for what they can handle on the interstate in any type of (non dangerous) weather.

All that stuff does is make it easier for the average person to tow without making a mistake or having a breakdown for being stupid, and people drink it up. When I was looking at Rams a few years ago, the salesman said that if I didn’t get the towing gear 3.92 to pull over 4K lbs, the rear would explode. He then said that if I was going to pull over 6k, I absolutely needed a 2500 with a Cummins...To pull a small boat. There are plenty of people who buy that crap, and they seem to populate the towing forums.

Specs come from marketers and risk management types seeking to maximize sales vs assuming minimum liability in the process, and take into account the lowest common denominator of those driving the vehicles. You know, the same people for which we can thank for back up cameras, lane departure warnings, increasingly autonomous vehicles, and automatic braking.

Back in the 80s and 90s, my neighbor used an S10 4 cyl longbed with a 4 speed to move tile, more than most would throw in a 3500 today. After 25 years of service, that truck still ran great at over 300k miles on its original components, original clutch, and a slightly bent frame from decades of carrying a 7ft bed stacked with ceramic tile every week. The logic of many in this thread would imply that a K2, with 4x the hp, double the frame, superior brakes and much heavier duty suspension, can barely surpass or match the performance of a 1980s S Truck. It’s like people think that if they feel their load at all, they’re going to careen off the road in a fiery wreck. To that end, I’d posit that the older trucks may have been safer to tow with, as the heavy load forced you to constantly feel it, to not forget it, and in turn drive incredibly defensively to compensate for it. Being passed on the highway by a pickup (or more likely a station wagon) with a trailer was a non occurrence.

16LT4 · August 19, 2019

2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I remember a movie with Lucy and Ricky called the long trailer, many years ago. That car probably had 2 ply tires and a 3 on the tree. It was a common site years ago to see cars pulling campers. Back in the day we pull our equipment legally with 3/4- 1 tons all across the lower U.S. Hell, my goose neck trailer alone weigh 7500 LBs. My clearing tractor weigh 12K. It’s like anything else we become overly cautious and lost our minds. You’ll get arrested if you’re kid doesn’t padded up to ride a bike. Brings back a memory. Doing a pipeline job in the early 90s. The inspector showed us a paper he got that morning. It said don’t sweat. Leave your truck running. If you feel your self getting warm go to your truck. Employees could be terminated for sweating. The area we were working it’s 80 in the morning. Someone must have gotten heat exhaustion earlier. Instead of using common sense, they sent the letter. It’s the way of the world today.

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So you were pulling 20k lbs with maybe 200 hp and rear drum brakes? You maniac!

KARNUT · August 19, 2019

So you were pulling 20k lbs with maybe 200 hp and rear drum brakes? You maniac! [emoji12]

My first diesel was 165 HP and 400 ft lbs of TQ. Forth gear at max RPM all day long. I did turn up the fuel pump and govern speed for the 2-3 shift.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk My trailer was rated to handle 25K. It stopped the truck. My first set of truck brakes was around 90K, just before I handed off to a crew and got my next pulling truck.

Alec DiAstra · August 19, 2019

I find it amusing time anyone uses the term "back in the day" to justify behavior that is now considered unwise, sophomoric, or otherwise ill advised. We did a lot of things "back in the day" that were unsafe, ignorant or stupid.

KARNUT · August 19, 2019

I find it amusing time anyone uses the term "back in the day" to justify behavior that is now considered unwise, sophomoric, or otherwise ill advised. We did a lot of things "back in the day" that were unsafe, ignorant or stupid.

That’s just it, it wasn’t for the most part. Like it’s often said the greatest generation. I have to agree. It’s not now.

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TRKLGND · August 19, 2019

On 8/16/2019 at 7:12 AM, Alec DiAstra said:

As stated the limits are the law. period. If you get in ANY sort of accident, your fault or not, and you are over the limit, you are at fault. Towing over the limit is risky behavior and those that do it put themselves and others in harms way. Maybe you need to read the NHSTA guidelines and why they exist.

Your experience towing does not change the specifications of the truck. Perhaps you should reevaluate your clear disregard for the safety of others on the road.

1000% agree! Don't be an idiot and put my life at risk. You do NOT have that right!

amxguy1970 · August 19, 2019

^ Same can be said for anyone texting while driving. If you think a slightly overloaded trailer is putting you in danger there are many more things doing that on a daily basis you should be even more upset at... It may be the law but it certainly isn't the actual capability of the vehicle where limits are set.

Tyler

16LT4 · August 19, 2019

21 minutes ago, amxguy1970 said:

^ Same can be said for anyone texting while driving. If you think a slightly overloaded trailer is putting you in danger there are many more things doing that on a daily basis you should be even more upset at... It may be the law but it certainly isn't the actual capability of the vehicle where limits are set.

Tyler

Or even doing 1 mph over the posted limit. Speeding is speeding. With towing, It actually isn’t even the law. The law applies to commercial vehicles, or those over 26,001 GVWR and 10,001 axle rating.

I can understand wanting to keep within specs. It’s easier, and for those unsure of their abilities, no doubt safer. What I can’t stand is guys with no experiencing doing something telling others who can safely do something despite alleged “danger” that they’re hazardous.

Here’s a question in logic: which is more dangerous, my 4 wheel disc equipped 5.3 3.42 geared K2 hauling a payload of 1800 lbs, or my 1984 S15 with 110 hp V6, rear drums and single piston fronts, with a spaghetti c channel frame hauling a payload of 1500 lbs? From the rules set forth above there is only one correct answer.

And for the record, those bubble wagons had a tow rating of 7500 lbs IIRC, so by the rules set forth by the internet masters, the OP is safer using a 25 year old wagon than his truck to pull his load. Logic!

Alec DiAstra · August 19, 2019

Your arguments are classic "whataboutism"

I say its illegal, you say "What about speeding? What about texting?"
Well they are also illegal, so dont do them, but they have NOTHING to do with this discussion. Here is a site you should reference before making an argument https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ It will help you to not make logical mistakes which invalidate your argument.

There are a few thing we can choose to go by here.

The LAW
The MANUFACTURES numbers
NHTSA guidelines for safety
Somebody online telling you to disregard all three of the above.

I dont know about most of you, but when it comes to something as paramount as my safety and the safety of others, I will abide by 1,2 and 3 before listening to anyone online. Especially anyone who has already suggested breaking the law multiple times.

KARNUT · August 19, 2019

Keeping mind the trailer is responsible for stopping its own carrying capacity. What’s the main difference between trucks today and say just 10 years ago 20 years ago? Little to do with safety more to do with what? Trucks have More TQ and Horsepower is the answer.

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TRKLGND · August 19, 2019

55 minutes ago, amxguy1970 said:

^ Same can be said for anyone texting while driving. If you think a slightly overloaded trailer is putting you in danger there are many more things doing that on a daily basis you should be even more upset at... It may be the law but it certainly isn't the actual capability of the vehicle where limits are set.

Tyler

I completely agree that distracted driving is a problem. That doesn't minimize the fact that towing overloaded is also a problem. And you specifically said "slightly overloaded". How about double? dukedkt442 says all 2k trucks can safely tow 10k-12k. A 2018 2wd CC V6 with 3.23 gears is only rated at 5200lb. We haven't even started talking about payload yet. The same truck with a 12,000lb trailer will also be overloaded.