DEF usage. 6.6 vs 3.0

[topgear1224]

22 minutes ago, mookdoc6 said:

Wonder why the DEF tanks keep getting bigger?  Wonder why more people go from Diesel to Gas?  Wonder why FERD has a 7.3L gasser now?  Wonder why GM has not released it's Big Block/Big Bore...not sure about that rumor has it's coming.  They all spend hugely to make Diesel compliant course the new L5P sucks more DEF much more........Are you towing for a living?  Get a gasser is all I can say.  Relieve yourself of 40 GM Hoops to maintain valid warranty and writing novels on figuring out the IN/OUTS.  Why even mess around with Diesel at -40 it's always going to cost WAY MORE THAN IT'S WORTH

LM2 can cold start without being plugged in down to -22F. (0w-20 DexosD oil)

[redwngr]

2 hours ago, topgear1224 said:

i do 20K a year. originally got the 5.3, falls flat on face at high RPM. did a swap only option was 3.0, no 6.2 on lot. 

 

2019 5.3 had a ton of other electrical issues. was avg 20 MPG highway at 55. drove a few all were lazy on highway. lazy is okay if MPG backs it up. 20mpg is only 6 better than my 2003 2500HD 8.1.

 

3.0 gets 33mpg same highway same speed. needed 5yr 100K warranty to back up 5yr loan. made sense.

 

5.5 DEF tank SUPPOSED to last for a full oil change cycle (approx 10K miles) . didn't know about the d-max issues up here. NOR about the Supertech issue.

 

me from another thread

"I have 2400 miles and showing 180miles remaining...... Def is 15.28/ GALLON up here.......

That's .04/mile in DEF. Or based on my 24mpg avg and extra 0.96 per gallon of fuel used.....

Diesel is $2.70 +$0.96 in DEF.

This damn thing is $3.66/gallon to go 24 miles.
15.25¢ per mile....

The 6.2L is 12¢(19mpg combined) per mile WTH."

 

not really much i could do. the 5.3 is trash FOR MY USE. it was 3.0 or keep the electrical nightmare 19 LTZ.  couldn't walk away.

You still don't know it if was really full. 

If it wasn't, then all the rest of the calcs are also off.  (hopefully be alot) 

The miles remaining thing is also just an indication  -- that can change with how the truck is used/what its fuel mileage was vs what is is in the net couple hundred.

 

 

Do the test and find out how it really performs, without relying on the guess-o-meter / fef indictor. 

 

If you do 20k/year, you'll know soon enough. 

But only if you fill it and then can test with measured def vs odometer miles  (take the level indicator out of the calcs)

 

And find a cheaper source for your def.

[mookdoc6]

2 hours ago, topgear1224 said:

LM2 can cold start without being plugged in down to -22F. (0w-20 DexosD oil)

Yes, I know it has Glow plugs and Grid Heater/Screen to cold start at exceptionally cold ambient...the oil helps it too it's spec'd for.  I can only state that knowing guys with L5P's and my interest in LM2 like you have I can only surmise....GM is making these babies eat DEF to never have a lawsuit pertaining to exhaust EVER!  I would also guess they never filled you up at dealer either?  I never return a car to the car rental ABSOLUTELY FULL either even though the gauge is on Full?  I understand you don't want to get screwed either and I hope you can go at least 75% of oil change interval before ABSOLUTELY NEEDING DEF.  If your in that cold of environment it's gonna suck it even quicker.  Remember don't buy quantities of DEF because of shelf life etc.  Maybe figure out an amount that you pour into tank and always arrive at Dealership for routine Oil Change and DEF top up!  Yup, I put on 7,500 miles and 2 gallons remains...........

 

How do you like the truck by the way?

[topgear1224]

Yes, I know it has Glow plugs and Grid Heater/Screen to cold start at exceptionally cold ambient...the oil helps it too it's spec'd for.  I can only state that knowing guys with L5P's and my interest in LM2 like you have I can only surmise....GM is making these babies eat DEF to never have a lawsuit pertaining to exhaust EVER!  I would also guess they never filled you up at dealer either?  I never return a car to the car rental ABSOLUTELY FULL either even though the gauge is on Full?  I understand you don't want to get screwed either and I hope you can go at least 75% of oil change interval before ABSOLUTELY NEEDING DEF.  If your in that cold of environment it's gonna suck it even quicker.  Remember don't buy quantities of DEF because of shelf life etc.  Maybe figure out an amount that you pour into tank and always arrive at Dealership for routine Oil Change and DEF top up!  Yup, I put on 7,500 miles and 2 gallons remains...........
 
How do you like the truck by the way?

Well you asked so here you go.

So truck is a elevation crew cab standard bed. Personally I would not get this particular trim. there's no doubt in satin steel it looks absolutely amazing. But it does have painted bumpers in a city that lays down over 300 tons of pea gravel a year.

moving up one trim level get you better standard equipment which was all optional on my elevation and leather for like $1,200 more so I probably get an SLT if I was to build a serria

Ironically I actually had a 4.3 L custom loaner which had an MSRP of 43 ish versus my 58 ish.

and I was actually thoroughly impressed with the base v6 motor which is something I've NEVER said about any truck ever. I think a lot of it has to do with the 3.42 gearing and the fact that 6-speed is from the work truck and unlike the 10-speed for instance if I'm doing 60 and put it in L and click all the way down to L1 with the 10-speed it just flashes at you and it won't downshift any lower on its own you have to continue to select down as you slow down. Where is the 6-speed it'll just display L1 and it has you slow down it will actually blip all the way down to first gear.

One of the other things I noticed is the 5.3 and the 3L initial throttle input isn't that good at all. I regularly find myself accelerating and then suddenly not when it shifts into 2nd or 3rd gear and then I have to give it more gas for it to continue to accelerate. On the 4.3 small pedal inputs are actually acknowledged by the vehicle. mid-range just like all the GM's you can have to dig into her to get her to go but it's very predictable and natural on the 4.3 L. things that weren't super impressive on the 4.3 liter was really the fuel economy but at the same time you're saving so much money for what is basically the same truck I'm willing to give it a pass. 15,000 goes really far in fuel over the lifetime that you own the vehicle. (Assuming you do normal people mileage, not crazy like me)

I actually really enjoy the durability of the seats in the custom which are from the work truck versus my elevation that already have picked up quite a bit of dirt and have slightly frayed.

only thing that would really kill me with the custom is the fact that you can't get the sliding rear window and that the 7in screen has no controls on the steering wheel for the audio and then you have to combine that with the fact that it has an insanely small audio knob that's not very responsive.

the radio is crap but to be honest the Bose system is too. don't get me wrong the Bose gets very loud but it's also very high-pitched and tinny and the bass is VERY muddy. it lacks an independent control for the center-mounted subwoofer instead uses the mid ranges in the door to produce the vast majority of your bass.

If my empty trailer didn't weigh 3000 pounds I really do think a 4.3 would be the best bang for your buck in the entire market.

Now know I've yet to drive the 2.7 or the 6.2 however I will say GM is already stated they limited the 2.7 towing capability because they ran into some thermal challenges and that alone ruins it for me and the fact that a 2.7 liter turbo is going to end up drinking like a 5L when you're always on the boost.

Anywho, the LM2.

It's a really good engine. It's very smooth and if you live in a city with lower speed limits like 55-60 it gets insanely good gas mileage, period, let alone a truck (32-36 mpg cruising) now the fact that I have a Sierra does mean that has the speed increases the poorer air dynamics of the Sierra do come into play I'm still averaging around 26 or so at 70. Silverado will likely do better in that department. Bear in mind this is On Alaska diesel which nobody really knows what's actually in it.


GM has definitely held the engine back a little bit in first gear. although a lot of that going to be a factor how short 1st gear is so doesn't really have enough time to build as much boost as you would expect. the engine brake does work however you have to keep in mind that it is just a 3L. it's not going to perform similar to the big diesels, It can't actually bring itself to nearly a stop. But it actually truly does make a difference. the engine brake only operates in tow/haul mode so what I find myself a lot doing is when I'm going through hills with the cruise control on, I'll actually go and engage tow haul mode for the downhill because it's more likely to downshift and hold my speed closer then it does a normal mode which will still downshift but the engine seems to have a little problem holding the truck back on its own without the engine brake. if you manually select your gears and your are in tow haul mode you can get it to generate pretty good boost, the highest I've seen is about 18 lb of boost while engine braking. (Max boost is 29 under power)

the engine does have some slight idiosyncrasies when it comes to its injection timing that sometimes make it vibrate more than it really should especially for being an inline 6 and it does sometimes get a little clattery under certain loads and certain conditions.

if I had one major gripe it's that although GM has peak horsepower at almost 4,000 RPM the engine really does fall on its face at those RPMs, now it can pull all the way to 5000 without much of an issue, there's just not a lot of power up there. This summer when I drive down to Arizona with the trailer I'll try to see how the engine break performances at high RPM in theory it should be really really good. the other thing I'm not super Keen about is GM has it set up to where under full throttle it doesn't like to lock the torque converter so you're losing a bunch of your power through the converter. (I had to park my trailer through about 8 in of unplowed snow and the converter was allowing the truck to stall at about 2500 rpm before the tires would finally break traction) I really think they should save the high RPM for sport mode. And have a short shift at around 3,000 RPM in normal mode. it's kind of hilarious because part throttle acceleration with the torque converter locked feels MUCH more powerful then full throttle.

but I also think that's part of the whole package with this engine, it will get up and go if you ask it to. but it doesn't necessarily encourage aggressive driving. It's much more of a part throttle torque builder versus a let's go and race somebody.

do note that it does have an oil-air separator built in and and slightly concerning it does use post-combustion injection in order to heat up the DPF to perform regens. however I will say that I've yet to have an oil dilution problem (common on Ford 6.0 and6.4 which both used post injection to Regen) but time will tell is I only have 2400 miles on it. Surprisingly for a diesel so far the engine oil still looks brand new.

I did not notice a drop in fuel economy when it was regening. this is likely due to the fact that they can be much more precise with the high-pressure injectors in the cylinder head vs. What most manufacturers use which is a low pressure injector inside the DPF and then they just sort of give it as much fuel as they think it needs to get it hot.

unless you're going to use the hill descent control I personally would not get a X31 truck. A/T tires are just a $200 upgrade. My issue with the X31 package is it doesn't really add that much to the truck. The shock package that they use on the x31 makes the truck feel worse than the chassis really is. (Both the custom 4.3 and LTZ 5.3 I've also driven were not z71s) as far as skid plates go, x31 upgrades the one that's underneath the front bumper to metal the normal 4x4 have a thick plastic one and then the only other skid plate is to the transfer case both of which you could easily add if you really wanted to. I just don't see a reason to justify the cost of that package. in fact on the road the normal 4X4 shocks actually feel better, are less floaty and are much more resistive to bottoming out the rear suspension on rough roads.

when everything works properly with the brakes the brakes are very good very progressive, give a lot of feedback, good bite.

The chassis is much better underneath all the electronics then most new trucks, there's still quite a lot of understeer built-in on slippery surfaces but it's very easy to balance the truck. the only thing is the roll stability control (non defeatable for obvious reasons) is a smidge more aggressive than I would like but I understand.

the traction control system at least in the scenarios I put it through in the snow (in auto) was very good about shuffling power between the right and the left front wheels I've heard that off road under Max articulation it's not so great. But it is yet to give me a problem. The g80 is just as abrupt as before but they do use the traction control the kind of limit how often it actually engages.

I love the fact that use incredibly long springs on the back and they have decided not to use blocks. that definitely limits axle wrap, it's still apparent, especially with the diesel in the way that it makes torque, but it's nowhere near as bad as some of the previous big torque Silverados.

I put about 7400 lb behind the LM2. it's squatted way too much (2 fingers from bump stop) and I had to shift the weight far back, now I didn't get an accurate tongue weight so take it with a grain of salt, but it's about as far back as I can shift the weight on that particular trailer before you start to get sway. Power was fine if unexceptional, (remember I am used to the 8.1/Allison combo) under full throttle again doesn't really like to lock a torque converter which led to some weird behaviors but overall it did very well. I had a note of MPG numbers but I seem to have lost it. It was respectable. Very stable. grade shifting could definitely be a lot more aggressive downhill, but you always have the ability to force downshifts with L so it's not the end of the world.


Before we get into the competitors. I would like to mention if you live in an area with lower speed limits I personally would look into a 3.0 Silverado LT with the off-road performance package because that's the only way to get 3.73 with the 10 speed. And then I would add the trail boss lift if that's something you were looking into. The 3.23 does okay offroad but I really wish they would have paired it with the 3.42. for instance I don't even get into 10th gear until I'm going at least 70 miles an hour. now if you're somewhere with an 80mph speed limit you will be very happy about the 3.23.


Before going to Chevy I owned a 2019 ram 1500 and my particular one was a complete lemon. The Chevy has much better suspension versus the ram (steel suspension) although I will say ram is in the league of its own with how you can customize their dashboard with the six different locations you can put your own custom gauges and the fact that they let you see everything. Such as oil temp! but it's ultimately an old chassis with a really pretty suit on. and their payload numbers show that.

I personally think I would have liked the Ford F-150 better. But the issue was the way that I was going to spec it was going to be about 10 grand more than the Chevy!

Ford still stuck in the dark ages of packaging items that you want, with a bunch of crap you don't, for way more than you want to spend. for instance if you want heated seats you have to have a $4,000 XLT premium package on top of your $35,000 truck. That also forces you to have the chrome package. I didn't really like that there diesel is very hard to find. And the fact that despite this massive covid issue right now in the market they still refused to offer any good incentives on their Lariat and models and higher.

I think one of my favorite things about Chevys they have doubled down on what made them good in the early 2000s. for instance if you want LED headlights on a Ford you have to buy a Lariat ultimate package. Pushing your starting price well over 60k. And Chevy it's standard on rst and higher. Chevy also has the option for $700 to add leather where is Ford again forces you all the way into a Lariat truck.

Ford has a couple of unicorns and it's stable such as if you want their maximum capability EcoBoost truck you have to get a truck that came from the factory with 20 inch wheels which up until their recent special edition offerings in their XL and XLT meant that you had to spend an obscene amount of money to have that capability.

But Chevy stepped right into the ring with Ford and one-upped them. Chevy rst double cab 4 x 4 Max tow 6.2. rated to tow 13,400 lb and has a payload of over 2,000. They top all that off with a gcwr 19100 lb.


You can't even get a gcwr in the 18000's from Ford if you spec a heavy payload package. hell it's impossible to get a heavy payload truck with heated seats. most of the max tow EcoBoost with 20 inch wheel trucks are rated with a payload capacity of around 1,400 lb. That means once you take 10% of your 12700 lb tow rating and put it as tongue weight you can't put anything else in your truck other than yourself.

to put it another way my 2003 Chevy 2500 extended cab short bed with the 8.1 liter engine Allison and 3.73s. what is rated to 13600 lb with a 12000 pound limit with weight distribution. 20k GCWR. The RST weighs 1000 pounds less in the 8.1 liter truck. Now factor in back in 2003 there was no SAE standardization for towing numbers. And suddenly you begin to see how big of a deal that really is.

The RST 6.2 Max tow is a return of the 1500 HD from Chevy. And you can spec it up and still have all that capability.

(in case you can't tell the RST 6.2 Max tow was originally what I was looking for)

If I had to do it again I would get a Chevrolet LT off-road performance package lm2. I have yet to decide if I want to roll the dice with GM's 2 inch lift or if I want to go to some of the more exotic products such as Icon or filthy Motorsports for my Lift.

since I already have a 33 inch tire and I already know I do not want to own another 6 inch lifted truck, I'm leaning more towards increasing stock performance with as minimal of lift as possible. The fuel tank and DEF tank are completely unprotected and are made out of plastic. With my long wheelbase I have a feeling I'm going to need to add some skid plates. I know I want to keep the factory rake since I will Max the payload out whenever I hook a trailer to it.

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