Pads and Rotors

sdeeter19555 · September 7, 2021

Ok, time for new pads and rotors. This is a 2012 2500hd.

I did Wagner Severe Weather rotors and Power Stop ZZ36 pads, the pads are awesome but the rotors not so much. The Wagner SW were supposed to eliminate the rust and scale that creeps onto the rotor face, these lasted about three years. I smoked them pretty bad tonight (trailer brakes didn't make connection and I was stopping about 10k pounds with the truck), they definitely have issues. Now, the truck did sit outside until recently, now it spends 99% of its time in a dry garage while I daily drive my w250.

So I'm looking at a complete Power Stop kit (they offer a corrosion-resistant coating) or the AC Delco Golds (these are slotted rotors with a coating). Cost is similar.

Thoughts on either? I see no reviews on the Delcos and widely varied reviews on the Power Stops. My gut is telling me to go with Delcos?

David89GMC · September 7, 2021

Go with a "Made in USA" brand. Don't buy safety equipment from China. Some Delco and Wagner parts are made in the USA. But be careful, as in the following story.

https://www.motorbiscuit.com/report-ac-delco-parts-labeled-made-in-usa-came-from-china/

So check the stamping on the part to verify.

I put Delco rotors and pads on my truck and they worked great. No warmup needed, not brake fade, and wear was as expected. Nothing gimmicky, just slightly better than factory stock.

PowerStops are made in China, so pass on those. Why would you want ceramic pads on a street vehicle?

Also, slotted and drilled rotors are subject to cracking and intended for racing. That means they get replaced often. They aren't necessary on a street vehicle or even a tow vehicle. They're just a gimmick to increase sales.

The coating on rotors wears off pretty quickly, it's really just there so you don't receive rusty rotors.

https://www.acdelco.com/content/acdelco/na/us/en/index/parts/brakes.html

Good luck on whatever you decide, and stay safe.

Grumpy Bear · September 7, 2021

From the last link above in David's post:

FEATURES & BENEFITS OE Direct Replacement

Made with Ferritic Nitro-Carburizing technology are hardened and strengthened during an extended manufacturing process.
The cast iron rotor surface is bonded with nitrogen atoms under the intense heat of a giant, 1,040-degree oven. The additional atom layer provides an extra defensive barrier against the corrosive threat of water, salt, and even acid rain.
Inspected for balance, helping with smooth brake operation and noise level

End Quote.

This is not a coating. This is a heat treatment and I know of no other brake rotor manufacture doing the Nitride Process. This process hardens, greatly improving wear resistance. Adds corrosion resistance that does not wear off like a coating. It in no way shape or form alters the friction coefficient nor does it make them brittle. Extra attention to balance is a plus, yes? This is as good as it gets for a cast iron rotor.

Every one has a favorite pad. I have no comment on that other than I like the pad GM put on my truck. OEM blue wrapper.

MORSNO · September 7, 2021

Another satisfied customer keeping stock/OEM rotors and pads. You know they'll fit right and the pads last forever, even when constantly carrying a heavy load.

sdeeter19555 · September 7, 2021

But that does nothing for the corrosion of the STOCK hardware (rotors, which is why I am here in the first place), so I'm forced to replace all four rotors and pads every few years? That gets pricey...I think it would be right around $600 for just parts.

CamGTP · September 8, 2021

Hey David89GMC just a FYI, tons of OEM's use Ceramic pads on new vehicles.

If you ask me, who cares where the parts are made. Come work in a parts store or in the tire industry and you'll be pleasantly surprised where things are engineered and then made. All those WIX filters everyone loves, not usually made in USA. More like China, Mexico, Ukraine, Brazil. Another example is rotors from many different places. The engineering in done by the USA but the plants that make them are from Mexico, China because it's cheaper. People would be dead broke if every last thing was built in the USA because I don't see my wage going up by 50-70% or more to cover that cost to pay for everything built here.

If you want my opinion on brakes. Either go with the OEM stuff or run the Ultra Premium Rotors from Napa. I've sold countless brake jobs to this heavy duty construction company that will work these trucks harder than just about any of the truck owners here. Talking fully loaded day in and day out, towing trailer all day everyday. The UP rotors are fully coated and hold up pretty well.

Edited September 8, 2021 by CamGTP

sdeeter19555 · September 8, 2021

Any idea on the price of the Napa rotors? Maybe those and the GM brake pads would be the way to go?

I was thinking the OE brakes are ceramic to be ductless? That comment above threw me for a loop...

CamGTP · September 8, 2021

I couldn't tell you off hand what the prices are. Where you live and if they are available kinda determines the prices. I would just look up your closest Napa store and check online or make a call. If you are with AAA you get a discount, Military gets a discount and if you order online and pick up in store there is usually a discount. Most are between 5 and 10% off.

Grumpy Bear · September 8, 2021

This is a 6.5 year old factory installed OEM Nitride rotor with 150K on it. Not a hint of rust or corrosion.

Not a mark or ridge to be found.

This truck sits outside 24/7/365. Northern Illinois.

Took the photo minutes ago.

sdeeter19555 · October 8, 2021

Well, I ordered AC Delco Pro coated rotors and their severe duty pads. Got all new soft parts and shims also...

Should be back 100% in a few weeks.

But first I got to pull the w250 apart, brakes are giving me fits too.

One disaster at a time.

smk1500 · October 14, 2021

Only ever had to replace one set of brakes on any of my vehicles, so my input of my own will be little. But working in the auto field the best ones ive found that arent factory are the napa ultra prem rotors and then akebono pads. Any other rotors i put on get surface rust overnight or a couple days and more so with rain/ high humidity. customers would come back with the cheaper ones complaining of the noise at first brake in the day but then go away. So from my end, factory or napa/akebono.

Grumpy Bear · October 15, 2021

I wonder if there is a published Brinell hardness for the NAPA UP. rotors. They sound interesting.

They coating/plating on the Power Stop rotors is provided to prevent rust during shipment and storage. It's off in 200 miles or less. If the NAPA UP don't get surface rust then they are also Nitride OR Nikasil

You think GM brakes are expensive? Watch this video and not the Stock Porsche cast iron brake parts cost. TWICE what I pay for GM blue wrapper Nitride/ceramic.

Edited October 15, 2021 by Grumpy Bear

smk1500 · October 15, 2021

12 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

I wonder if there is a published Brinell hardness for the NAPA UP. rotors. They sound interesting.

They coating/plating on the Power Stop rotors is provided to prevent rust during shipment and storage. It's off in 200 miles or less. If the NAPA UP don't get surface rust then they are also Nitride OR Nikasil

You think GM brakes are expensive? Watch this video and not the Stock Porsche cast iron brake parts cost. TWICE what I pay for GM blue wrapper Nitride/ceramic.

last year had a 2019 bummer in the shop, caliper siezed, quoted all new front brakes and both calipers, 6k, 4500 was our cost in just parts.

sdeeter19555 · October 24, 2021

Job is done, this is what I was replacing (see pictures). The front were the worst, the rear were not that bad. I may save these and have them cut in the event I need rotors again (doubtful). The old pads (Power Stop zz36) weren't bad, but I noticed (the idiot light popped) the pads were cut different. I know I put the pads in the correct location based on part numbers, but my guess is that someone switched boxes on me...had a smaller cut pad on the front (which would still not account for the rust issue), which was most likely a meant for the rear. Always stopped good, pads were still around 50%.

The new rotors are coated AC Delco Professional (with a China stamp) and pads were AC Delco Severe Duty. The pads are the same fore and aft, so no worries about a front/rear mixup.

Only one pin was partially seized, and it had been apart for a rear wheel seal at the dealer and they didn't get the rubber seal back in the caliper. Luckily, I had a pack of replacement pins from before.

Took some time to clean things up, got different brake pin grease this time (last goo swelled all the rubber pieces). Went together well, brake pedal effort is much reduced, stops well now.

Grumpy Bear · October 25, 2021

https://media.gm.com/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Nov/1130_fnc.html

https://www.wardsauto.com/technology/new-coating-keeps-gm-brake-rotors-rust-free

Since its introduction on a handful of models in 2008, the “rust-free rotors” have trimmed GM’s related warranty costs by 70%. The auto maker expects it to save customers $400 over a 10-year span by doubling the life of a rotor from 40,000 miles (64,000 km) to 80,000 miles (128,000 km).

Well now we know what the engineering lifetime of a rotor is. Pepper is currently at 151,000 on the original rotors. An other 9K and I've doubled that number.

Edited October 25, 2021 by Grumpy Bear