Sludge, Varnish, Soot & Ash

Grumpy Bear · June 12, 2023

Do Esters really keep things clean?

166,419 miles!

Red Line HP most of her life.

So, question.

How much further would I have to drive this motor before I could say YES, and anyone would believe it?

:idiot:

I've been getting the same results for 25 years.

Quarter million-mile Honda's looked the same.

For 25 years I listen to 'they changed it'.

I'm still waiting.

OnTheReel · June 13, 2023

5 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Do Esters really keep things clean?

166,419 miles!

Red Line HP most of her life.

So, question.

How much further would I have to drive this motor before I could say YES, and anyone would believe it?

I've been getting the same results for 25 years.

Quarter million-mile Honda's looked the same.

For 25 years I listen to 'they changed it'.

I'm still waiting.

That’s incredible. Literally like brand new.

Grumpy Bear · June 13, 2023

31 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

That’s incredible. Literally like brand new.

Every motor I've ever run this oil in looks like this. Every motor I run some shelf oil in looks like the one below.

This is a GM 3800 from BITOG at 165K and this is considered "normal'. Mileage is apples to apples.

[quote] It's my parent's NA 96 Bonneville w/165K. Car has had inconsistent oil changes its entire life, my parents have owned it since it had 50K I believe. I've used MaxLife, GTX, Pennzoil HM, MC5K. In between me visiting they have just taken it to a quickie change place, sometimes after about 5-7K on the oil. [End quote]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/valve-cover-off-gm-3800-with-165k.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Grumpy Bear

OnTheReel · June 13, 2023

20 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Every motor I've ever run this oil in looks like this. Every motor I run some shelf oil in looks like the one below.

This is a GM 3800 from BITOG at 165K and this is considered "normal'. Mileage is apples to apples.

[quote] It's my parent's NA 96 Bonneville w/165K. Car has had inconsistent oil changes its entire life, my parents have owned it since it had 50K I believe. I've used MaxLife, GTX, Pennzoil HM, MC5K. In between me visiting they have just taken it to a quickie change place, sometimes after about 5-7K on the oil. [End quote]

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/valve-cover-off-gm-3800-with-165k.

That could certainly use a strong dose of the HPL engine cleaner. But then again it’s a 3800 so it’ll probably run forever no matter what. They wouldn’t get away with that kind of poor maintenance on a newer GM (or anything really).

Grumpy Bear · June 13, 2023

31 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

They wouldn’t get away with that kind of poor maintenance on a newer GM (or anything really).

If the "THEY" you are speaking of is the OEM I'll disagree. IF THEY are owners...who knows. :crackup:

The environment oil lives in now is harsher than it was just a decade ago and the oil is 'less' than it was. Saying something is an improvement without regard to reference is laughable. The stress on the oil continues to increase and the add pack is being backed up. On the basis of just alkalinity, it's going backward.

I get the results in the 4.3 I got in my Honda's I4. Yes. But I had to cut my OCI by 30% to do it. :banghead:

Guy selling olives has a bright idea one day to take just one olive out of every jar. No one will notice and guess what, no one did but in improved his margin. Next year he takes out another olive and again no one noticed. After few more years he reduces the size of the bottle by reducing the diameter a bit making it hour shaped and advertised that it was a new 'easy to grasp' package. It also held 5 less olives in a package that looked the same size. Then he has a 'supply chain' issue and ups the price 30% and now he has doubled his profit, and no one noticed until the price increased. Price was the standard olive buyers focused on so never noticed the loss of product.

Same story with oil.

OnTheReel · June 13, 2023

43 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

If the "THEY" you are speaking of is the OEM I'll disagree. IF THEY are owners...who knows.

The environment oil lives in now is harsher than it was just a decade ago and the oil is 'less' than it was. Saying something is an improvement without regard to reference is laughable. The stress on the oil continues to increase and the add pack is being backed up. On the basis of just alkalinity, it's going backward.

I get the results in the 4.3 I got in my Honda's I4. Yes. But I had to cut my OCI by 30% to do it.

Guy selling olives has a bright idea one day to take just one olive out of every jar. No one will notice and guess what, no one did but in improved his margin. Next year he takes out another olive and again no one noticed. After few more years he reduces the size of the bottle by reducing the diameter a bit making it hour shaped and advertised that it was a new 'easy to grasp' package. It also held 5 less olives in a package that looked the same size. Then he has a 'supply chain' issue and ups the price 30% and now he has doubled his profit, and no one noticed until the price increased. Price was the standard olive buyers focused on so never noticed the loss of product.

Same story with oil.

Same story with just about everything these days. Hard to fight it or avoid it when everyone is trying to screw ya.

KARNUT · June 14, 2023

I don’t know if much has changed if you’re only trying to make 150K. Even the Terrain probably would have made it with oil usage. The dealer would have said there’s no problem it’s only a qt in 1 thousand miles. That’s acceptable. If following the extreme service gets me 200K I’m in. I got 3 on that schedule now. I’ve never been stranded with an under 150K attitude previously. So there’s that. It just seems decent cars have accelerated in costs. Every vehicle I have now the replacement cost new is 40K or more. CPO isn’t much better. I’m going for 200K.

Grumpy Bear · June 14, 2023

1 hour ago, KARNUT said:

I don’t know if much has changed if you’re only trying to make 150K.

Nothing. Correct. And if that was my goal then I wouldn't change oil at all, ever. Just keep adding till it dies. Thing is, I'm not about to buy a new car/truck/bike every 3 to 5 years just because everyone else is willing to. I'm Grumpy Bear. Not Sheepeople.

2 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

Same story with just about everything these days. Hard to fight it or avoid it when everyone is trying to screw ya.

You are right. It is hard. But not impossible. No one is porking anyone with the truth. Takes a lie to do that and someone willing to accept that lie. You fight that with reality. Reality is, you don't have to accept the lies, the cheating, or their monetary superiority. You do have to educate yourself with the truth and know what that looks like. Not what you are told it is.

We're veering off course here. I've shown, no PROVED, what can be done. I've also shown what most people accept as true or unavoidable is not. Use it, don't use it.... has zero impact on my equipment. Or even my willingness to share it.

I love the journey. The destination is where that ends up. Or not.....

Grumpy Bear · June 14, 2023

diyer2 · June 14, 2023

I say again, oil changes, cheap insurance. IMO!

Grumpy Bear · June 14, 2023

6 hours ago, diyer2 said:

I say again, oil changes, cheap insurance. IMO!

Did you notice in the video that he fails to notice the change in the oil control ring itself? :crackup:

Grumpy Bear · June 15, 2023

Had an eye opener today. I needed a part. That extension between the valve cover and filler cap. Tang broke off. So, I go to the 30 something parts guy at the dealership and give him my VIN and explain what part it is I need. Told him the part broke off and fell into the rocker area and that the cover was being replaced anyway and that I got a nice look inside of a motor with XYZ miles on it. I show him the photo.

His reply was, "Mine looked better than yours with 200K on the clock," the goes on to explain how he uses a quarter of a quart of ATF in every oil change and rambles on about the superior detergency of ATF. :nonod:

I actually looked at the photo again to see if I had the right picture up.

Yep. So, I ask how he could improve on "like new never been run". His reply?

"You'd have to see it. Much better than yours". Oh yea, he's dead serious.

As dad used to say, "First liar hasn't a chance". And yes, I said that out loud.

Someone, explain that to me. And people wonder why I'm so GRUMPY!

Edited June 15, 2023 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · June 21, 2023

OLM

If you know that ATF last 50K miles even under adverse conditions and yet motor oil last, per OLM, only 7.5K then you know that this difference is the result of the damage motor oil undergoes as the result of the assault of combustion gasses bypassing the rings. Good old blow by.

Question. You have two motors roll off the same assembly line one after the other. On testing one has a 5% leak down and the second 18%. In service the second uses oil at a rate of a quart in 1200 miles and the OEM says 'that's normal' and the first no usage is observed over the entire 7.5K OLM mandated OCI. Also, normal.?.?

In what world will their oil last the same number of miles, hours or months?

A motor uses no oil and has a low leak down for 60,000 miles. Then over time/miles it begins to use and leak down increases.... a lot. Will the condition of the oil remain constant because the OEM has programed the OLM to trigger at 7.5K miles?

If your motor deteriorates over the course of 80-150K miles to the point of needing replacement and you used 'their oil' and changed on 'their schedule' is that schedule and service working for the equipment's best interest? Is it working at all?

You good with this 'normal'? The OEM is!