Full sized EV pickup

[customboss]

3 hours ago, OnTheReel said:

Yeah, until the dealers get ahold of them. They aren’t even selling the regular rental car gasser ones at sticker, let alone that “hot commodity”.
 

At this rate, the poor won’t be able to afford an EV until it’s 10 years old and in need of a $20,000 battery. 

Poor? No one cares about the Poor, have you read Atlas Shrugged? 

[OnTheReel]

12 hours ago, customboss said:

Poor? No one cares about the Poor, have you read Atlas Shrugged? 

I own it. We live it.

[customboss]

Sadly inconsistent with US democracy.  This from a recovered Gary Johnson worker..... Cheers! 

[Z45]

Lots of dealers are going to be gone.  I was wondering why a local Cadi dealer of many many years no longer it one.  The accepted a GM buyout upwards of 1 million $.  Only selling less the 25 a year makes converting their business to sell and service EV's a loosing proposition. They would need to invest in infrastructure. training and parts/tools.  They say about 17% of the Cadillac dealers accepted the buyouts.  Now they are offering it to Buick Dealers.  Also;

 

 

[Grumpy Bear]

From the Cliff Notes of Atlas Shrugged: 

 

....... Atlas Shrugged was to provide a moral defense of capitalism, the editorial staff responded, "But that would mean challenging 3,000 years of Judeo-Christian tradition." Their depth of philosophical insight impressed Ayn Rand, and she decided that Random House was the company to publish her book.

 

 

What would happen if the scientists, medical researchers, inventors, industrialists, writers, artists, and so on withheld their minds and their achievements from the world?

 

In this novel, Rand argues that all human progress and prosperity depend on rational thinking. For example, human beings have cured such diseases as malaria, polio, dysentery, cholera, diphtheria, and tuberculosis. 

 

***********************************************************

 

The following is NOT a religious rant nor a political statement but a philosophical query: 

 

Matthew 15:9 reads New Living Translation

Their worship is a farce, for they teach man-made ideas as commands from God.’”

 

Other translations sometimes use the phrase "Traditions of men". 

 

These were the words of Christ when being questioned by those 'Judeo Leaders'. 

 

Both sides of this idea believe THIER idea is correct. The HUMAN IDEA. They claim to be Judeo-Christian while leaving Christ completely out of the discussion save in name. Something Christ condemned. 

 

1 Corinthians 2:16 Paul makes this observation: 

Amplified Bible
For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND and PURPOSES OF THE LORD, SO AS TO INSTRUCT HIM? But we have the mind of Christ [to be guided by His thoughts and purposes].

 

The Psalmist noted in 127:1 NKJV : Unless the LORD builds the house, They labor in vain who build it; Unless the LORD guards the city, The watchman stays awake in vain.

 

 Here's the query then;

 

Why do men believe that their WAY, SYSTEM, TRADTIONS are better than the one who created them?

How does one instruct from ignorance?

Which problem you can never hope to understand shall you fix?

Got a cure for cancer yet?

 

 

 

  

 

[Grumpy Bear]

22 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

For example, human beings have cured such diseases as malaria, polio, dysentery, cholera, diphtheria, and tuberculosis. 

 

Have you now? 

 

22 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Which problem you can never hope to understand shall you fix?

 

First you have to want to and then you need the ability. Humans have neither.....

 

https://www.lubesngreases.com/magazine/25_11/oleic-acid-boosts-biobased-oils/

Last line of this article":

 

Cost is the driver. It doesn't matter if you have the best product, you still have to sell it, said Adams.

 

**************************

 

There is nail struck squarely. It may have started as a search for the 'best' product but as with most human things ended with best 'profit margin'. 

 

What is the angle with EV? Climate is the tool being used to sell this but not the reason. Follow the money. Who profits most and who suffers most?

 

The people driving this buss know the cost of everything and the value of nothing. 

[diyer2]

No one can turn a molehill into a mountain like you Grumpy. 

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

No one can turn a molehill into a mountain like you Grumpy. 

 

I was young and naive once.

Then I learned that molehills are like the tips of icebergs.

They hide the big end.

 

 

I have no idea if EV is 'better' or worse but I do know that shareholders don't care.

 

Tetraethyllead (TEL) ring any bells? PFAS? Polychlorinated biphenyls (PCB's)? Chloroethane? Asbestos?

 

Shall I continue on profitable ideas that made fortunes and killed millions? Some were sure but most just lied.

 

How would I know the difference? Rats are in charge of the cheese. 

 

[diyer2]

I have said before we are a source of revenue, we are dispensable also. 

[Grumpy Bear]

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

I have said before we are a source of revenue, we are dispensable also. 

 

Dad calls it the "Bucket of Water Theory". Pull your hand out of bucket of water and see if you leave a hole.  

 

 

[diyer2]

Copied from an email I received. NO I didn't do any research. 

Don't know who wrote the following but this simple narrative vividly demonstrates the folly of "green energy" and the breathtaking ignorance of those championing it.

--‐---‐------------------------------------

 

What is a battery?

 

Tesla said it best when they called it an Energy Storage System. That's important!  They do not make electricity “they store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators”. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid.

 

Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, do you see?"

 

Einstein's formula, E=MC2, tells us it takes the same amount of energy to move a five-thousand-pound gasoline-driven automobile a mile as it does an electric one. The only question again is what produces the power? To reiterate, it does not come from the battery; the battery is only the  storage device, like a gas tank in a car.

 

There are two orders of batteries, rechargeable, and single-use. The most common single-use batteries are A, AA, AAA, C, D. 9V, and lantern types. Those dry-cell species use zinc, manganese, lithium, silver oxide, or zinc and carbon to store electricity chemically. Please note they all contain toxic, heavy metals.

 

Rechargeable batteries only differ in their internal materials, usually lithium-ion, nickel-metal oxide, and nickel-cadmium. The United States uses three billion of these two battery types a year, and most are not recycled; they end up in landfills. California is the only state which requires all  batteries to be recycled. If you throw your small, used batteries in the trash, here is what happens to them.

 

All batteries are self-discharging. That means even when not in use, they leak tiny amounts of energy. You have likely ruined a flashlight or two from an old, ruptured battery. When a battery runs down and can no longer power a toy or light, you think of it as dead; well, it is not. It continues to leak small amounts of electricity. As the chemicals inside it run out, pressure builds inside the battery's metal casing, and eventually, it cracks. The metals left inside then ooze out. The ooze in your ruined flashlight is toxic, and so is the ooze that will inevitably leak from every battery in a landfill. All batteries eventually rupture; it just takes rechargeable batteries longer to end up in the landfill.

 

In addition to dry cell batteries, there are also wet cell ones used in automobiles, boats, and motorcycles. The good thing about those is, ninety percent of them are recycled. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how to recycle single-use ones properly.

 

But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels. These three technologies share what we call “environmentally destructive embedded costs."

 

Everything manufactured has two costs associated with it, embedded costs and operating costs. I will explain embedded costs using a can of baked  beans as my subject.

 

In this scenario, baked beans are on sale, so you jump in your car and head for the grocery store. Sure enough, there they are on the shelf for $1.75 a can. As you head to the checkout, you begin to think about the embedded costs in the can of beans.

 

The first cost is the diesel fuel the farmer used to plow the field, till the ground, harvest the beans, and transport them to the food processor. Not only is his diesel fuel an embedded cost, so are the costs to build the tractors, combines, and trucks. In addition, the farmer might use a nitrogen fertilizer made from natural gas.

 

Next is the energy costs of cooking the beans, heating the building, transporting the workers, and paying for the vast amounts of electricity used to run the plant. The steel can holding the beans is also an embedded cost. Making the steel can requires mining taconite, shipping it by boat, extracting the iron, placing it in a coal-fired blast furnace, and adding carbon. Then it's back on another truck to take the beans to the grocery store. Finally, add in the cost of the gasoline for your car.

 

A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.

 

It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just - one - battery.

 

Sixty-eight percent of the world's cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as “part of the cost of driving an electric car?"

 

I'd like to leave you with these thoughts. California is building the largest battery in the world near San Francisco, and they intend to power it from solar panels and windmills. They claim this is the ultimate in being 'green,' but it is not! This construction project is creating an environmental disaster. Let me tell you why.

 

The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.

 

Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades. Sadly, both solar arrays and windmills kill birds, bats, sea life, and migratory insects.

 

There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions. I predict EVs and windmills will be abandoned once the embedded environmental costs of making and replacing them become apparent. "Going Green" may sound like the Utopian ideal and are easily espoused, catchy buzz words, but when you look at the hidden and embedded  costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth's environment than meets the eye, for sure.

 

Food for thought!

[customboss]

1 hour ago, diyer2 said:

Copied from an email I received. NO I didn't do any research. 

Don't know who wrote the following but this simple narrative vividly demonstrates the folly of "green energy" and the breathtaking ignorance of those championing it.

--‐---‐------------------------------------

 

What is a battery?

 

Tesla said it best when they called it an Energy Storage System. That's important!  They do not make electricity “they store electricity produced elsewhere, primarily by coal, uranium, natural gas-powered plants, or diesel-fueled generators”. So, to say an EV is a zero-emission vehicle is not at all valid.

 

Also, since forty percent of the electricity generated in the U.S. is from coal-fired plants, it follows that forty percent of the EVs on the road are coal-powered, do you see?"

 

Einstein's formula, E=MC2, tells us it takes the same amount of energy to move a five-thousand-pound gasoline-driven automobile a mile as it does an electric one. The only question again is what produces the power? To reiterate, it does not come from the battery; the battery is only the  storage device, like a gas tank in a car.

 

There are two orders of batteries, rechargeable, and single-use. The most common single-use batteries are A, AA, AAA, C, D. 9V, and lantern types. Those dry-cell species use zinc, manganese, lithium, silver oxide, or zinc and carbon to store electricity chemically. Please note they all contain toxic, heavy metals.

 

Rechargeable batteries only differ in their internal materials, usually lithium-ion, nickel-metal oxide, and nickel-cadmium. The United States uses three billion of these two battery types a year, and most are not recycled; they end up in landfills. California is the only state which requires all  batteries to be recycled. If you throw your small, used batteries in the trash, here is what happens to them.

 

All batteries are self-discharging. That means even when not in use, they leak tiny amounts of energy. You have likely ruined a flashlight or two from an old, ruptured battery. When a battery runs down and can no longer power a toy or light, you think of it as dead; well, it is not. It continues to leak small amounts of electricity. As the chemicals inside it run out, pressure builds inside the battery's metal casing, and eventually, it cracks. The metals left inside then ooze out. The ooze in your ruined flashlight is toxic, and so is the ooze that will inevitably leak from every battery in a landfill. All batteries eventually rupture; it just takes rechargeable batteries longer to end up in the landfill.

 

In addition to dry cell batteries, there are also wet cell ones used in automobiles, boats, and motorcycles. The good thing about those is, ninety percent of them are recycled. Unfortunately, we do not yet know how to recycle single-use ones properly.

 

But that is not half of it. For those of you excited about electric cars and a green revolution, I want you to take a closer look at batteries and also windmills and solar panels. These three technologies share what we call “environmentally destructive embedded costs."

 

Everything manufactured has two costs associated with it, embedded costs and operating costs. I will explain embedded costs using a can of baked  beans as my subject.

 

In this scenario, baked beans are on sale, so you jump in your car and head for the grocery store. Sure enough, there they are on the shelf for $1.75 a can. As you head to the checkout, you begin to think about the embedded costs in the can of beans.

 

The first cost is the diesel fuel the farmer used to plow the field, till the ground, harvest the beans, and transport them to the food processor. Not only is his diesel fuel an embedded cost, so are the costs to build the tractors, combines, and trucks. In addition, the farmer might use a nitrogen fertilizer made from natural gas.

 

Next is the energy costs of cooking the beans, heating the building, transporting the workers, and paying for the vast amounts of electricity used to run the plant. The steel can holding the beans is also an embedded cost. Making the steel can requires mining taconite, shipping it by boat, extracting the iron, placing it in a coal-fired blast furnace, and adding carbon. Then it's back on another truck to take the beans to the grocery store. Finally, add in the cost of the gasoline for your car.

 

A typical EV battery weighs one thousand pounds, about the size of a travel trunk. It contains twenty-five pounds of lithium, sixty pounds of nickel, 44 pounds of manganese, 30 pounds cobalt, 200 pounds of copper, and 400 pounds of aluminum, steel, and plastic. Inside are over 6,000 individual lithium-ion cells.

 

It should concern you that all those toxic components come from mining. For instance, to manufacture each EV auto battery, you must process 25,000 pounds of brine for the lithium, 30,000 pounds of ore for the cobalt, 5,000 pounds of ore for the nickel, and 25,000 pounds of ore for copper. All told, you dig up 500,000 pounds of the earth's crust for just - one - battery.

 

Sixty-eight percent of the world's cobalt, a significant part of a battery, comes from the Congo. Their mines have no pollution controls, and they employ children who die from handling this toxic material. Should we factor in these diseased kids as “part of the cost of driving an electric car?"

 

I'd like to leave you with these thoughts. California is building the largest battery in the world near San Francisco, and they intend to power it from solar panels and windmills. They claim this is the ultimate in being 'green,' but it is not! This construction project is creating an environmental disaster. Let me tell you why.

 

The main problem with solar arrays is the chemicals needed to process silicate into the silicon used in the panels. To make pure enough silicon requires processing it with hydrochloric acid, sulfuric acid, nitric acid, hydrogen fluoride, trichloroethane, and acetone. In addition, they also need gallium, arsenide, copper-indium-gallium- diselenide, and cadmium-telluride, which also are highly toxic. Silicon dust is a hazard to the workers, and the panels cannot be recycled.

 

Windmills are the ultimate in embedded costs and environmental destruction. Each weighs 1688 tons (the equivalent of 23 houses) and contains 1300 tons of concrete, 295 tons of steel, 48 tons of iron, 24 tons of fiberglass, and the hard to extract rare earths neodymium, praseodymium, and dysprosium. Each blade weighs 81,000 pounds and will last 15 to 20 years, at which time it must be replaced. We cannot recycle used blades. Sadly, both solar arrays and windmills kill birds, bats, sea life, and migratory insects.

 

There may be a place for these technologies, but you must look beyond the myth of zero emissions. I predict EVs and windmills will be abandoned once the embedded environmental costs of making and replacing them become apparent. "Going Green" may sound like the Utopian ideal and are easily espoused, catchy buzz words, but when you look at the hidden and embedded  costs realistically with an open mind, you can see that Going Green is more destructive to the Earth's environment than meets the eye, for sure.

 

Food for thought!

Why Cummins and others are working on hydrogen nebulizers so on board electric making is done with very little storage need. Like a IC engine you make the energy as its demanded. Not store it with 2000- 3000 lb Duracell's. 

 

The author misses the point that GHG heating effect is already causing misery and cost. So stopping production of those gases will slow or stop the heating we as humans have caused.  Burning of fossil fuels or any fuel that produces GHG emissions won't help no matter how efficient. 

 

Heat can't be reduced by burning more of anything.  Hard fact I had to accept as an engineer of a IC engine OEM. 

 

 

Edited September 22, 2022 by customboss

[KARNUT]

I’ll believe in man made global warming when our leaders past and present sell their million dollar real estate's next to the bay’s and oceans. Or instead of installing super sized propane tanks to power their backup generator. They have windmills and solar panels doing the job. Parking the private jets or at least jet pooling at the least to lower their carbon ft print. The good for thee not for me doesn’t sit well with me. I’m a simple man. The hysteria they profess doesn’t fit the optics they project. Man made global warming, please.

Edited September 23, 2022 by KARNUT