Some Assembly is Required

Atlas · May 18

I always thought the moment people become too old and stupid for their own good is when they decide to stop learning from those around them, including younger generations. The moment someone thinks they know better simply because of their age is the exact moment they've lost the spirit of learning.

asilverblazer · May 18

12 minutes ago, Atlas said:

I always thought the moment people become too old and stupid for their own good is when they decide to stop learning from those around them, including younger generations. The moment someone thinks they know better simply because of their age is the exact moment they've lost the spirit of learning.

Agreed.

My way may work for me, my circumstances, my lifestyle, my needs, my wants, my goals, etc.

That doesn't make it right for someone else, with completely different circumstances, lifestyle, needs, wants, goals.

KARNUT · May 18

Twelve years ago my daughter had divorce number two. She moved in with us for awhile shortly moving to an apartment with three bedrooms. When the lease was coming to an end she asked our advice in a home purchase. Using her lease payment as a guide we found a two story home being built outside of town with growing population. We had them finish the garage. She bought the house right at lease payments including taxes and insurance. The area has exploded giving her tremendous equity already. She’s almost fifty making life retirement decisions in play. Two of her kids are in their mid twenties the third is turning fourteen. If she doesn’t find a new mate in five years I’m going to offer her a job in assisting us in our older age something she has mentioned in the past. Her kids will be grown she can downsize or move in with us with a giant nest egg. My other two are very well off and happily married. My daughter will not only help us but improve her inheritance keeping us out of assisted living as long as possible. Those places are expensive. If she does find a new mate. That of course is preferable. We have additional plans as needed.

Atlas · May 18

2 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I call it life lessons. Or you could just go to Starbucks and buy 5$ coffee and wonder why you can’t save money. I mean this generally. If I wanted to pick on anyone it would be Atlas. You know the guy who tells me my life sucks in Texas. While he pays close to twice as much for gas. Probably twice the taxes and all the rich people are leaving and becoming my neighbors. I meet them on my walks almost daily. My wife runs into them at the pool. But let’s tell him it sucks here.

Paying 70% more for gas or more in taxes overall doesn't change my plans. I don't know if your life sucks? ..but I definitely don't want to live in Texas so long as I have a choice.

Living as cheaply as possible or moving to the lowest cost of living isn't my goal.

KARNUT · May 18

10 minutes ago, Atlas said:

Paying 70% more for gas or more in taxes overall doesn't change my plans. I don't know if your life sucks? ..but I definitely don't want to live in Texas so long as I have a choice.

Living as cheaply as possible or moving to the lowest cost of living isn't my goal.

Funny you look at Texas as a down grade. My business afforded me travel all over the U.S. mostly training operators after purchasing our equipment. I owned property in NJ, Texas and South Carolina. Rented in Ohio, Oklahoma, California and Kansas. I left no stone unturned. Lived in a camper in some others. I’m where I want to be.

Atlas · May 18

8 minutes ago, KARNUT said:

Funny you look at Texas as a down grade. My business afforded me travel all over the U.S. mostly training operators after purchasing our equipment. I owned property in NJ, Texas and South Carolina. Rented in Ohio, Oklahoma, California and Kansas. I left no stone unturned. Lived in a camper in some others. I’m where I want to be.

As long as you're happy, right? I think that's what this thread is getting at.

Grumpy Bear · May 18

4 hours ago, KARNUT said:

I always thought life lessons were best given from people who had a life.

Love that.

5 hours ago, asilverblazer said:

Is this a conversation or a lecture? I must be confused because I thought it was the first.

Yep, you're confused. Wait, what were we talking about? I do both. Depends ..... Are we talking about immutable facts or personal viewpoints?

4 hours ago, asilverblazer said:

Nobody is denying anybody anything. There are multiple points of view being expressed, none are more valuable than the others. Questioning somebody's point of view (as tactfully as possible) to better understand their reasoning while also presenting another point of view is a pretty straight forward way of exploring a topic. If you don't want to respectfully engage, questions or challenges to your point of view a blog is probably more appropriate than a FORUM.

Value. Hummm Person A says 2 + 2 = 4. Person B says 2 + 2 = Green. Which is more valuable? Which is true? Which one is a fact. Even the second contains a few facts but.....it ain't true and it has no value. I won't debate it or entertain a debate.

Should have stopped at the end of purple. That statement would show wisdom. Even if the person was wrong at least you would understand them better. That so an intelligent reply based on that NEW understanding stands a chance of being accepted or at least politely heard.

The OP, me, Started a thread named "Some Assembly Required". While my house (thread) is sitting on Government property (GM-Trucks Forum) guest are still guests. And a guest shouldn't be so rude as to rearrange the furniture in someone else's house. I know manors are not a thing anymore and critical thinking is becoming a lost art but......

Now that said I know I have no power to make anyone anything and since I don't; what I do have is the IGNORE button feature. I find it is a quick way to determine if a person is interested in an honest exchange to each others mutual benefit or just some junkyard dog looking for a fight.

Edited May 18 by Grumpy Bear

asilverblazer · May 18

9 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

...an honest exchange to each others mutual benefit or just some junkyard dog looking for a fight.

My intent was clear.

asilverblazer · May 18

13 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Value. Hummm Person A says 2 + 2 = 4. Person B says 2 + 2 = Green. Which is more valuable? Which is true? Which one is a fact. Even the second contains a few facts but.....it ain't true and it has no value. I won't debate it or entertain a debate.

Nothing I said was untrue and the value to you of other people's opinions DOES NOT dictate the VALUE to OTHERS.

To the topic at hand, I readily acknowledged the value of your method, especially regarding your vehicle ownership choices. That value isn't the same when the circumstances are fundamentally changed.

Grumpy Bear · May 18

31 minutes ago, asilverblazer said:

Nothing I said was untrue and the value to you of other people's opinions DOES NOT dictate the VALUE to OTHERS.

To the topic at hand, I readily acknowledged the value of your method, especially regarding your vehicle ownership choices. That value isn't the same when the circumstances are fundamentally changed.

Honestly I had to go back a few pages to refresh my memory on what we were talking about.

If I catch the drift I posted on a Eureka moment I had over a long detailed process I used to FIND an appropriate OCI.

Now as you missed about 90% of the journey you also missed a key statement I used repeatedly.

"I protect the equipment, not the warranty"

That statement delivers the intent of my work. ROI was never a consideration and with a purpose. ROI takes care of itself in THAT context. I even acknowledged a "Standard" that one must set to gauge the value of ROI.

You'd like to argue the standard but the post wasn't about the ROI or the standard. Ya rearranged the furniture to make YOUR point, a point not on POINT.

But now that you put a fork in it lets go there....

@KARNUT and his family for generations ran, developed and sold ROW equipment. In that world, and Stan will correct me if I error, machines make money and down time doesn't; so maintenance is a balance between a machine life and the money spent on maintenance AND the money the machine makes over that life. That is HIS Standard and as I am not his bookkeeper I have no idea what VALUES he has plugged into his process but he does have a DATA driven process and it included UOA labs and it works for him and he has adopted that process, more or less, to his personal fleet now that he is retired. He is very successful. (How did I do Stan?)

Pepper doesn't make money. It spends money even sitting still. I've driven a few million miles in 72 years so I WILL wear a few out. The question is, How Many? What do the replacements cost vs the cost of meticulous maintenance of the current unit. I broke down about a decade ago, on this forum, the total life cost of a $25K truck and it was substantial. Vehicles are black holes for cash. But no matter how that cake was sliced that cost cost of ownership exceeded by multiples of hundreds the cost of doubling the life of it's replacement which now cost 2X that price and will double again in another 10 years. I can buy allot of boutique oils, filters, oil tests, PPF and so on for $100K per unit and I've managed over a lifetime to buy about a third of what others typically do. It's the only benchmark there is.

So you are correct. My process is not relevant to Stans Business and his process isn't relevant to my familys personal budget.

You want to discus another standard then make that INTENT clear. But that wasn't the topic under review. Understand? It wasn't untrue, it also was not on point.

KARNUT · May 18

7 minutes ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Honestly I had to go back a few pages to refresh my memory on what we were talking about.

If I catch the drift I posted on a Eureka moment I had over a long detailed process I used to FIND an appropriate OCI.

Now as you missed about 90% of the journey you also missed a key statement I used repeatedly.

"I protect the equipment, not the warranty"

That statement delivers the intent of my work. ROI was never a consideration and with a purpose. ROI takes care of itself in THAT context. I even acknowledged a "Standard" that one must set to gauge the value of ROI.

You'd like to argue the standard but the post wasn't about the ROI or the standard. Ya rearranged the furniture to make YOUR point, a point not on POINT.

But now that you put a fork in it lets go there....

@KARNUT and his family for generations ran, developed and sold ROW equipment. In that world, and Stan will correct me if I error, machines make money and down time doesn't; so maintenance is a balance between a machine life and the money spent on maintenance AND the money the machine makes over that life. That is HIS Standard and as I am not his bookkeeper I have no idea what VALUES he has plugged into his process but he does have a DATA driven process and it included UOA labs and it works for him and he has adopted that process, more or less, to his personal fleet now that he is retired. He is very successful. (How did I do Stan?)

Pepper doesn't make money. It spends money even sitting still. I've driven a few million miles in 72 years so I WILL wear a few out. The question is, How Many? What do the replacements cost vs the cost of meticulous maintenance of the current unit. I broke down about a decade ago, on this forum, the total life cost of a $25K truck and it was substantial. Vehicles are black holes for cash. But no matter how that cake was sliced that cost cost of ownership exceeded by multiples of hundreds the cost of doubling the life of it's replacement which now cost 2X that price and will double again in another 10 years. I can buy allot of boutique oils, filters, oil tests, PPF and so on for $100K per unit and I've managed over a lifetime to buy about a third of what others typically do. It's the only benchmark there is.

So you are correct. My process is not relevant to Stans Business and his process isn't relevant to my familys personal budget.

You want to discus another standard then make that INTENT clear. But that wasn't the topic under review. Understand? It wasn't untrue, it also was not on point.

Nailed it.

KARNUT · May 19

I’ve only recently 10 years have tried to get the most use out of a vehicle. My wife on the other hand has always done that. I’m a vehicle addict. Never satisfied until recently. A minivan a midsize truck seems to be the ticket. Replacing those only with another only when the others die. It helps that my wife has a sports sedan and a sports car. There’s no reason to change. I still look every day. A good buy who knows.

Grumpy Bear · May 19

Intentionally Unassembled

(Lecture)

Root causes persist because they 1.) Benefit someone with enough power to prevent their elimination. 2.) Were created in ignorance or miscalculation that embarrasses someone with enough power to prevent their elimination. 3.) Are so deeply woven into the fabric that elimination dismantles the existence of that entity. In any and every case someone is rewarded for keeping that problem in place and perhaps even benefiting from the workarounds as well and many will suffer for it.

The result is that any action to Assemble a Corrective Plan is Intentionally left Unassembled.

Edited May 19 by Grumpy Bear

Grumpy Bear · May 19

Well Assembled

US woman purchased lifetime warranties on all her 1964 Mercury Comet's parts so she could keep it running at over 500,000 miles for free

Same owner, SAME ENGINE.

Edited May 19 by Grumpy Bear

asilverblazer · May 19

My responses are specific to your post in this thread.

On 5/11/2026 at 12:00 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

Assembly of an OCI

As it turns out, the correct OCI isn't a number of miles nor a length of time that can be standardized for every vehicle in every environment under every circumstance for the entire service life of said vehicle. There a tons of drivers/inputs to a result and the OEM blanket statement printed values are a median value that supports their required result. It has nothing to do with maximizing machine life OR your costs in providing transportation for your family. There is zero support that the commercial quick-lube industry fares any better. Their values are also self serving. Are you really that surprised?

And then there are the internet based results. Some even from very reputable people that at the end of day reflect, in large part, an idea that there is a 'standard'. Why? A lazy public; that's my best guess. People like their ears tickled. Even experts will relent.

"I demand validation and standardization. I need a place to hang my hat!" (Other than data which is costly, time consuming and irritating to obtain.) They chant like a mantra.

Along the way I learned more about people than I did the equipment. But then, I did learn allot about the equipment in spite of all the distractions. People are quite happy to be boiled in oil (pun intended) as long as it takes a long enough period of time before being driven to the inevitable failures that will result. There's even a name for it. ROI.

ROI, it's a blunt tool for a complex problem and relies heavy in the lie there is a standard.

I have the good fortune of not being the only guy on the planet that is data retentive. I have several units maintained by others with excellent record keeping and multiples of miles past mine on the odometer with several of those postmortem disassembles to proof the puddings their habits produced. I have mentioned....I don't guess and I don't follow the Rat-Catcher of Hamelin's piping.

I found mine, lets others follow my every move toward that goal. My reward? The health of my equipment.

I've added bold highlights where I have responded with counter points or agreements. We both agree that there are innumerable circumstances used to determine vehicle maintenance (I am generalizing a little further from your statement specific to oil changes, but at my own risk I am assuming you view other vehicle maintenance just as critically.)

Without going back and re-reading everything I am clarifying how I am interpreting your use of the term 'standard' related to maintenance. Standard generally means following the published manufacturers recommendations.

I'll gloss over calling the 'public' lazy - and that that group potentially includes myself.

Continuing the idea that ROI is a "blunt tool", in this context I am using it to mean that some value should be extracted from the "costly, time consuming and irritating" methods being used to obtain that value.

Quote

To a dealer its worth book. To a buyer who doesn't know her or I, it's worth high book.

That is the specific value that I will see when getting rid of a current vehicle, as I noted, there are literally millions more people who choose to not keep vehicles as long as you do, they too, may only see that same increase in value.

My experience selling many personal cars, no one has asked for maintenance records, what kind of oil I use, how often I change it, what viscosity, oil lab results, etc.

Apparently, it wasn't worth anything to those buyers either.

I also made a slightly off-topic comment that enjoying my vehicles has 'value' to me and because of that I may choose to not keep a vehicle as long, that again, makes the "costly, time consuming and irritating" maintenance methods used less valuable. Considering the amount of other people that change their vehicles out of want vs. need, they too will not benefit from the value like you have. You call it inefficient, I call it enjoying what you work hard for.

I also pointed out several other circumstances that might result in never seeing the value you have "I've bought 3 saving the cost of 6 new units. There's my ROI" a vehicles life can be ended prematurely for more innumerable reasons, some of which I have experienced. Crashes, acts of god, manufacturing defects, that no OCI strategy could mitigate.

I'll ignore you likening me to a cartoon character generally regarded as a low IQ.

Again, nobody is denying anyone anything, or saying "the correct OCI isn't a number of miles nor a length of time that can be standardized for every vehicle in every environment under every circumstance for the entire service life of said vehicle." is incorrect.

My point is: The standard (defined above), despite it flaws, works for literally millions of people, millions of vehicles, millions of times. Changing my methods and spending more time, money and effort for NO TANGIBLE benefit, is "inefficient", others with similar circumstances might agree.