Dyno testing Amsoil against other oils.

[customboss]

21 minutes ago, OnTheReel said:

Not grasping at anything. His results certainly don’t invalidate what I’ve already observed in real life, so why would I care?
 

Some things in the video don’t pass the smell test, that’s all. Unfortunately your skepticism of LSJr suddenly disappears when his test makes Red Line look bad.

I’m trying to help him or did you miss that. He’s still trying like Grumpy. 

[customboss]

18 minutes ago, Black02Silverado said:

Did I miss it or did they install a new cam for this test and break it in first?

They build a new engine on this block and heads. For each test. Every wearable part is replaced. Then run in on break in lube. Then flushed and the testing begins. 

[customboss]

18 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

You are saying these hard glass films adhering to the metallic substrates can be washed off by an oil change like blowing feathers of a table with a leaf blower. T

What hard glass films? You really don’t understand additive take up or reactions on moving parts. 
 

 

[customboss]

On 12/9/2025 at 4:08 PM, OnTheReel said:

Good theory Grump. I just took all my questions to the man himself directly. Still had his contact info since we were talking about a sample he ran for me a few months back. 
 

Edit: just got an out of office until the 15th reply. PRI trade show. 

Let us know what he tells you. 

[Grumpy Bear]

On 12/9/2025 at 3:09 PM, Grumpy Bear said:

OntheStribeckcurve.pdf 1.06 MB · 4 downloads

 

Recent Developments in Wear Prevention, Friction and Lubrication, 2010: 263-278
ISBN: 978-81-308-0377-7 Editor: George K. Nikas
7. On the Stribeck curve
Michael M. Khonsari and E. Richard Booser
Dow Chemical Endowed Chair in Rotating Machinery, Louisiana State University,
Department of Mechanical Engineering, Baton Rouge, LA 70803, USA;
Engineering Consultant, Vero Beach, FL 32966, USA

 

This paper is hands down he best work I've yet to read. It's a long read, sixteen pages, and there is a ton of difficult math imbedded but as daunting as that seems, it isn't. The read is easy and quite understandable. 

 

This is what "Useful, Reliable, Accurate Information" easy to understand looks like.

 

I am grateful to the authors to learn I have an very accurate understanding. I hope the most interested among us will enjoy this read as much as I did. 

 

5.2. Wear and wear-in

 

As more-and-more load is carried by metallic surface asperities at slowing speeds in the mixed lubrication zone, a proportionate increase is to be expected in wear rate. If design constraints permit, this deleterious effect can be reduced by applying higher lubricant viscosity, reducing contact unit load, or increasing rotation speed to lower the lift-off point. Use of antiwear and extreme-pressure lubricants may also reduce wear by forming protective surface layers on bearings.

Despite the general difficulty and uncertainty in predicting wear rates of asperity contacts, Maru and Tanaka [27] have demonstrated some relation of wear coefficients with friction coefficients, particularly in the beginning stages of the mixed-film regime.

Initial wear-in at mild operating conditions can provide a limited smoothing of the finish of both bearing and shaft surfaces. As shown in Fig. 5, this useful action moves the lift-off speed and the mixed lubrication region in the Stribeck curve to the left to reduce, or even possibly eliminate, the support needed from
Michael M. Khonsari & E. Richard Booser 276

contact of solid asperities [24]. Grease lubrication and some adhering oil-additive films produce a similar effect in lowering the lift-off speed.
 

***************************************

 

Lee ya loose me and any thinking man when you try to tell us this isn't true anymore. Power density is up. Speeds are down and both viscosity and AW are being sent lower. Universal law doesn't change. Attitudes about it do. OEM and guys like you are not just willing to increase wear you are demanding we accept it and pay for it while the design world tried to defy LAW. 

 

 

[customboss]

4 hours ago, Grumpy Bear said:

Lee ya loose me and any thinking man when you try to tell us this isn't true anymore. Power density is up. Speeds are down and both viscosity and AW are being sent lower. Universal law doesn't change. Attitudes about it do. OEM and guys like you are not just willing to increase wear you are demanding we accept it and pay for it while the design world tried to defy LAW. 

You are a sore LOSER. You also have never run engine dyno tests comparing different engine oils to each other. You also post total nuts comments. Merry Xmas.  

[Chuck FB]

I was wondering what thoughts there might be in regards to these engine designs and material types used, as well as crank shaft bearing size and number of main bearings designed into an engine platform that in any way correlate to the engine crank bearing failures.

 

- The blocks for the most part are aluminum I believe that are having the high bearing failure rates.

- High hp and torque engines

- Some having a turbo which relates to the high torque at low engine speed capability which relates to the Stribeck curve.

- Fewer main bearings in the case of the Tundra four cylinder turbo engine to support that load on the limited bearing surface. 

- Bearing size in diameter or width with a question mark as I don't know their size but how their size may relate to the amount of power/torque the engine can put out for that limited area and again Stribeck curve. 

- Aluminum block, does it have a lower threshold to the point in which it could twist causing crank bore misalignment.

- Aluminum block again, expansion rate or heat cycles relative to loosing clamp tension on bearings allowing main bearings to turn. 

 

- Not specifically related to an aluminum engine but a high hp/torque engine at relatively low engine rpm in the case of a turbo enhancement and the viscosity of the oil chosen but also the break down sheer and heat the oil is subjected to and how that may shift the oil on the Stribeck curve and put a engine into a danger zone with over stressed oil the longer the OCI 

 

 

[customboss]

Just now, Chuck FB said:

I was wondering what thoughts there might be in regards to these engine designs and material types used, as well as crank shaft bearing size and number of main bearings designed into an engine platform that in any way correlate to the engine crank bearing failures.

 

- The blocks for the most part are aluminum I believe that are having the high bearing failure rates.

- High hp and torque engines

- Some having a turbo which relates to the high torque at low engine speed capability which relates to the Stribeck curve.

- Fewer main bearings in the case of the Tundra four cylinder turbo engine to support that load on the limited bearing surface. 

- Bearing size in diameter or width with a question mark as I don't know their size but how their size may relate to the amount of power/torque the engine can put out for that limited area and again Stribeck curve. 

- Aluminum block, does it have a lower threshold to the point in which it could twist causing crank bore misalignment.

- Aluminum block again, expansion rate or heat cycles relative to loosing clamp tension on bearings allowing main bearings to turn. 

 

- Not specifically related to an aluminum engine but a high hp/torque engine at relatively low engine rpm in the case of a turbo enhancement and the viscosity of the oil chosen but also the break down sheer and heat the oil is subjected to and how that may shift the oil on the Stribeck curve and put a engine into a danger zone with over stressed oil the longer the OCI 

 

 

Chuck the SBC test was to show chemistry differences between these higher end oils not an engine test. 
 

Stribeck curve is theoretical calculation for formulators to use to build chemistries.
 

Remember this was an oil comparison. Not a theoretical engine test.
 

 

[Chuck FB]

3 minutes ago, customboss said:

Chuck the SBC test was to show chemistry differences between these higher end oils not an engine test. 
 

Stribeck curve is theoretical calculation for formulators to use to build chemistries.
 

Remember this was an oil comparison. Not a theoretical engine test.
 

 

 

I will admit my thoughts did not align well to the actual video nor were they meant to as I strayed LOL, it was just a thought based on engine material and power output and oil viscosity which also would or could lean into the chemistry of the oil as per its bearing protective properties or lack of depending on the oil being utilized. 

 

In saying that as Grumpy Bear pointed to the differences in chemistry of the various oils tested in that video, is it possible that in an actual real world scenario of an engines use that the oils tested and their relative perceived ranking, could look somewhat different when used in that turbo engine that is turning at relatively low rpm in a high gear and loaded down if driving relatively fast down the freeway hour after hour with a pickup that is not exactly aerodynamic and does require a fair demand from the engine to sustain that pace. Not to claim that would be the outcome but for example the oil with the somewhat higher viscosity and/or the higher level of some anti wear ( not anti friction necessarily ) additives that may help protect the bearing surfaces through the cold start cycles and off idle jack rabbit launches from the lights. A very different engine rpm loading scenario and use than the SBC that puts out its power at high rpm and wear metals being generated from a soft flat tappet cam which these newer engines don't have that type of flat tappet loading. 

 

Put another way yet, how much do some of the test results based off of short term engine dyno runs corollate to the use the average vehicles engine actually experiences through its life. Of course some of the test results shown were lab stress tests not related to this dyno test, just standardized tests used to test oil viscosity break down and so forth. After all there must be a reason why oil manufactures test oil in their planned application and be that a highway tractor for long term evaluation or passenger vehicles to prove what was lab tested and formulated, does actually work outside of the lab. 

[Atlas]

You know what's great about EV's?

 

Nobody argues about stupid **** like which oil to use. Not that the chemistry behind oil and additives isn't important, but eliminating a conventional combustion engine and hydraulic transmission really does reduce the complexity (and related arguing).

[Chuck FB]

6 minutes ago, Atlas said:

You know what's great about EV's?

 

Nobody argues about stupid **** like which oil to use. Not that the chemistry behind oil and additives isn't important, but eliminating a conventional combustion engine and hydraulic transmission really does reduce the complexity (and related arguing).

 

There is an amusing irony to your comment, that if it were not for the many ice engines that build and work in the mines that produce the minerals for not only the batteries chemistry but the steel and aluminum and don't forget the plastics and tires that are made from petroleum products and the ice trucks that haul the raw materials to processing and the finished products to the factory that builds the EV's and the ice trucks that transport the EV's to the dealerships and all the ice equipment involved with creating the electric grid that allows locations for an EV to charge, there would be no EV's. And although it may seem like a small thing, if the greases and oils of todays quality had never been created there would be no proper lubrication products to put into the bearings of the electric motors or the wheel bearings etc. 

 

Or put another way, if we had never discovered oil we would have no vehicles period and would be riding on horses or horses pulling a wagon as the train would not exist either, there also would be a severe lack of food for todays population and every tree would have been cut down to make fire. Not that I am claiming the world as it is, is a perfect place as its anything but, just that it would look vastly different had oil never been discovered or the internal combustion engine. 

 

What are EV owners instead talking about, well I imagine around here at the moment as the temps are due to dip down to -31f and its -54.4f at this moment in some places in the Yukon, probably having severe range anxiety and wondering why the fak did they ever get talked into buying an EV by that sales guy 

[Atlas]

9 minutes ago, Chuck FB said:

 

There is an amusing irony to your comment, that if it were not for the many ice engines that build and work in the mines that produce the minerals for not only the batteries chemistry but the steel and aluminum and don't forget the plastics and tires that are made from petroleum products and the ice trucks that haul the raw materials to processing and the finished products to the factory that builds the EV's and the ice trucks that transport the EV's to the dealerships and all the ice equipment involved with creating the electric grid that allows locations for an EV to charge, there would be no EV's. And although it may seem like a small thing, if the greases and oils of todays quality had never been created there would be no proper lubrication products to put into the bearings of the electric motors or the wheel bearings etc. 

 

Or put another way, if we had never discovered oil we would have no vehicles period and would be riding on horses or horses pulling a wagon as the train would not exist either, there also would be a severe lack of food for todays population and every tree would have been cut down to make fire. Not that I am claiming the world as it is, is a perfect place as its anything but, just that it would look vastly different had oil never been discovered or the internal combustion engine. 

 

What are EV owners instead talking about, well I imagine around here at the moment as the temps are due to dip down to -31f and its -54.4f at this moment in some places in the Yukon, probably having severe range anxiety and wondering why the fak did they ever get talked into buying an EV by that sales guy 

 

I was hoping for the Miranda Priestly (Devil Wears Prada), "fashion rules you" -speech and you nailed it.

[customboss]

10 hours ago, Chuck FB said:

 

I will admit my thoughts did not align well to the actual video nor were they meant to as I strayed LOL, it was just a thought based on engine material and power output and oil viscosity which also would or could lean into the chemistry of the oil as per its bearing protective properties or lack of depending on the oil being utilized. 

 

In saying that as Grumpy Bear pointed to the differences in chemistry of the various oils tested in that video, is it possible that in an actual real world scenario of an engines use that the oils tested and their relative perceived ranking, could look somewhat different when used in that turbo engine that is turning at relatively low rpm in a high gear and loaded down if driving relatively fast down the freeway hour after hour with a pickup that is not exactly aerodynamic and does require a fair demand from the engine to sustain that pace. Not to claim that would be the outcome but for example the oil with the somewhat higher viscosity and/or the higher level of some anti wear ( not anti friction necessarily ) additives that may help protect the bearing surfaces through the cold start cycles and off idle jack rabbit launches from the lights. A very different engine rpm loading scenario and use than the SBC that puts out its power at high rpm and wear metals being generated from a soft flat tappet cam which these newer engines don't have that type of flat tappet loading. 

 

Put another way yet, how much do some of the test results based off of short term engine dyno runs corollate to the use the average vehicles engine actually experiences through its life. Of course some of the test results shown were lab stress tests not related to this dyno test, just standardized tests used to test oil viscosity break down and so forth. After all there must be a reason why oil manufactures test oil in their planned application and be that a highway tractor for long term evaluation or passenger vehicles to prove what was lab tested and formulated, does actually work outside of the lab. 

If you have a SBC with a 4 barrel and setup for some performance the correlation is good. 

[customboss]

10 hours ago, Atlas said:

You know what's great about EV's?

 

Nobody argues about stupid **** like which oil to use. Not that the chemistry behind oil and additives isn't important, but eliminating a conventional combustion engine and hydraulic transmission really does reduce the complexity (and related arguing).

Well the coolant is very important. Luckily coolant is easy. 
 

Grease in wheel bearings very important. 
 

Devil wears Prada!

[Chuck FB]

3 minutes ago, customboss said:

If you have a SBC with a 4 barrel and setup for some performance the correlation is good. 

 

My train of thinking as per a different load from the test is low engine rpm but under high torque load. A situation that these newer gas turbo engines are very good at producing but that also means a higher fuel load at low speed and potentially higher heat and I presume closer to the left side of the Stribeck curve vs a high revving engine putting out similar torque at high rpm with an oil pump that is pumping more volume of oil at those high rpm but same torque loads. Similar in a sense to diesel engines in a highway tractor that have the ability to put out high torque at low engine speed but in so doing if too slow will damage themselves ( pound themselves to pieces ) and as you know the egt's will climb too high also. 

 

Another words the oil has to try to protect ( keep the crank from touching the bearings ) near to that type of load which I imagine is part of the reason most heavy diesels over a number of years specify a 40 grade or at least a 30 grade that isn't dumbed down like Dexos and other schemes have done to a thinner viscosity. 

 

Now non turbo gas engines, they need to rev to produce both the hp and torque combined to pull the load up a grade for example so they wouldn't have that same ability to turn slow and put the same loading on the bearings. 

 

Like I said, my thought process but its not like I am an engineer to make any claims about what I trying to explain here but attempting to show a different type of engine loading vs the test that was conducted. Now if a turbo gas engine was placed on the dyno and it had a long overhead cam drive chain as well and the engine made to struggle with a load at low engine speed, that would be an interesting test of what various oils would look like at the end of such a test.